RE: Gaza/Israel situation (Full Version)

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MissSepphora1 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/24/2009 2:54:41 PM)

And you cannot in threat of your life admit anything the palis have done is wrong.  Although I could show you endless stories and pictures of suicide bombers blowing up ice cream shops and pizzarias and buses, you and owner59 would still state that it is their only recourse and their only weapon.

Well, that does not make it right.  Hamas's practice of attacking Israeli civilians has to stop.  It doesn't matter if what Israel did was right or wrong, what Hamas did was not right and has to stop.

I have 2 daughters.  If anyone raped them or molested them, I would kill them make no mistake about it.  Is murder right?  No.  Would I go to jail?  Yes.  But would I do it?   In a heartbeat and not think twice.

Sometimes what we do is not legally or morally right, but we do it to protect our own.  Did Israel have to go as far as they did?  Probably not.  Will Hamas think twice next time?  I sure as hell hope so.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

MissSephora, you twisted the words of both the fox and msnbc artcles to state that because Hamas had the capability to bring goods and aid through tunnels means that somehow, Israel's blockade is a-ok?

Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

Just admit that Israel have been wrong.  We've proved it quite substantially that any objective person can see it.  The UN have called Israel out on it, the devastation of Gaza was worse than they even expected.  Israel bombed UN compounds and illegally used white phosphorus shells on civilian areas.  What's so hard about admitting that some of Israel's actions have been wrong?



Owner59 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/24/2009 6:33:41 PM)

I think we should find reasons to make peace.

Not find reasons and excuses to perpetuate war.That`s way to easy.

Unless you`re willing to say you`d allow your land and water to be taken without a fight,don`t expect the Arabs to either.

The fight ain`t over and things aren`t settled.The sooner we acknowledge this the sooner we`ll be moving toward a resolution of this conflict.

To summarily dismiss the Arabs considerations and grievances is sure way to kill any chance at peace.

They aren`t going away no matter how much wishful thinking one does.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/25/2009 3:39:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think we should find reasons to make peace.

Not find reasons and excuses to perpetuate war.That`s way to easy.

Unless you`re willing to say you`d allow your land and water to be taken without a fight,don`t expect the Arabs to either.

The fight ain`t over and things aren`t settled.The sooner we acknowledge this the sooner we`ll be moving toward a resolution of this conflict.

To summarily dismiss the Arabs considerations and grievances is sure way to kill any chance at peace.

They aren`t going away no matter how much wishful thinking one does.


There are about 13 million jews left on the planet. if you don't want them to have a tiny bit of land smaller than New Jersey, where do you want them to go? Tell me.



dogyboy -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/25/2009 5:03:00 AM)

OK correct me if im wrong, but there is an UN Seciruty Council Resolution 242, from way back (it has been written in 1967) regarding the 6 day war...
The resolution is pretty clear it says that:
"Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

Israelis didn't withdraw from those lands untill today. So the Israelis are violating international law.
Also International Court of Justice gave Advisory Opinion concerning the wall arround occupied territories that Israelis had built.

“A. By fourteen votes to one,

The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law”;

- “B. By fourteen votes to one,

Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law; it is under an obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, to dismantle forthwith the structure therein situated, and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith all legislative and regulatory acts relating thereto, in accordance with paragraph 151 of this Opinion”;"

So that is another example that Israel is defying the international law.



Israelis killed thousands of civilians, including children. That is a crime against humanity, but i haven't heard any western leader calling it that way.
Ofc that would be different if the country doing those horrible crimes weren't an ally with the USA.
Hamas are lunatics and terrorist,with the crazy ideology and i am not gonna suport them either.

When I see the newest Gaza war I cannot pick a side to cheer,I can only see the hypocracy in international politics.



KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/25/2009 5:28:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

And you cannot in threat of your life admit anything the palis have done is wrong.  Although I could show you endless stories and pictures of suicide bombers blowing up ice cream shops and pizzarias and buses, you and owner59 would still state that it is their only recourse and their only weapon.

