Domme/sub relationship difficulties (Full Version)

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harpomrx -> Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 6:50:53 PM)

I'm going through some difficulties, and I'm hoping somebody can help me through the moment.

I've been seeing Miss for about five months now. We live three hours apart and she has no transportation, so I'm the one who must do the driving - which I do gladly, even though it can get extremely tiring.

On her profile, Miss made an issue of having recently tested negative for all STDs; I hadn't been tested recently, but had no reason to believe there was any problem, and promised to get tested if she wanted. She accepted my statement of my recent history and we moved on.

At Miss's insistance, we went through extensive discussions of our likes and dislikes and of hard and soft limits, using several pages of checklists. I felt more comfortable discussing these things with her than I have with anybody else in my life, and she expressed the same sentiment. Things seemed to me to be going very well. Practically from the start, we had extremely open communication (or so I thought). And not just with bdsm - we were growing very close, and we both felt strong compatibility and affection.

Miss gave every indication of having a lot of bdsm experience. She spoke about a lot of activities authoritatively, and she spoke about what she expected of a sub in the same way. I have tried to follow her lead and be the kind of sub she wants - or at least I thought that's what I was trying to do.

I have grown to care for her a great deal, and she says she cares for me. The word "love" has been used meaningfully on both sides.

The first speed bump occured when we did a rather light session - she just tied me lightly to a chair and had me masturbate while watching one of my Femdom videos while she played with me. Then she had me lick her, through her panties, for ten minutes. I only found out later that this was her very first real session of any kind. Our previous time together was spent mostly talking and hugging and cuddling - all of which was wonderful. When she told me it had been her first session, I was surprised, but in no way upset. I thought, this is fine - we can grow together. In fact, how great!

It was a couple of weeks later, after some more cuddling and hugging that she tearfully told me she had herpes, and had been keeping it a secret from me. She was sobbing, clearly ashamed - I just held her and reassured her - I saw no reason to respond any other way. She wept and said that most men would be furious and throw her out - I just held her tighter. If I've got it I've got it and no amount of recrimination is going to change that. I said that obviously it was wrong of her to withold that information, but let's keep going, and I'll get tested and educate myself, and we'll move on.

A couple days later, we were talking; I should mention that she always has encouraged me to be honest. So I honestly told her that sometimes I get frustrated and cranky when I've driven hours to see her, have to drive hours home, and that that seems to go unnoticed - she uses our time as casually as if I had just driven a couple of blocks. I was quick to add that this was my problem, and that I would have to deal with it. She seemed okay with that. She was at my place at the time, and I was facing a three hour drive to take her home, followed by a three hour drive back to my place.

On the trip we talked a great deal more. It seemed to me open and honest communication.

The next night we were chatting online when she started to lash out at me, accusing me of being just a player and not a "true" sub, and accusing me of acting badly just to get her to punish me (she has never actually punished me, except verbally), of trying to train her to be the Domme of my fantasies, rather than accepting her natural Dominance over me - and of many other things as well. I was numb - I was completely blindsided.

I called so that we could talk on the phone instead of through instant messages, and she continued to lash out at me.

(Frankly, I think this was the influence of male doms she had just been consulting online - she sounded like a different person, like a male dom. I should add that, fair or not, I have a strong prejudice against male doms; most of them seem to me to be just assholes, plain and simple. In fact, she was aware of my prejudice - I made it plain when we were discussing hard limits. Seeing a woman subservient to a man is a very strong limit for me. She had placed herself in a sub position online, she said, just to experience what she though I should be going through. However, early on in the relationship I said that if she did anything outside our relationship, as far as I was concerned it was her business - but I really didn't want to hear about it. Bottom line - she seemed to want to treat me in the manner a male dom treats a sub he really doesn't give a shit about.)

Anway, she has now put me on a two week exile, during which time I have been instructed to get in touch with other subs to find out how a "true" sub should act. Hence this letter. I was also instructed to decide once and for all if I'm going to be her sub, or if all I really want is for her to do sessions with me - which she doesn't want.

