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Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 4:03:26 AM

variation30

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc

How long do you think it'll be before there is a law against filming cops.

I've always said that if there is any group of individuals who should be denied the ability to own and carry firearms it is our...officers of the law. most people think I am kidding when I say this, but I am quite serious.

I'm curious how many people here support having one agency with a monopoly on dispute resolution and the use of force. imagine it like this, you and five other people are stranded on a desert island. would you ever suggest that you give all of the weapons and the ability to justly use those weapons to one individual? would you also make that individual the final arbiter of all disputes (including disputes involving that officer of the law)? if you think the rampant abuses visited upon the citizenry by those who claim to protect it are evidence enough that this system is flawed, what would you propose as an alternative?

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 4:17:33 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
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From: London, Ontario
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There is no law to prevent filming right now but they do dislike being filmed.

What cops for get is that they work for their community through city/governement taxes not for the governement itself.

These goings ons when officers think they are above the law is one of the main reasons for a policing of the police through citizen action committees.

This is not and not the last vid of law officers abusing powers and I can only wish at every incident there is always someone there with access to a cam, even if it is just a shakey cellphone.

(in reply to variation30)

Post #: 2

RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 4:29:54 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc

How long do you think it'll be before there is a law against filming cops.

I've always said that if there is any group of individuals who should be denied the ability to own and carry firearms it is our...officers of the law. most people think I am kidding when I say this, but I am quite serious.

I'm curious how many people here support having one agency with a monopoly on dispute resolution and the use of force. imagine it like this, you and five other people are stranded on a desert island. would you ever suggest that you give all of the weapons and the ability to justly use those weapons to one individual? would you also make that individual the final arbiter of all disputes (including disputes involving that officer of the law)? if you think the rampant abuses visited upon the citizenry by those who claim to protect it are evidence enough that this system is flawed, what would you propose as an alternative?

This shooting of an unarmed man appears to be the use of extreme force, way over the top and, frankly, I don't see how in this instance deadly force was required.
However, you propose taking weapons away from law enforcement. Uh Huh...and...who is going to protect people on the streets, in their homes, schools, banks, shopping malls, and on and on...from criminals who, in many cased are better armed that the cop on the beat? I guess you have never been on a NYC subway at 1:00 A.M going home from a night out and breathing that sigh of relief seeing two cops in the car you just entered. It's not a nice warm fuzzy world out there...there are people who kill for you sneakers..for your jacket,or because you wore a T shirt with a message they disagreed with...aside from the really serious criminals peddling drugs.

Innocent people have been killed by out of control law enforcement officers with clubs in a cave 4,000 years ago and in the streets of NYC. According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF) and 140 police officers have died in the line of duty in the United States in 2008 and 181 in 2007. I now live in the suburbs of Philly and it's almost like open season on cops here. Somehow, I don't remember the dozens of blogs
attacking the ruthless killers of these men and women who protect us with their lives in a work place often as dangerous as Iraq...but so many about the unfair treatment of criminals.

The young man killed in the video is a horrible incident that is being addressed. However, I believe the people who ride the BART everyday would not want guns taken away from police officers and actually would not mind seeing a cop in every car with a 9mm hanging from his belt.

percent reduction from the 2007 figure of 181

(in reply to variation30)

Post #: 3

RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 4:43:50 AM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF) and 140 police officers have died in the line of duty in the United States in 2008 and 181 in 2007

Most of those officers died in traffic accidents, not homicides.

quote:

Somehow, I don't remember the dozens of blogs
attacking the ruthless killers of these men and women who protect us with their lives in a work place often as dangerous as Iraq...but so many about the unfair treatment of criminals.

As dangerous as Iraq? Are you kidding? Driving a cab is more dangerous than being a police officer. A lot of jobs are more dangerous than being a police officer. It's also outright propaganda that common street criminals are better armed than cops. Criminals don't carry around machine guns when they are robbing a convenient store. Only an idiotic criminal with a wish to get caught would be walking the streets with an assault rifle.

