Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Who should make the first move?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Who should make the first move? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 5:39:33 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

MissIsis wrote:
This may sound bad, but around here, I think the males, at least have to say hi, if they want to at least get noticed.  There is a rather hot dominant man that has checked out my profile a couple times.   If he ever bothered to write me & get to know me a little, I sure as hell would go out for coffee with him, if he was in the area.

He got himself noticed by looking at your profile!  Send him a message, for god's sake.  Maybe one day he'll have some reason to be near your town or you'll be near his and you can have that coffee together.

beeble.


_____________________________

Kita's owned slutpet.

(in reply to MissIsis)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 6:02:09 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t

If I don't get that email or call afterward, something was just 'not meant to be'..........NEXT! Who has life force energy to waste on an unwilling victim? <weg>


Nice to hear I'm not the only one that enjoys a "thank you" email/call...rare treats that they are.
 
If I see someone I'm interested in, I'll make the first move.  Why not?  I would expect the same from any man...it shows initative. 

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to SthrnCom4t)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 6:28:24 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

Oh heck.  If I see a sweet piece of fresh meat, I jump on it.  Let's face it ladies.  How many of us jumped on Peon's back then lived to regret it?


I keep sliding off...

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 6:30:15 AM   
BLKMADONA


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/11/2004
Status: offline 		If I see something..errr..someone I like or I think its lovely to look at-I let him/her know. Plain and simple.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 7:33:02 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
And why? Do you think the Dominant party making the first move could, at least in theory, throw the power-play aspect out of order from the onset?
I actually agree with this on some level, in that I prefer a man to pursue me, and court me... After that, I tend to direct the flow of things, but I expect him to do the work of getting to/me.

My experience, when I have pursued once or twice, did not inspire the one or two to do the work of courtship. They expected a lady who would take them out, than put out without any effort on their part besides showing up, and I am so not that lady... I reserve the right to treat a my man like a sex object, but only as my prerogative, not to be presumed by any man as a foregone conclusion. M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to Untouched1282)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 11:59:53 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

hardbodysub wrote:
We seem to disagree on basic definitions. I tend to adhere to a more general, non-lifestyle-BDSM-ified definition of dominance and submission. A D/s relationship doesn't have to be formally established for a dominant personality to assert itself.

But, as I said, ``Many Dom/mes and subs aren't especially dominant or submissive in their lives outside their chosen D/s relationships.''  If it is a matter of definition, are you saying that I'm not submissive because I only submit to my chosen Mistress?  Are you saying that she's not dominant because, when we met in real life for the first time, she was more nervous than I was?

beeble.



I'm saying neither, although your second question begins to edge slightly toward the point. I'm saying that what many who are embedded in "lifestyle-thinkology" seem to think that being dominant entails sitting around on their arses while subs do all the work for them, even to the point where they expect subs to initiate contact, which in our western culture has traditionally been the role of the dominant male.

I'm also saying that if both parties in a relationship are doing exactly what each wants to, no more and no less, then neither one is being submissive or dominant. If one person does all the laundry and housework, and caters to the needs of the other because he/she enjoys doing those things, there's nothing really submissive happening. And just enjoying being served and catered to doesn't mean you're dominant. It's only when there's at least a little conflict, when the parties' desires in regard to specific actions aren't exactly in concurrence, where dominance asserts itself.

People are free to label themselves however they want. But a lot of confusion is created because folks tend to think of certain actions and roles as either dominant or submissive, and to label them as such, when in reality it's not the actions but the motives that make something either dominant or submissive. If you don't really like a specific act per se, but you do it to please your partner, and you might even enjoy that aspect of it, it's a different story.

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 12:20:47 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		So when will your book of pure dominance and submission be released?

