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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/6/2009 6:52:00 AM

MichiganHeadmast

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False dichotomy.

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/6/2009 7:06:52 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

If societies do not exist, then I am not understanding the point of sharing ideas and coming together to solve common problems.

It's called enlightened self interest.

Hey, it's meee... and I can't get myself to go away...

Kim

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/6/2009 8:56:50 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Can order and liberty not be combined and not be chaos ?

In practice, there is a balance between order and liberty - I suppose the question is one of which of the two takes precedence?

there is a rumor that the absolute end of the dollar will happen 6 months from yesterday. (I will try to find the link) that puts us at July 4th-ish. the current generation has no clue as to how things go in a depression or a war. so when we face conditions of no food in the stores, and such, there will be chaos. the fed has ordered 20k US troops to be on US streets.

so we will see something in the order of chaos. I dont think we are out of the woods until 2013.

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/7/2009 12:51:03 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Another is the relative stability and health of a society.

I fully agree with this statement. In more chaotic times, people look to order and more inclined to accept outside management. One example is the German Foreign Minister's recent statement: "England is the most liberal (in economic terms) country on earth".....it's no coincidence that our modern history has been more stable than the continental Europeans' history.

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/7/2009 3:13:37 PM

Vendaval

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NG, do you think that the modern stability of England is due in part to the physical separation from the rest of Europe?

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/7/2009 7:08:08 PM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

False dichotomy.

I guess you can take comments either way....is the firm rule of law contrary to or eliminate the possibility of freedom?
I'm really open and would welcome elaboration and opinion.

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/7/2009 7:43:41 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
I guess you can take comments either way....is the firm rule of law contrary to or eliminate the possibility of freedom?
I'm really open and would welcome elaboration and opinion.

No, it can mean freedom from self.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 1/7/2009 7:44:11 PM >

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/11/2009 4:56:05 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

NG, do you think that the modern stability of England is due in part to the physical separation from the rest of Europe?

Absolutely - geography has everything to do with it. You can trace England's prosperity back to shifts in salt levels in the North Sea. Being an island and the associated opportunities for water transport, gave us a huge trade advantage during the industrial revolution, too. There's the English channel acting as a defence mechanism, too. Even the principles of tolerance, limited monarchy and the modern day rule of law can be traced back to trade opportunities afforded by our geography.

Edited to add: the politics of a nation then flows from these opportunities. Locke's 'freedom to chase individual business initiatives' at a time of growing merchant influence, and this has become a mainstay of English politics. The unerring belief in liberal economics and free trade marks us out from contintental Europeans.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 1/11/2009 5:00:20 AM >

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RE: Order and Liberty - 1/11/2009 6:28:17 AM

XNakisisaX

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History tells us that both are relative. The ones that have defined both, define them on their terms and we're still seeing the effects that they don't have a clue about either.

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