While I don't agree with the OP's argument, please spare me the 'police officers are street warriors holding back the barbarians' macho nonsense. Police officers enforce laws and investigate crimes; that's their main duty. For the most part, they show up after the crime has been committed. You're responsible for your own safety

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 4:45:39 AM

blacksword404

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It's always ok when it's them. Then one day you realize you are them.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 5:29:00 AM

housesub4you

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I thought Crab Fishing was the Deadliest Job????? Dam TV lied to me again

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 1/7/2009 6:21:22 AM >

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 5:54:31 AM

TNstepsout

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Perspective please people. Take guns away from police? Are you kidding? I'll take my chances with the cops (even stupid ones) over the gang bangers and thugs any day.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 5:56:28 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

However, you propose taking weapons away from law enforcement.

I'd take the guns away in a heartbeat. Have yet to meet the cop who is actually competent with a firearm (most are doing good if they can tell which end is the business end).

Besides, how much firepower is really necessary to sit around drinking coffee and munching on doughnuts?

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 6:37:27 AM

VirginPotty

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From: Virginville
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I can't view the video at this time so I'm responding "blindly".
I can't say I'm surprised a citizen was murdered by a cop but I would never advocate taking the guns away from cops. They're job is to protect us. Remember, cops are human too, you have good, you have bad and the media ALWAYS highlights the bad, leaving the good in the background 'cause the public loves the hype. I work w/them regularly and I can honestly say the majority of them I'd trust w/my life. On the flip side, there's small percentage I wouldn't trust but thankfully I don't see them much but just because they're out there doesn't mean I'm going to have negative thoughts about cops as a whole. I applaud the police.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 6:40:33 AM

wulfgarw

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$5 says the whole incident gets swept under the rug. Probably to the tune of 'he had a weapon" or something similar. Courts always cover cops, no matter how far in the wrong they are. This is one of the reasons I have a CCW, carry everywhere I legally can, and quietly go the other way when I see the JackBoot Thugs. The only police officer I have ever trusted retired a couple years back.

And variation30, there already been many instances of people being harrassed, arrested and physically harmed for filming police, anything from a ordinary traffic stop to a felony no-knock warrants (don't get me started on those... the no knock warrants that is) Don't give them the idea of putting anti-filming laws into code (they'll call it anti counter surveillance and make it punishable under the Patriot Act) and letting JBT's run amok.

Which actually begs the question... has there ever been a incidence of vindicated self-defence against a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO)?

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 6:49:03 AM

colouredin

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I think that US policeman have to do something to increase respect for them or else they are a rather pointless entity.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:03:42 AM

MichiganHeadmast

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Former cop (18 years, including 9 years with a city of over one million). And I agree, cop is NOT nearly the most dangerous job. Night 7-11 clerk can be much more hazardous.

As far as disarming the cops, ain't ever, ever gonna happen. Even the most extremely idealistic utopian society will have to have its cadre of armed thugs to implement their lofty ideals (always, always happens).

As a small-"l" libertarian, I say arm everyone. The cops will also be armed as a matter of course, since you don't get less rights, just more accountability. And go back to the elected sheriffs and constables of yore (wherever yore is) and a few deputies and an occasional posse (that's p-O-s-s-E).

And yes, "everyone" includes ex-felons. If they can't be trusted to carry, they should still be in jail. Infants and mental incompetents are another story.

(in reply to variation30)

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:11:27 AM

corysub

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Welcome to Maybery!...Yep, just like the wise sherrif Andy took Barney's bullets away so he didn't hurt anyone, some people here would rather have a disarmed police to protect them, their families and their property. I don't think so!
In the real world, unfortunately, most of us live in areas where there would be absolute chaos and vigilantism were it not for well trained law enforcement. I don't know what police department you have in your area, but most of the cops I know from guys on the beat to Captains and detectives take weapon training courses and target practice frequently.In fact, I think it's compulsury. These are not guys who work in the countryside clearing cows off the road for the once an hour vehicle or hides around a curve at a speed trap...I'm talking about cops working the streets of Philly, NYC, LA as well as smaller towns where an innocent traffic violation could turn out to be deadly. I have a nephew on the force who works in the Bronx and his wife and my sister don't sleep when he is on duty wondering if he will be making it home. And no one addresses the other not insignificant issue in this theortical excercise...what happens to the weapons in the hands of thugs? Are they going to be legislated away too and turned in to authorities? Sure! Ah, the sweetness of innocence....such a precious attribute in children...so ludicrous in adults.
Someone mentioned taxi cab drivers being a dangerous job...and that's very true I don't get the point, however? Fireman have dangerous jobs too, and people used to throw garbage cans at the trucks going through areas of Manhattan as they drove to save lives in fires....It's a dangerous world inhabited by very dangerous people...we need more police...not a disarmed "security guard".

