RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes

RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Yes! I love it when a feeder line gets taken up! [:D] I am still rolling at your calling V "matey"!~ Thanks I really needed the laugh!

Venatrix -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:07:20 PM)
Hey, PforH, you'd better watch your manners. I'm noticing you're not the only male on this thread with a nice - unmarked - back on offer.

PeonForHer -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:07:53 PM)
require a degree of flexibility ?? How much of that do you think I've already had to develop in order to contort my brain around your thinking processes?

Venatrix -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:08:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Yes! I love it when a feeder line gets taken up! [:D] I am still rolling at your calling V "matey"!~ Thanks I really needed the laugh! Don't worry. I'll make sure I post video of his punishment. Of course, you already know what it'll look like: he'll be hopping around on one leg.

Lockit -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:09:00 PM)
Whoa... lol

PeonForHer -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:11:13 PM)
I am still rolling at your calling V "matey"!~ Thanks I really needed the laugh! Cackle Doesn't quite suit V's image really, does it?

sirsholly -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:11:56 PM)
quote: I am just to friggin stubborn to give up what you call stubborn, i call strength [:)]

Lockit -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:13:17 PM)
Awww thank you Holly!

PeonForHer -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:13:31 PM)
Don't worry. The whole idea just gave me a stiffy in a jiffy and a rocket in my pocket, Lockit. [I've been dying to use that line all day!]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:14:27 PM)
Oh sweetie, you have WAY too much time on your hands!! [:D]

Venatrix -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:15:19 PM)
You are so far beyond "in trouble," that you are no longer on any map known to humankind.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:16:40 PM)
Does anyone remember that ep of "Happy Days" where Richie calls Fonzie "bucko"? LOL

Lockit -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 1:17:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Don't worry. The whole idea just gave me a stiffy in a jiffy and a rocket in my pocket, Lockit. [I've been dying to use that line all day!] So you used it on me! Thanks matey!

undergroundsea -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 10:49:18 PM)
All the quotes are making the discussion go sideways for me. So here is something without the quotes for clarity and emphasis. For sake of this discussion, I define tribute as a monetary demand required to explore or sustain a personal relationship. I do not use the term here to describe a fee given for professional domination as a business relationship. I do not use the term to describe items given willingly unless the relationship critically relies on them. For my own relationships, I avoid those that seek tribute. There is very little chance I will respond to a profile that asks for tribute. The concept of paying someone to have their attention conflicts with my sense of self. Such a demand would feel odd and offensive to me as it would be if done in a general social introduction. That said, I have come to see that those who willingly give tribute do not necessarily have a lesser sense of self. I can enjoy a houseboy like relationship that is based on giving service only. To another person who does not understand why I might enjoy it, such a relationship might seem exploitive whereas it does not feel so to me so long as I am happy in it. In the same manner, a given sub might find gratification in giving tribute as a gesture of submission. Still, there are two issues I see with tribute. Over time I have heard various reasons for why tribute is required. In my opinion, in most cases a demand for tribute comes from opportunism allowed by the Fm scenario. Opportunism in itself is not a bad word. What matters to me is the motivation and story behind it. In my opinion, these motivations range from reasonably benign to exploitive. And I think greed--a common human trait--can make some motivations that start on the reasonable end to go south with time. To give some examples, I consider exploitive the scenario (as described in a recent thread) of a woman demanding tribute from a man when he is not into it and trying to break contact with her. I consider leading someone on to get them hooked and then popping the mention of tribute to be exploitive. While the question about whether exploitation is occurring or not is fuzzy, I am wary of and assign unbenign motivations to those who see submissive men as lesser persons whose well-being does not matter (some create this image, some actually hold this view) for sake of the point about general compassion. I consider exploitive a domme telling a new sub (who does not know better) that the only way he will ever get the attention of a domme is by giving tribute (so she can get something from him), or that giving tribute is the protocol in Fm. I object to the unbenign motivations. And I am unimpressed when I see a statement that I perceive to disguise the opportunism. Regarding unbenign motivations, I feel as I do ordinarily whenever I learn of someone being exploited. This response is greater when this exploitation is directed at someone in a group with which I identify. Also, I relate better with, and can more easily trust those who show general compassion versus those who show compassion only to those with whom they are on good terms. I can more easily trust and appreciate a woman who is compassionate to her partner and it goes against her compassion to exploit a stranger, versus a woman who is compassionate to her partner but will readily exploit a stranger. Regarding justifications for tribute, if one demanding tribute would just say, hey I am charging tribute because I can, I would have no argument. I suppose what I am saying is that if one is going for opportunism, one should own up to it. When I object to an explanation that does not appeal to me intellectually, I am not suggesting malign motivation (that matter is independent of this one and the motivation may or may not be malign) but am calling bullshit on the explanation. I give my reasons for why I feel so and, if my perspective is incorrect, I am open to hearing why one thinks so. Here is some psycho-analysis just so Venatrix can enjoy it ;-) Sometimes I sense a cognitive dissonance in the justification given for tribute. If the dissonance is for worry of being judged, it is understandable. If it is for ambivalence about whether what one is doing is fair, then it is a different matter. If one demanding tribute would consider it equally fair upon learning that someone else was doing the same to one's brother (assuming for sake of discussion that one loves this brother and that he is a sub ;-) ), or if the scenarios were reversed and one would find the scenario equally fair if on the other end of it, all is good for this person. If not, this person has some internal talking to do. If I am correct about tribute coming from opportunism and the dissonance, I think the alternate justifications come from this dissonance--whether driven internally or externally--to justify the matter to self and/or others. Cheers, Sea

Venatrix -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 10:59:42 PM)
It's okay, Sea. I'm getting used to the fact that some people in BDSM need to analyse things to death. As Descartes once said, "I think, therefore I drive everybody else around me up the wall."