I am still trying to figure out how I fucked up in her eyes. I thought we were building a very strong personal relationship, of which bdsm was one beautiful aspect.

And I am trying to adjust to the strong liklihood that I now carry an STD.

I truly care for this woman - and that's my real dilemma.

Doesn't anybody have any thoughts?




IrishMist -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 6:56:36 PM)

Oh boy...not sure you want my advice...but I will give it anyway

She lied to you...not only about having no experience, but also about not having any diseases. Now granted, herpes is not that bad, and it's treatable...but the fact still remains that she lied. I would now be wondering what ELSE she lied about.

Her attitude change could be a result of her feeling guilty for lying to you...she would rather place the blame on you, then take the responsibility herself. That's just my opinion though.

As to your feelings for her. Well, that is something only you and she can work out. Talk to her, let her know ...be honest...be open...if you are angry about her lying to you, say so...but you need to sit down and discuss this with her.




camigirl -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 7:16:52 PM)

quote:

Bottom line - she seemed to want to treat me in the manner a male dom treats a sub he really doesn't give a shit about.)


No offense but, it sounds as if she has treated you this way right from the begining.
I would have been gone with the first lie and i consider myself a "true submissive".

Best wishes,
camigirl




AAkasha -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 7:49:18 PM)

By chance did you go visit a pro femdom with her?

Just curious.

Akasha




Sensualips -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 9:10:43 PM)

I got that too Aakasha. It is a he said, she said!




Sensualips -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 9:18:03 PM)

For the record, it is extremely unlikley you contracted herpes from licking her through panties and cuddling. She needs to educate herself about this so she can accurately share information with her partner(s) and let them make an informed choice. And if you plan to continue with her, you will need to educate yourself as well.

Your comments about male doms are an over generalization, but not really the issue here.

If you truly care for her as you say, you should wait your two weeks and then talk with her. And then talk some more.




seaturtle50 -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/3/2006 11:42:25 PM)

Hello,

Yes, I do have some thoughts. Let me first advise that I am a complete novice sub and brand new to Cm.

I noticed the following thread within your post.

quote:

which I do gladly, even though it can get extremely tiring


quote:

So I honestly told her that sometimes I get frustrated and cranky when I've driven hours to see her, have to drive hours home, and that that seems to go unnoticed - she uses our time as casually as if I had just driven a couple of blocks.


quote:

She seemed okay with that. She was at my place at the time, and I was facing a three hour drive to take her home, followed by a three hour drive back to my place.


Are you certain that you are being honest with yourself about the drive time and the feelings this causes you? Gladly? To me it seems as though you want to not have a problem with it, but that it in fact it is causing a resentment to build within you. You might want to take a hard look at if you are in fact willing to do the driving, willing to be in a LD relationship at all.

You also state:
quote:

she seemed to want to treat me in the manner a male dom treats a sub he really doesn't give a shit about.


This really stands out to me. I have done a tremendous amount of sales training and mentoring in my career life, and never cease to be amazed when one will ask me for my guidance and then within weeks actually be dictating to me on things like where they are at, and what they need, and things they don't need. I always smile, while laughing inside.

If that is the case, I wonder why they asked me for my time and assistance in the first place. Seems to me that when I meet the Domme that I may choose to surrender myself to, I will be the LAST person to begin (at any point) to dictate to her the why's and how's of our relationship. I can do that now without a Domme.

Speaking only for myself, I am seeking her kind and abundant influence in my life. Because of a need that i carry within myself. She, by the very nature that she is a divine woman (and I am not) is uniquely qualified to treat me in whatever fashion she may choose. It is not mine to "guide" her in this endeavor. Yes, I suppose that I shall meet some Dommes where we simply are not compatible, and I will always be honest and up front with that, but I will not then be saying the other things that you say in your post, like "caring for her a great deal" and "using the "love" word freely.

quote:

I have tried to follow her lead and be the kind of sub she wants


Hmmmm, Yoda said it best, Do or Do Not ... There is no Try! I would suggest that you either surrender to her will, and get your focus onto how grateful you are that she found you and is in your life, or you do not. If I were in your place I would be focused on how much I enjoy the opportunity to enjoy the quiet time of the drive, and how much I love driving itself, rather than how much I am "suffering" because I am so gracious and why doesn’t she acknowledge that? (And "play" harder as a reward?)