It's obviously never going to happen, but if you ever saw a time when weapons were taken away from the police you would see the country armed to the teeth with pistols. Why do you think it was called the "wild west"...because of its natural beauty? There was no law so people made their own law and protected themselves.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:13:33 AM

Rule

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I agree.

(in reply to MichiganHeadmast)

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:18:54 AM

MichiganHeadmast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfgarw

Which actually begs the question... has there ever been a incidence of vindicated self-defence against a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO)?

Randy Weaver.

(And he is NOT my nominee for upstanding citizen award, but he was right that time)

Edited to fix quotation.

< Message edited by MichiganHeadmast -- 1/7/2009 7:19:31 AM >

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:23:30 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Someone mentioned taxi cab drivers being a dangerous job...and that's very true I don't get the point, however? Fireman have dangerous jobs too, and people used to throw garbage cans at the trucks going through areas of Manhattan as they drove to save lives in fires....It's a dangerous world inhabited by very dangerous people...we need more police...not a disarmed "security guard".

Um, the point is that you said that some police officers work in areas more dangerous than Iraq. Of course that's absolutely ridiculous. You than went on to list the number of occupational deaths among police officers in 2007 and 2008, which I pointed out were mostly the result of traffic accidents. You also repeated the often repeated, bogus claim that police officers are frequently outgunned by criminals. Anyone reading the local papers knows that's not true. Occasionally police officers run into someone with more firepower; but it's not often. It's a claim that has been made for decades, and it generally procedes a request for more funding. I never made the claim that police officers should be disarmed; I was just pointing out that your assertions were wrong.

(in reply to corysub)

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 7:58:30 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

.
However, you propose taking weapons away from law enforcement. Uh Huh...and...who is going to protect people on the streets, in their homes, schools, banks, shopping malls, and on and on...from criminals who, in many cased are better armed that the cop on the beat?

Newsflash, Cory - it is NOT the job of the police to Protect Citizenry From Crime. There was a Very recent thread on this particular subject where it was pointed out (again, as it's been done several times in the past) that the cops' actual job is to file a friggin report after the fact - and maybe, if they're lucky and actually on the ball for a change, catch the alleged perp.

Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "protect" us. Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "serve" us. They're not. They're around to be official bully boys, minor (and usually rather unctious) officials, and to help the statisticians keep records.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 8:02:39 AM

kittinSol

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I agree, peach. The police is there to protect the state, its officials, and its laws. Individual citizens sometimes benefit from their investigative powers after they've been victims of a crime - certainly, the cops aren't involved in much prevention work. Overall, I find the police absolutely terrifying.

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RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 8:12:44 AM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
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How long do you think it'll be before there is a law against filming cops.

I've always said that if there is any group of individuals who should be denied the ability to own and carry firearms it is our...officers of the law. most people think I am kidding when I say this, but I am quite serious.

I'm curious how many people here support having one agency with a monopoly on dispute resolution and the use of force. imagine it like this, you and five other people are stranded on a desert island. would you ever suggest that you give all of the weapons and the ability to justly use those weapons to one individual? would you also make that individual the final arbiter of all disputes (including disputes involving that officer of the law)? if you think the rampant abuses visited upon the citizenry by those who claim to protect it are evidence enough that this system is flawed, what would you propose as an alternative?

What a LOAD of CACA!

MURDERED? He was struggling against the police, THIS was in OAKLAND Ca, NOT backwater bama.

Take firearms away from police !
And you better check this little document called the Constitution, you cannot DENY any one their RIGHTS !
Good Lord!

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 19

RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) - 1/7/2009 8:17:26 AM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
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I don't know, I'm cool with cops, and have a few friends in law enforcement. Most haven't let their ego go to their head... some have, and I avoid them... like I avoid random other jackasses who have an unwarrented ego problem.

Apparently, it is the 'cool' thing to hate them, an attitude I see in this thread, and often among random friends of mine. Wierd. It's not like they are going to arrest you if they see you screwing around at a party you are both at.

A cop killed some one... no shit. You arm a large amount of people, and eventually someone's going to fuck up and do the wrong thing. I'm not saying it's right, but it's expected every now and again. The officer is an idiot, but not all are.

< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 1/7/2009 8:18:29 AM >

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