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 11:02:32 PM)
LOLOL [sm=rofl.gif] Let me try a serious response to the gentleman... quote: undergroundsea Regarding justifications for tribute, if one demanding tribute would just say, hey I am charging tribute because I can, I would have no argument Who are we kidding? Would you really not still find it opportunistic and unfair? And because it's money, it's degrading to the taker, right? What if the tribute were a demand that he not masturbate for 6weeks? What if it were a weekly letter? Some women recognize there is some power associated with money, and they seek to get it, because they think it'll make them more powerful... Or at least as powerful as the person who has to give it up, especially if she's giving nothing up in return. Money is an uncomfortable subject, because it can be a good or bad thing in a relationship equation. Greed is certainly not a fem dom phenomenom. For the sake of argument, I will agree that I too am no fan of unkind, excessively self centered (had to add excessive, being a fem dom, lol), and greedy people. quote: Sometimes I sense a cognitive dissonance in the justification given for tribute. If the dissonance is for worry of being judged, it is understandable. If it is for ambivalence about whether what one is doing is fair, then it is a different matter. If one demanding tribute would consider it equally fair upon learning that someone else was doing the same to one's brother (assuming for sake of discussion that one loves this brother and that he is a sub ;-) ), or if the scenarios were reversed and one would find the scenario equally fair if on the other end of it, all is good for this person. If not, this person has some internal talking to do. How many of us are perfectly congruent all of the time? Who never takes shortcuts? Do all of us always return the money when given incorrect change? Do we always tell the truth? Is the truth as you see it the same for all the folks you think are doing something immoral/unethical? I'm fairly judgemental, but I'm not always sure. Are you? M

undergroundsea -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 11:11:44 PM)
I am going to do a full dance. Now to go sideways ;-) quote: ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1 You made it sound like she is coercing them into giving her somethig of monetary value, and suggesting they aren't there of their own choosing, or because they care for/adore her, but because there are so few fem dommes to choose from. I did not say that. If I am mistaken you are welcome to quote the relevant post. What likely happened is that my comments that were made more generally might have been read as if attributed specifically. quote: Humans and animals attract attention from one another in many ways; yes money and power is one way I do not see this point to apply to our discussion. Do you really think tribute is defining attraction? If some guy writes you and offers you tribute, will he suddently be attractive to you? quote: First of all, there are more women in the world than men. That there may be more alleged male submissives than women, is highly disputable in my opinion. I do not follow your point here since these two statements suggest opposing ideas. quote: As to whatever other forces allow it, it's called the mating game. Women wear heels that break their backs, and wear uncomfortable clothes, etc, etc to attract a man they think will serve them well. It is not an essential part of the mating game because many interactions--especially if one is involved in offline communities--occur without tribute. The world outside Fm, even online, operates without tribute. Some men do indeed notice the intricacies and subtle details of what a woman is wearing. But enough about gay men ;-) In my opinion, the effort women put in their appearance is more for themselves and other women, and then men. Words of wisdom I picked up from a woman ;-) quote: I agree, and for this reason, I think gold diggers are amateurs, when the gold should be brought willingly, and freely. [;)] When it is given voluntarily, I have no issue. My comments are directed at scenarios where it is demanded and the relationship critically relies on it. quote: You're not on the other side of the kneel, so you may not always know why people arrive at their destinations emotionally or intellectually. A LOT of men who profess to be submissive are in fact not. Are you saying tribute is necessary because many men are insincere? Similarly, that you are not on the other side of the keel might not let you see firsthand what that side sees. quote: think that D/s or M/s relationships are inherently unfair In my opinion, the word unequal carries less attachments. So I see that D/s relationships can be unequal. Assuming psychologically healthy participants, whether the inequality is fair or not is best defined by those involved. My advocacy for equality focuses on consent. And my comment about labor centers on consent. quote: I suggested that people who care for one another, often give freely of what they have, and it's not called tribute; it's called generosity, which is a wonderful quality in any human being. I agree. But I consider generosity different than giving tributes that are required. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 11:16:44 PM)
And now a twirl quote: ORIGINAL: shyslv4u Your first post! Welcome to the forums! Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 11:40:21 PM)
Heel toe, heel toe, and then a step back. Dip. quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Many subs are so wrapped up in their "rights as a sub" and the concept that they do not want to be taken advantage of that they throw a fit at even the mere concept that in a potential relationship (two people with mutual affection) they may have LESS rights, or be the one on the other end of power exchange It is up to each couple to decide where the balance of power is, unless it's something like 60/50 because that is a mathematical impossibility. quote: Many subs are so cheap it seems that they are using "possibly being scammed or used for their money" as a reason to push back and thrown a tantrum at the mere suggestion that as part of courting or adoration, they may be expected to open their wallet now and then and/or provide some means of financial support in a potential relationship. An objection to tribute does not lead to the conclusion you state. I often say rants serve a purpose in that they bring attention to an issue. One reason that rants about tribute are frequent is that the matter exists. Men who object to paying someone in order to have a social interaction, whether it be an introduction or an ongoing relationship, because they feel that have as much to offer socially are not necessarily cheap. If you want to receive something to be adored, then why demand it? Does it make you feel loved when you order someone to buy you something? I am sure you have spoken to sub men at times about socially appropriate behavior and asked whether they would approach someone at a company party as they do here. If a man comes to speak with you at a company party, would you tell him to hand you a fifty first? quote: Once two people are romantically involved, if the subs are interested in power exchange, it comes with the territory that perhaps their rights may be taken away or imposed upon; subs, you may as well just call yourself a BOTTOM if your concept of submission is bending your will ONLY when you believe it is "fair." You cannot just arbitrarily select at what point you feel taken advantage of; if you are invested emotionally in a relationship with a dominant woman you can't say "I will serve you by scrubbing floors now and then because that's kind of sexy to me but I won't ever do dishes and because I hate doing dishes, you MAKING me do dishes is NOT fair to me because I SCRUB FLOORS!" Whether or not two people are romantically involved, a power exchange is negotiated, which is based on the concept of consent. Otherwise, by your logic, if a man in a romantic D/s relationship objects to being a cuckold, he must be a bottom. Cheers, Sea