I do need to say one more thing. This is from the man in me, and not the sub. I think the fact that you would openly discuss something like your Domme/Lovers/Wife/GF's sexual medical issues is highly questionable. (Just edited this part of my post out of a desire to be kind). In my humble opinion you may wish to think about editing that post and pray that she did not in fact see it before you do. I simply cannot understand ones motivation in posting such things in a public forum. This, IMHO is not a very loving way to love someone.

That said - best of luck to you.

m







harpomrx -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 4:39:06 AM)

Akasha,

Funny you should mention it. This all happened after a trip to a Pro Domme who i had been to a couple of times as a client, and subsequently became friends with.

When it became clear that Miss had little real experience, I very tentatively ventured the idea of a trip to this pro, knowing the pro and how much she enjoyed sharing her expertise. I walked on eggs, because Miss had made it clear that she had little regard for pros and considered them prostitutes. To my great surprise, Miss agreed. I made the arrangements, set the whole thing up, and tried to keep the issue of money very discreet mostly because it cost me a lot, and Miss is at present very poor, and I didn't want to her to be offended by the amount being spent. I just wanted her to be happy about it, and to learn some confidence, which she said she wanted.

On the ride to the pro Miss asked how much it was costing me, and I said jokingly "none of your business" - because I didn't want to offend her with the extravagance of the day. Much later, she told me she was deeply insulted when I said that. If I had known at the time, I certainly would have told her, of course.

We spent over four hours with the pro, and then all went out to dinner together. I kept asking Miss if she felt that it was a good day, and she said yes, she enjoyed herself and she learned a lot. I said that it was certainly a fantasy come true for me, since I frequently fantasize about more than one Domme working on me (even though the day really didn't play out much like any of my fantasies) - I guess I was just trying to reassure her that I had had a good time too.

Only later did Miss tell me that she had been really terrified of the whole day and had almost called it off several times the previous week. She accused me of setting the whole thing up just to satisfy my own fantasies - that was one of the things she brought up when she exiled me, saying that I was trying to train her, rather than vice-versa, and that since the beginning I was getting what I wanted, but she wasn't. I was baffled. If there's truth in her accusation, well, from my point of view, I was getting mixed signals at best from her. She always asked me to be honest about what I wanted, and so I told her. I don't think I ever demanded, or even asked - though a couple of times I begged, because she was very clear that she enjoyed seeing me beg.

Before the exile, after the session, Miss said that she needed to find a Female Domme to correspond with. I offered the pro's email address, and Miss told me to email her and ask if I could forward the email address; this I did. In the meantime, Miss seems to have consulted these male doms, who, I suspect, told her that I was getting mine while she wasn't getting hers, etc. etc. But then again, I have to say that might be my prejudice against male doms at work.

So that's more of the story. I remain deeply unsure of where I stand and what's going on.

Akasha, thanks for your interest. I'm a fan of your writing.

harpo




MHOO314 -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 5:12:45 AM)

It appears that both of you have chosesn to air your issues between you here on the boards---IMHO, very immature on both of your parts--it is, as has been stated a he said, she said--I withhold any advice or comment other than grow up both of you, deal with the issues between you, not here.




FTopinMichigan -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 5:52:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

By chance did you go visit a pro femdom with her?


Very astute Akasha! I was wondering myself, reading the OP, and it's confirmed in a later postings.

To the OP...you've discovered that this women is not only inexperienced (in itself, not necessarily a bad thing), but lied about it (which IS bad). She also VERY blatantly lied about her contagious sexually transmittable disease. How much more do you want to find out, "after" the fact?

If I were in a situation, such as yours, I would have to consider the above. Now, that goes back to the "forgiveness" thread. I couldn't forgive "these" types of lies, as they are only the tip of the iceberg, as I see it.