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 1:16:32 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Dominance and submission is about the interaction between two inndividual people.
I can be assertive so can a sub.
I can be passive so can a sub. I wonder if some people mix up assertiveness with dominance.
People check out my profile all the time it doesn't mean that they are interested in me as a partner.
I check out other peoples profiles. Sometimes I write to them sometimes I don't.
Dominance and submission is a choice for most people I hope.
People make far too many assumptions about others without finding out the facts in my opinion.
I write to lots of submissives it doesn't mean that I want them as a sub. I meet as many people as I can who have an interest in BDSM.  Just as I like meeting as many singers and musicians as I can because we are interested in the same things. Or actors or people who ride horses. Some people on CM have been extremely helpful to me in my journey. I try to do the same for others. Sure I would adore to find someone compatable to be with but I don't assume just because I talk to them or meet them that we are going to connect. However  none of us are going to find the right person or people if we don't talk to people and meet the ones that we like. Friends who understand and accept me as I am are very rare. In fact non existant lol. I'm going to search for them. Lust comes second in my book to loving friendship. I can't profess to be a dominant if I can't control myself enough to have a chance of getting what I really want which is one or more long term D/s BDSM relationships which take time to build like any other committed relationship. If a Domme needs a sub to contact her then it might be a good idea to say that on her profile but maybe it would be easier to say that she will contact any sub she is interested in and that she will just delete and block anyone who contacts her. Would cut down on the work of sorting out all the mail. I don't get that much so it's easy for me lol.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 3:21:40 PM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

beeble wrote: But, as I said, ``Many Dom/mes and subs aren't especially dominant or submissive in their lives outside their chosen D/s relationships.''  If it is a matter of definition, are you saying that I'm not submissive because I only submit to my chosen Mistress?  Are you saying that she's not dominant because, when we met in real life for the first time, she was more nervous than I was?

hardbodysub wrote: I'm saying neither, although your second question begins to edge slightly toward the point.

Well you'll have to tell me what the point is because I'm afraid I've lost it.  I certainly don't attempt to measure anyone's dominance by how nervours they were the first time I met them face-to-face.

quote:

I'm saying that what many who are embedded in "lifestyle-thinkology" seem to think that being dominant entails sitting around on their arses while subs do all the work for them, even to the point where they expect subs to initiate contact, which in our western culture has traditionally been the role of the dominant male.

Whereas your `lifestyle-thinkology', whatever that means, is that the dominant has to take a dominant role all the time and, therefore, should be the one who makes contact.  That seems to be just as dogmatic as assuming that the dominant should always wait for submissives to fall into his or her lap.

quote:

I'm also saying that if both parties in a relationship are doing exactly what each wants to, no more and no less, then neither one is being submissive or dominant.

Fair enough.  I'm saying that a relationship where somebody isn't getting what they want is going to be unsatisfying for that person.  But I have also said that that doesn't mean that the submissive gets his or her own way.

quote:

People are free to label themselves however they want. But a lot of confusion is created because folks tend to think of certain actions and roles as either dominant or submissive, and to label them as such, when in reality it's not the actions but the motives that make something either dominant or submissive.

But I haven't tried to label actions as inherently dominant or submissive: I've clearly separated the concepts of dominance and submission from the action of making the first move, whereas you seem to be ascribing dominance to that act..

beeble.



_____________________________

Kita's owned slutpet.

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 3:21:51 PM   
Kita


Posts: 30
Joined: 1/11/2009
From: Lincoln, NE
Status: offline
quote:

hardbodysub wrote:
I'm saying neither, although your second question begins to edge slightly toward the point. I'm saying that what many who are embedded in "lifestyle-thinkology" seem to think that being dominant entails sitting around on their arses while subs do all the work for them, even to the point where they expect subs to initiate contact, which in our western culture has traditionally been the role of the dominant male.

I'm also saying that if both parties in a relationship are doing exactly what each wants to, no more and no less, then neither one is being submissive or dominant. If one person does all the laundry and housework, and caters to the needs of the other because he/she enjoys doing those things, there's nothing really submissive happening. And just enjoying being served and catered to doesn't mean you're dominant. It's only when there's at least a little conflict, when the parties' desires in regard to specific actions aren't exactly in concurrence, where dominance asserts itself.

People are free to label themselves however they want. But a lot of confusion is created because folks tend to think of certain actions and roles as either dominant or submissive, and to label them as such, when in reality it's not the actions but the motives that make something either dominant or submissive. If you don't really like a specific act per se, but you do it to please your partner, and you might even enjoy that aspect of it, it's a different story.


