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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 10:56:44 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		It was most likely a flock of Canadian Geese. They are  protected. Since 1990, more than 65,000 airplanes have been damaged by various birds. The numbers go up every year. It is more of a problem for those flying private aircraft..

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 10:57:35 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Unless you think we should have A-10's patrolling avery airport to shoot down every bird they see in the area.



It's obvious Merc only has our best interests at heart: these patrols would provide much needed jobs, and the guns would revitalise our poor weapon manufacturing industry  .

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 10:58:54 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It was most likely a flock of Canadian Geese.



Goddam aliens.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:01:11 AM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

However, Merc's anti environmentalist rant actually has very little accuracy

A statement of fact a "rant". Don't you ever tire of exaggeration, or is it required from your agenda based perspective?

It's not a new phenomena, but the policy of trying to scare them versus killing them is relatively new, and increased the likelihood of more of these situations occurring.

The 'save the pigeons/seagulls/whatever' is no different than the saving the spotted owl while killing lumbering jobs, or saving the caribou, in order to insure reliance on middle east oil and buying it people who need a 'PETA' type group to protect the children in the area. Except in that case 'PETA' would be an endangered species, if not extinct.


Agenda-based perspective?  This coming from someone who has introduced a theory in a non-political thread that this would not have happened but for liberal environmentalists.

Scaring them versus killing them has nothing to do with regulation, policy, or environmentalism.  It has to do with practicality.  La Guardia, and many others, especially waterfront airports use sound cannons because it has proven to be the most effective method.  Many farms near here use the same method.  Not because the farmers don't want to kill the poor little birdies, but because it is not a realistic solution to fend off huge flocks of birds.

Not to mention what someone said earlier that we don't know if this happened on takeoff or when they were already airborne.  Unless you think we should have A-10's patrolling avery airport to shoot down every bird they see in the area.



There, there...now you're letting facts intrude onto Merc's end-of-the-runway protected-habitat fantasies.  How dare you!  Don't you know that libruls caused this plane to crash?


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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:04:51 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Canadian libruls to boot! Where's Dick Cheney when you need his expertise? He's the only one who knows how to waterboard a goose.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:07:29 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Canadian libruls to boot! Where's Dick Cheney when you need his expertise? He's the only one who knows how to waterboard a goose.


...that's a thought, strap Dick Cheney to the front of Aussie planes and he can shoot those damn hoodie wearing, hang gliding kangaroos in the face.......assuming we can get them to wear dayglo orange hunter-style hoodies.......

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:08:31 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am just seeing this on the tv, all I can say, is a pretty impressive bit of flying, and to all those tugs and ferry boats that went to help, it is so good to see that when shit hits the fan, everyone pulls their finger out to help.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:08:40 AM   
bluepanda


Posts: 328
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		A defective European airplane, diabolical Canadian geese... thank god there was a red-blooded American pilot on the stick to save the day!

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:09:41 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It was most likely a flock of Canadian Geese. They are  protected. Since 1990, more than 65,000 airplanes have been damaged by various birds. The numbers go up every year. It is more of a problem for those flying private aircraft..


Canadian geese are protected? 

We have so many around here you have to watch where you step before you slide on their droppings.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:11:00 AM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Canadian libruls to boot! Where's Dick Cheney when you need his expertise? He's the only one who knows how to waterboard a goose.


...that's a thought, strap Dick Cheney to the front of Aussie planes and he can shoot those damn hoodie wearing, hang gliding kangaroos in the face.......assuming we can get them to wear dayglo orange hunter-style hoodies.......


If it was anything like his quail "hunting" expedition, they'd have to put the roos in nets first, then have someone shoo them out of the bushes en masse for the "hunters" to shoot at...

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:17:27 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Seagulls, geese, and now, quails. And I read on "Unconfirmed Sources" that Cheney was the first hunter to bag a bald eagle as soon as it was taken off the endangered specie list.

Hmmmmmmmm, now to some foie gras...

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:18:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

Agenda-based perspective?  This coming from someone who has introduced a theory in a non-political thread that this would not have happened but for liberal environmentalists.
Sorry your agenda based perspective read that into my simple statement regarding what occurred yesterday.

A-10's~?? Exactly as suggested - but not by me, I think you suggested that. I think it would be over-kill. However, if that's your best case solution, and it saves the next jet from going down, I'd support YOUR plan.

Birds were the cause. Scare them, in and around the airport, and they come back - kill them and they don't; pragmatic and simple. Yesterday's heroic efforts may have instead been a routine flight. I was considering the environmental impact of jet fuel in the Hudson as well as the energy used by the, so far, 4 pages of this thread.