Her inexperience is surely showing, based on her behaviors. To deal with this, the lies, the distance, and now the two weeks of banishment....it's your choice. Good luck with it all, and be sure to make the best decision...for you!

And btw...her story is somewhat different than yours, so it's a bit obvious that you two are NOT on the same page with much of your relationship.

K




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 6:56:18 AM)

I think she's new, inexperienced, scared and in over her head.

I think you need to be more confident in yourself and find a stable partner who can form a solid relationship with you.




cloudboy -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 7:25:50 AM)


I think you have a problem when one party in the relationship dictates that "YOU ARE THE ENTIRE PROBLEM." She does not really even know you, and yet she has declared, "you are just a player, not a real sub." Layer this on top of:

1. You do the driving
2. You paid for the pro dom adventure
3. You didn't cut her loose after she lied about "no STDs."

Claiming you are not a "real sub" is lowest and sometimes most baseless accuasation a DOM can level. Throwing that TRUMP CARD (I am the DOM you are the sub, but not a real sub) during a conflict negotiation is to me the definition of unfair fighting and problem avoidance. A D/S relationship is the same as any other, problems and conflicts need to be resolved, and in the D/s realm, this needs to happen BEFORE power is exchanged. Also, the power exchange should not be used as unfair leverage to disregard the sub's concerns during a conflict.

As to whether you are a "real" sub or not, it doesn't seem like she's spent enough quality time with you to have leveled this kind of pronouncement. Also, this is a very general statement, and so your exile to me looks like it lacks a constructive purpose. The constructive things you could work on, as I see them here are:

1. Will you gladly do the driving or not?
2. Can you accept her with Herpes? If so, how will you be safe and physical with one another?
3. Can you build a trusting relationship?

What kind of "sub" you are seems rather meaningless until you can get these nuts and bolts straightened out. And remember, being a sub does not mean being a doormat and accepting everything from the DOM b/c "that's true power exchange." No, true power exchange can only occur when you as the sub trust and respect your DOM and thereafter feel enthusiastic in your submission. Preferably the enthusiasm should extend beyond the straight kink aspects of the relationship.

Lastly, cutting all contact in the midst of relationship problems strikes me as petulant, immature, cruel, and destructive. I suppose for some this would be a turn on, but for me, it would just be HELL.




MHOO314 -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 7:45:38 AM)

I said earlier I would withhold comment--but I am with cloudboy--lying about STD I so dont tolerate--she would be gone--no looking back.




cloudboy -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 9:11:40 AM)


O, and BTW, you kinda look like Harpo Marx.




LadyMorgynn -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 9:35:22 AM)

After reading both your posts very carefully, I think you BOTH need to break it off, for different reasons, and yours more compelling and urgent. You do NOT need a Mistress who lies to you (especially about something as significant as STDs for heavens' sake! I mean... if THAT is not important enough for her to be honest about it, what IS?). You, as a submissive, need to have a Mistredss you can trust, in many levels. You are, after all, putting your safety... maybe even literally your life, depending on what you're into.... in her hands. Certainly your health and well being, which she has already shown a casual disregard for, in withholding such crucial information as having herpes until after it may be too late (hello? ever hear of "consensual"? what's consensual about that? at least you should have had the *choice* to participate). Aside from that, you also need someone who will appreciate you, and the little touches you like to add to service. Some Dommes (I'm one of them) like it when a submissive takes some initiative to please her. Some Dommes don't. On the flip sided, not all subs can or will take such initiative.

So you need a Mistress whom you can trust and who appreciates you, and she needs a slave who will be obedient to her every word quite literally, and who besides has such low limits (or low standards, depending on how you look at it) that he will submit to a Mistress who has issues with integrity and self-esteem and requires blind obedience without regard to trust issues.

Personally, and having read both sides, and taking in to account that each of you is seeing the issue only from one side... even so, I wouldn't allow any slave of mine within ten miles of this woman!




littleone35 -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 10:34:14 AM)

She did lie to you. And i hate the label a "true" anything, that means different things to different people. How can you tell if she is a true Domme why don't you ask her that question.