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes (1/19/2009 11:42:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea quote: ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1 You made it sound like she is coercing them into giving her somethig of monetary value, and suggesting they aren't there of their own choosing, or because they care for/adore her, but because there are so few fem dommes to choose from. I did not say that. If I am mistaken you are welcome to quote the relevant post. quote: I assume by responsibilities you mean either career-related responsibilities or miscellaneous life responsibilities such as taking care of tasks at home. Almost everybody has career responsibilities and other life responsibilities yet they find time for whatever relationship, recreation, or social outlets they have. Thus, the argument that a submissive must relieve a domme of her responsibilities so that she may have time to play does not resonate with me. After all, the submissive also has responsibilities and is still making time for play She said they serve her financially (I believe). She didn't say I only make time for them because they serve me financially. That is why I thought your response was something of an attempt at getting an explanation about her consensual relationship with her slaves, where none should be necessary. I didn't take it as a general stamtement, because you were specifically replying to her. * (trying no to mention names anymore).* quote: Humans and animals attract attention from one another in many ways; yes money and power is one way I do not see this point to apply to our discussion. Do you really think tribute is defining attraction? If some guy writes you and offers you tribute, will he suddently be attractive to you?Ok, I'll explain how it applies... Having money is a sign of power, so is giving up money a relinquishing of said power. Why do you think some men (who may or may not be so hot) work hard, sell drugs, or steal from corporations to aquire lots of cash, and buy flashy cars? It is a sign of power, and a way to attract mates. No, money does not make the man for me. quote: First of all, there are more women in the world than men. That there may be more alleged male submissives than women, is highly disputable in my opinion. I do not follow your point here since these two statements suggest opposing ideasHow are they opposing ideas? I'm saying there are probably more women/female dominants without submissive men, because there are not enough submissive men, as opposed to the alleged fem dom/male sub ratio frequently touted. quote: It is not an essential part of the mating game because many interactions--especially if one is involved in offline communities--occur without tribute. The world outside Fm, even online, operates without tribute I didn't say it was essential or the only way. I did say it is one way, and apparently it works for those people who seek and get it, at least for that moment. quote: Some men do indeed notice the intricacies and subtle details of what a woman is wearing. But enough about gay men ;-) In my opinion, the effort women put in their appearance is more for themselves and other women, and then men. Words of wisdom I picked up from a woman ;-) Not me. I'm not trying to attract other women as mates, though I like them as human beings, and friends. When I clean up and do the not average look, it's to be noticed, preferably by the men I notice. quote: quote: You're not on the other side of the kneel, so you may not always know why people arrive at their destinations emotionally or intellectually. A LOT of men who profess.. Are you saying tribute is necessary because many men are insincere? No, never said tributes were necessary. I am saying that some women who have been mislead often, have decided they are going to take advantage to even the score. I don't endorse or subscribe to this at this point in my life, but won't say I've never mistreated someone due to previously undiscarded baggage. quote: Similarly, that you are not on the other side of the keel might not let you see firsthand what that side sees. quote: think that D/s or M/s relationships are inherently unfair In my opinion, the word unequal carries less attachments. So I see that D/s relationships can be unequal. Assuming psychologically healthy participants, whether the inequality is fair or not is best defined by those involved. Cheers, Sea Ok, agreed. M Eddited to try and fix the quotes to no avail. [:(]

Page: << < prev 7 8 [9] 10 11 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.09375