One thing to consider with beeble and myself is that we met online. First contact was in a public IRC channel and I initiated the private conversation with him after developing a bit of a crush in the public forum. Now, meeting in person I was far more nervous about things not going well (fear of rejection is not about D/s, it's about the fact that we were both emotionally invested in something and I was afraid it'd fall flat.) He flew from England to Nebraska and I would've felt pretty horrible if he flew all that way to find out it didn't work between us. He was far more set on the fact that he'd given himself to me and wanted me and once he told me face to face that he still did, that was the last bit of skittishness there was from my direction :)

I think I get what you're saying, though. I have known many 'submissives' over the years who have no desire to submit (or serve, or obey, or whatever) they just want to be the receiver of bottomy actions and/or they're willing to do the bidding of the other person. However you put it, they want to 'have it their way' or else it's not much to their liking (akin to 'Topping from below' but not quite so overt.) There's no real power exchange so much as there is willingness to be the non-dominant (not "Dominant") partner. In any relationship there will be those sorts of dynamics/actions/whatever, as they are not about BDSM

Now, in my relationship, yes I know what he likes and doesn't like, but I take what he likes and bend it to my liking. There have to be things we both enjoy since otherwise we'd not be together. The thing is that I don't play into his hand when it comes to the things I know he wants. The fact that he may've had enough and I haven't means he'll be having more because it's my decision.

This happened with us during one spanking the last time he was here. He turned his ass away because it hurt and he wanted it to stop to which I informed him that it's not his decision, it's mine, and I proceeded to spank him more. He does, indeed, submit to my will, whim and decisions, but not every moment is going to be quite so overt.

Otherwise in life we do mutual-caring type things because we're in-love and all that. I make him breakfast sometimes and I've done his laundry. He's cooked me dinner and gotten me water and whatever else. That isn't about D/s, with us, and I wouldn't label it as such with anyone. I personally would find it hard to sit on my ass and let somebody else do everything for me and take care of their stuff too. That's just not realistic in my book or being.

_____________________________

~ gnothi seauton ~ beeble's Owner, Mistress, love ~ (6/15/07) ~

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 3:30:38 PM   
E2Sweet


Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

...And why? Do you think the Dominant party making the first move could, at least in theory, throw the power-play aspect out of order from the onset?...


As far as I'm concerned, who makes the first move really doesn't seem to matter at all when we make a new connection and find some sort of happiness with one another.

I think a more substantial question to be asked is, "Who's the one that's gonna get tied up?"...


_____________________________

E2Sweet™
"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to Untouched1282)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 7:45:37 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

So when will your book of pure dominance and submission be released?


"Pureness" has nothing whatsoever to do with what I've said. I don't give a doo-doo whether someone is a "twue" or "pure" anything. I'm just drawing a distinction between the definitions used by many people in "the lifestyle" and the general definitions understood by the rest of the friggin' universe. I prefer to stick with the original definitions, and use something more distinctive when new meanings are needed, rather than re-defining words.

The same issue was raised recently in a thread related to the word "slave". It clearly doesn't mean the same thing in this context as it does to the outside world. The original meaning of the word has some similarity to the re-defined version, and that only makes it more confusing. It seems better when something more distinctive is chosen.



(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 11:32:25 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I certainly don't attempt to measure anyone's dominance by how nervours they were the first time I met them face-to-face.


You keep bringing that up. I don't know why, because I didn't say anything like that.

quote:

Whereas your `lifestyle-thinkology', whatever that means, is that the dominant has to take a dominant role all the time


Nope. I don't believe that, and didn't say it. In fact, I have often stated the opposite

quote:

But I haven't tried to label actions as inherently dominant or submissive


I didn't say you had.

quote:

I've clearly separated the concepts of dominance and submission from the action of making the first move, whereas you seem to be ascribing dominance to that act..


Here you make a good point. It does look that way. I guess I have to explain myself further, and get more deeply into this than I really wanted to. Damn.