You really shouldn't read facts if they upset you so much. 

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:23:42 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Merc, I, too, was completely traumatised by Hitchock's movie The Birds, but I got over my desire to kill them all eons ago, when I realised how useful birds really are (they feed the cats). Please leave our winged and beaked friends alone - Hitch was a deviant. I understand your fears: but they're not out there to take down every single airplane, I promise you :-) .

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:25:55 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Never mind where the aircraft was built, that is not a measure of susceptibility to bird strikes. Bird strikes happen, they are a constant worry to pilots, especially aircraft flying low over wetland areas, the prescence of the aircraft, it's noise etc can make a flock of birds suddenly alight. Not only is the flock of birds a problem, but the aircraft engines create a cone of suction not only to front of the engine, but for some degrees to the side of the engine intake, so even if birds are not directly in front, they can be sucked in from below. Lots of crumpled bird bodies and feathers on and amongst the compressor blades can starve an engine of air, the very stuff it needs to work.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:41:34 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Agenda-based perspective?  This coming from someone who has introduced a theory in a non-political thread that this would not have happened but for liberal environmentalists.
Sorry your agenda based perspective read that into my simple statement regarding what occurred yesterday.

A-10's~?? Exactly as suggested - but not by me, I think you suggested that. I think it would be over-kill. However, if that's your best case solution, and it saves the next jet from going down, I'd support YOUR plan.

Birds were the cause. Scare them, in and around the airport, and they come back - kill them and they don't; pragmatic and simple. Yesterday's heroic efforts may have instead been a routine flight. I was considering the environmental impact of jet fuel in the Hudson as well as the energy used by the, so far, 4 pages of this thread.

You really shouldn't read facts if they upset you so much. 


They don't upset me, just amuses me to hear someone so convinced that his own opinions are fact.

So tell me, how would you propose killing the birds?  Snipers in the tower?  We can delay every flight for an hour on the runway why the flock is picked off one by one.  I'm sure we'll only have to do that for a few days until word passes around in bird circles to stay away from that airport. 



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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:43:06 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
So tell me, how would you propose killing the birds?  Snipers in the tower? 


Dick Cheney is looking for work...

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:45:51 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So tell me, how would you propose killing the birds?  Snipers in the tower?  We can delay every flight for an hour on the runway why the flock is picked off one by one.  I'm sure we'll only have to do that for a few days until word passes around in bird circles to stay away from that airport. 





...best solution i've heard of is to use hawks. The hawks take a few birds down and, indeed, word gets round in avian circles that te particular area is a bad place to be.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Airport-wings-it-with-hawk.4044239.jp

........apparently it's rather effective.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:47:11 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

So tell me, how would you propose killing the birds?  Snipers in the tower?  We can delay every flight for an hour on the runway why the flock is picked off one by one.  I'm sure we'll only have to do that for a few days until word passes around in bird circles to stay away from that airport. 


Point is, they can't kill them now.

If they could I'd leave it to the experts; poison, shooting, throwing a net over the flock and stomping on them; not relevant.

Stick with the basics it will be easier for you.

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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:52:59 AM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
So tell me, how would you propose killing the birds?  Snipers in the tower? 


Dick Cheney is looking for work...

HERE he comes, to save the DAYYYYYY!






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RE: US Airways flight just went into the Hudson River - 1/16/2009 11:55:02 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It was most likely a flock of Canadian Geese. They are  protected. Since 1990, more than 65,000 airplanes have been damaged by various birds. The numbers go up every year. It is more of a problem for those flying private aircraft..


Canadian geese are protected? 

We have so many around here you have to watch where you step before you slide on their droppings.



Federal Migratory Bird Act of 1918 Canada Geese are protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Act of 1918 . This Act makes it illegal to harm or injure a goose and damage or move its eggs and nest, without a Federal permit. Not complying with the Federal Act can result in fines ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 and this also applies to an untrained dog’s actions.. Although, protection from hunters has proven beneficial in bringing back what was once a dwindling goose population, factors such as climate change and urban sprawl have helped to manifest into a new phenomenon . . . goose residency year round! Resident Canadian geese are geese which no longer migrate back north. They stay permanently within the same geographical location year round. This growing phenomenon has occurred largely because these geese have found ample food, safety and nesting sites within the nicely manicured lawns and retention ponds that dot our sprawling urban landscape. Each of these resident Canadian geese will eat 2-3 pounds of grass and deposit approximately 1-2 pounds of (potentially, disease and parasite contaminated) droppings every day. These geese become habituated to people -- live longer, begin reproducing younger and become more aggressive at nesting time than do migratory geese. The resident goose population is nearly doubling in size every five years.


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