Well, that does not make it right.  Hamas's practice of attacking Israeli civilians has to stop.  It doesn't matter if what Israel did was right or wrong, what Hamas did was not right and has to stop.

I have 2 daughters.  If anyone raped them or molested them, I would kill them make no mistake about it.  Is murder right?  No.  Would I go to jail?  Yes.  But would I do it?   In a heartbeat and not think twice.

Sometimes what we do is not legally or morally right, but we do it to protect our own.  Did Israel have to go as far as they did?  Probably not.  Will Hamas think twice next time?  I sure as hell hope so.

[/QUOTE]

I have criticized Hamas, repeatidly.



KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/26/2009 2:58:19 PM)

Hey, you guys know the BBC right?  You know... the European left wing liberal anti-semetic news channel who are best buddies with Hamas.

They're refusing to air a charity appeal for Gaza, when most of the other UK channels are.  They say its to protect their impartiality.

Huh.

So I guess, the Americans here who screamed blue murder about how the BBC are this biased, anti-Israel news source just probably don't know what they're talking about.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5959&edition=1&ttl=20090126224954



FirmhandKY -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/28/2009 11:47:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

Hey, you guys know the BBC right?  You know... the European left wing liberal anti-semetic news channel who are best buddies with Hamas.

They're refusing to air a charity appeal for Gaza, when most of the other UK channels are.  They say its to protect their impartiality.

Huh.

So I guess, the Americans here who screamed blue murder about how the BBC are this biased, anti-Israel news source just probably don't know what they're talking about.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5959&edition=1&ttl=20090126224954


It's called "plausible deniability"

Here's a summary of how news photos and stories were either doctored or misrepresented in the Lebanon conflict in support of the Arab narrative, and to give Israel the blackest eye:

The Reuters Photo Scandal

This isn't a direct indictment of BBC, but more than Reuters is discussed, and it gives a glimpse into the info war that you are all part of in the conflict.

Firm



KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/29/2009 8:06:15 AM)

More than 170 MPs have now put thir names to parliamentary motions criticising the BBC and Sky for not broadcasting the charity Gaza appeal.



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/29/2009 8:27:52 AM)

By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer Josef Federman, Associated Press Writer – Tue Jan 27, 5:35 pm

JERUSALEM – A Palestinian roadside bomb killed an Israeli soldier patrolling the border with Gaza on Tuesday, and Israel responded with an airstrike that wounded a Hamas militant in a flare-up of violence that undermined a cease-fire on the eve of a visit by the new U.S. Mideast envoy.
Israel briefly sent tanks and bulldozers across the border into Gaza after its soldier was killed and three others were wounded in the bombing. Hamas said the Israeli airstrike wounded one of its militants as he rode a motorcycle in the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis.
It was the worst bloodshed since the sides declared the cease-fire on Jan. 18 to end a three-week Israeli offensive.

Again if I was in charge of Israel , I would beat them so damn hard.  But I dont see  the people that claim to be Pro peace blaming  hamas for this attack.
But I am sure if  Israel  defends herself they will be in the streets bitching about how EVIL she is.



KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/29/2009 8:38:51 AM)

Its hard to debate this topic because people get so emotionally involved.

Yes, whoever broke the ceasefire on the Palestinian side is an idiot - but if I were there and had a dead relative or a few I'm not sure I'd be able to sit quietly.  No, Israel are not wrong for responding - but it is the level of which they have responded before that is up for criticism.  Killing over a thousand people tends to make the surrounding population a little angsty.



JustDarkness -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/29/2009 12:03:23 PM)

If you have a certain power..you will use it..not hold back.....even if it is just a warning.

When the USA attacked IRaq (leaving out if it was ok to do or not) you can't expect them to come with old planes and tanks..because Iraq had them too.

I just hope for the civilians..they get a long time of rest now...hope it is just an incident.



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