To clarify: I don't think it matters who makes the initial contact. Anyone with the desire should feel free to do it, regardless of D/s label identification. My comment correlating a dominant orientation with making the first move was made to offer an opposing point of view to many of the CM dominants who, either by statement or practice, make it clear that the submissive has to be the party to make the initial contact.

"Making the first move" isn't a simple action such as doing the laundry. It's proactive, motivated by the desire to influence another person to respond in a desirable manner. It requires planning, confidence, courage, initiative, and implementation. Now, forget that this is a BDSM-related board, and ask yourself which of the following words would typically be associated with such an action:

Dominant: Exercising the most influence or control.
Submissive: Disposed to submit; docile.
Submit: To yield (oneself) or surrender to the will or authority of another. To allow oneself to be subjected; acquiesce.
Submission: The state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.
(Definitions from The American Heritage Dictionary)

quote:

I'm afraid I've lost it


That's OK, I like you anyway.
(out of context quote just for fun)






(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/15/2009 11:33:43 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Cool.

(in reply to E2Sweet)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/16/2009 3:43:07 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

beeble wrote: I certainly don't attempt to measure anyone's dominance by how nervours they were the first time I met them face-to-face.
hardbodysub wrote: You keep bringing that up. I don't know why, because I didn't say anything like that.

I said ``Are you saying that she's not dominant because, when we met in real life for the first time, she was more nervous than I was?'' and you replied, ``[this]question begins to edge slightly toward the point.''  It seems reasonable for me to bring it up again and ask what you meant..

quote:

To clarify: I don't think it matters who makes the initial contact. Anyone with the desire should feel free to do it, regardless of D/s label identification. My comment correlating a dominant orientation with making the first move was made to offer an opposing point of view to many of the CM dominants who, either by statement or practice, make it clear that the submissive has to be the party to make the initial contact.

OK, fine.  I don't think your original posting expressed that at all.  You said, ``logically it makes more sense for the dominant party to be making the first move'' and explained that it is usually not the case but finished the post without ever giving any suggestion that the proposed ``logical'' state of affairs was not how things should work.  But now I see that you did mention that in your follow-up to that post.

Please accept my apologies for not noticing half of what you'd written and taking issue with an incomplete picture.

beeble.



_____________________________

Kita's owned slutpet.

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/16/2009 5:24:30 AM   
ReinaPop


Posts: 11
Joined: 1/7/2009
Status: offline 		I feel more comfortable, more in control when I make the first move, but as has been said, it's a matter of tastes, not of fixed rules.
Regards
Reina

(in reply to dreamysubmale)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/16/2009 5:46:02 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think it's a matter "who" makes the first move as much as HOW the first move is conducted...

A submissive should be respectful and non-demanding in their approach. s/he should be sincere and willing to answer questions about WHY they chose to contact the Domme. s/he should also ask questions that will help them to judge whether this Domme is the One they have been seeking.

A Domme should be respectful and non-demanding as well, since the submissive does not belong to them, however She should express why She initiated contact with confidence. While a Domme has no right to be demanding, She would be wise to maintain Her dignity, while requesting information that would assist Her in evaluating whether they are a potential match.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to Untouched1282)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/16/2009 6:51:40 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, stop being so nice! You're no fun anymore!

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/17/2009 5:16:25 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline

[/quote]
You are most welcome, and thank you 
[/quote]

ass kisser. ;)

< Message edited by Underumam -- 1/17/2009 5:17:51 AM >

(in reply to dreamysubmale)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Who should make the first move? - 1/17/2009 5:21:36 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

...And why? Do you think the Dominant party making the first move could, at least in theory, throw the power-play aspect out of order from the onset?...


As far as I'm concerned, who makes the first move really doesn't seem to matter at all when we make a new connection and find some sort of happiness with one another.



I think a more substantial question to be asked is, "Who's the one that's gonna get tied up?"...




Isn't that supposed to be us doodes?  I think there's just something terribly sexy about a strong female wielding that kind of power over her man. Thread drift I know- but your comment got me all worked up. ;)

(in reply to E2Sweet)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Who should make the first move? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094