I realize you care for her and like Irish said herpes is treatable but you will always have it you can't get rid of it. You have to figure out if you can deal with this.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you can find what works for you.

littleone




cloudboy -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 11:22:08 AM)


>She did lie to you.<

Its not clear that the DOM "lied" here, but she was less than forthright (though she did come clean.) The Dom's fears of rejection are quite understandable. Rather than castigate her for lying, I think its best to work the issue and build trust going forward. If you cannot work the issue and build trust after a conflict, then the relationship is inherently doomed. But, if you can overcome a hardship, then a strong relationship might is possible.

What cannot be underestimated here is the hardship of a long distance relationship. Investing emotionally in a distant person is a guaranteed roller coaster ride of loneliness and ecstacy. The day to day REALITY of such relations is SEPARATION without intimate access to each other. So, this distance and lack of lover's access adds an exponential aggravation factor to all relational "issues" ontop of the continuing no/access to the beloved (or in this case, potential beloved.)

If I were to point any fingers here, I would not point at the sub or DOM, I would point at the geographical distance between them. If these two lived within a five mile radius of one another, would they be having any of these problems at all? I say, maybe not. One thing is forsure, instead of posting here about their problems, they'd be face to face talking about them.

Cut'em some slack. This shit is HARD.




LadyMorgynn -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 11:37:54 AM)

There are lies of omission. Just as misleading, and it's really the same thing, because what it boils down to is TRUST. A submissive needs to be able to trust his Mistress to take care of him, to watch out for his best interests, his well-being. This is as true in "play" and scening as it is in 24/7. She HID from him her novice status as Domme... until after. She HID from him her distaste in going to a pro Domme... until after. She HID from him the fact that she had herpes, for God's sake! ...until AFTER. This is NOT a responsible person to be with, whether playing or otherwise. She cannot be TRUSTED!

You speak of distance. Even more, a long-distance relationship has to be based on open communication, which in turn has its basis in honesty and TRUST. I think it's been clearly established that this woman is capable of neither.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


>She did lie to you.<

Its not clear that the DOM "lied" here, but she was less than forthright (though she did come clean.) The Dom's fears of rejection are quite understandable. Rather than castigate her for lying, I think its best to work the issue and build trust going forward. If you cannot work the issue and build trust after a conflict, then the relationship is inherently doomed. But, if you can overcome a hardship, then a strong relationship might is possible.

Cut'em some slack. This shit is HARD.





RumpusParable -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 11:58:30 AM)

I've read both your posts and am giving my responsed separately:

I think you should have expressed your own desires more clearly and I would've left at the dishonesty regarding STDs.

In your post I do sense a feeling of only limited interest in submission to her, and that may well be where some of the problem lies. It is difficult to dominate someone who wishes to only submit to a certain extent. Not saying your desires are wrong, but that it can be hard for someone else to work with or to find the right match.

She has repeatedly not been honest and/or direct about some very big and some little things. This doesn't imply good things for the future.

80-90% of the population has one or both of the herpes simplex strains, not telling at first in a relationship that one gets outbreaks is understandable. not telling until *after* sexual contact is unacceptable, to me.

she has not been upfront about her experience level. again not a big issue if known but she didn't tell you until after you'd begun play.

she has not been direct and open with her responses and feelings about what were apparently big issues to her. to me, had she expressed problems as they occurred and/or future worries, they could be dealt with... however, acting as though things are fine and then *later* blowing up is a maturity issue in my eyes. again, it's understandable that someone from time to time would look back on something and feel not as okay or outright upset with it later and wish to address that -but i get the feeling that she covers up, lets it build up and then explodes.

personally, I'd not continue this relationship.




RiotGirl -> RE: Domme/sub relationship difficulties (1/4/2006 12:14:41 PM)

quote:

It appears that both of you have chosesn to air your issues between you here on the boards---IMHO, very immature on both of your parts--it is, as has been stated a he said, she said--I withhold any advice or comment other than grow up both of you, deal with the issues between you, not here.


i seem to be missing "her" posts?




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