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Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:06:57 AM

MojoRisin

Posts: 178
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

MR

< Message edited by MojoRisin -- 1/7/2006 9:08:12 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:21:48 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

You haven't met the right people then. I would'nt walk from my dom. No matter what happened. Believe me severe things have happened over the year's. I made a committment to him. I happen to know what committment means.
Perhap's that is the issue. Not enough people know what it means?

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 2

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:24:02 AM

sudja

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoRisin

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

And if the submissive does not want to do so, does not want to walk away, is compelled to stay, to serve, then you have proven the point that they are in fact submissive to the needs and wants of the Dominant.

sudja

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 3

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:24:41 AM

Jnj

Posts: 72
Joined: 9/28/2004
Status: offline

Have you heard of the theory of Internal Enslavement?
Internal Enslavement Webpage

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 4

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:32:58 AM

wolffeathers

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline

Total Domination takes time.

Total Domination comes from trust.

If a slave leaves because she feels like it, she is NOT a slave.

If she leaves because of saftey issues, that is differnt.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 5

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 9:40:37 AM

phoenixslave

Posts: 66
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline

There is always a bit of premise to these relationships. One simply must ignore them. A true slave must be pushed very hard indeed to break the compact they have made. But i wonder at the mindset behind this sort of question. In order for a Master to truly own another person, there are a lot of responsibilities, and a lot of care to keep it going. If a Man just wants to order someone about with no thought to the slaves feelings, own needs, then it is likely to end with the Master asking this very question, as most will eventually leave. The mindset that slaves should have no wants, no needs of their own is unrealistic for most in the long run. That it is bad for a slave to want attention/ affection/ sex/ and seek it , is unrealistic in the long run. A Master who is prepared to answer these needs and acknowledge the legitimacy of them will sustain a relationship much longer, much more often. Bow to reality and make it what you will. When that is what is best for both individuals it is wonderful.
i came to Master as a fully funtioning human being with the desire to be owned. Not to be made over or abused or to become an automaton to his needs. i better serve him as the man that i am. Of course this works only because this is the sort of relationship we each were looking for. i have yet to find anything i would not do for Him and i hope i never do. He makes me a better me everyday. i could pick up and walk any day. He could just as easily throw me out any day. That is reality that has little to do with our interactions. And yes he dominates me in every way. i know i come off as a touchy feely pampered kind, but in truth it gets quite hardcore. Often more so than i would choose for myself had i not given that choice to Him. And yet it is at those very times i feel most secure in my servitude by submitting. But in the end i am still a person and that too keeps me there.

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 6

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 11:25:28 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Interesting. Personally i think MOST slaves can not just get up and walk away if they choose too. i think MOST slaves can not just randomly decide to disobey. i am not a slave by my definetions of a slave, but carry the title as i am owned. i am on my way to being a slave. That cleared up.

i have tried to "randomly" disobey direct orders. It never works, even though i am CHOOSING to disobey for some reason or another, i can never follow through on it. With an odd twist, i can disobey, when i am allowed too. Usually it is not a conscious thing on my part. i tend to get wrapped up in what i am doing. But i have never in my life with him, been able to disobey a direct command. If that makes any sense.

As far as a slave being able to walk out and disobey at their choosing. Like Phoenix said, a Master can do the same excat thing. Its a double edge sword. It is also the Dominants choice.

A true slave, by my definition can not do the things you have mentioned. That is why they are a slave and they call their Master, Master. As they have been Mastered. A Mastered slave, can not do those things, nor could it really entered their mind to do so. Look up IE the link was posted.

(in reply to phoenixslave)

Post #: 7

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:07:31 PM

Burninglash

Posts: 19
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: South Africa
Status: offline

Hmm this debate gets done over and over huh? Why is control only defined at the extreme of breakdown? Every time a slave obeys in something that they would not have done on their own, its submission (by definition) to anothers will. Human beings are creatures of habit. Structure the dynamic so its habit to obey and you will be amazed at what you can get done.

Legally you cannot enslave anyone in any country I am aware of, certainly none that subscribe to western values. So then if slavery is not legal and thus legal restitution is not available to an "Owner", you rely on the people involved who made a commitment. Be that the comitment to "Master/Mistress" or the commitment to "slave". Its certainly possible to create a co-dependence relationship which is extremely hard to walk away from but it's psychological in nature.

Would you say that some one who stayed in an abusive relationship was enslaved because they cannot walk away easily? I hope not! The point about realising that you have two people involved is totally on the money. Slaves have emotional needs and physical needs which cannot be ignored. Even machines need lubrication. Consentual slavery is exactly that. The consenting act of entering into a relationship where one party will take the power and one will give it up. Then its work to make that dynamic the normal dynamic untill such time as the habitual patterns set in. Then its relatively simple to maintain and extend your control over the slave. Your control over a machine is not defined by the ability to break it. Nor is your control over a slave defined by your ability to break them.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 8

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:28:13 PM

LokisBrat

Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

Even machines need lubrication. Consentual slavery is exactly that. The consenting act of entering into a relationship where one party will take the power and one will give it up. Then its work to make that dynamic the normal dynamic untill such time as the habitual patterns set in. Then its relatively simple to maintain and extend your control over the slave. Your control over a machine is not defined by the ability to break it. Nor is your control over a slave defined by your ability to break them.

Really well said, thank you!

brat

_____________________________

"My pleasure, your pain. Doesn't matter, its all the same"

-Loki

(in reply to Burninglash)

Post #: 9

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:28:51 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

i came to Master as a fully funtioning human being with the desire to be owned. Not to be made over or abused or to become an automaton to his needs. i better serve him as the man that i am. Of course this works only because this is the sort of relationship we each were looking for. i have yet to find anything i would not do for Him and i hope i never do. He makes me a better me everyday. i could pick up and walk any day. He could just as easily throw me out any day. That is reality that has little to do with our interactions. And yes he dominates me in every way. i know i come off as a touchy feely pampered kind, but in truth it gets quite hardcore. Often more so than i would choose for myself had i not given that choice to Him. And yet it is at those very times i feel most secure in my servitude by submitting. But in the end i am still a person and that too keeps me there.

Beautifully said! M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to phoenixslave)

Post #: 10

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:39:17 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

once a slave is truly Mastered she can not walk away,she can try,lol, but if her soul is enslaved, when Master calls or commands she will do....as long as a Master remains honorable she is bound.imo

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 11

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:44:57 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

aye, i should have read further down, my thoughts exactly, once Mastered, a girl can not leave, even when she tries, Master calls and finds value, a slave stays...she is bound as such, if she has a slave heart and he has truly enslaved her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Interesting. Personally i think MOST slaves can not just get up and walk away if they choose too. i think MOST slaves can not just randomly decide to disobey. i am not a slave by my definetions of a slave, but carry the title as i am owned. i am on my way to being a slave. That cleared up.

i have tried to "randomly" disobey direct orders. It never works, even though i am CHOOSING to disobey for some reason or another, i can never follow through on it. With an odd twist, i can disobey, when i am allowed too. Usually it is not a conscious thing on my part. i tend to get wrapped up in what i am doing. But i have never in my life with him, been able to disobey a direct command. If that makes any sense.

As far as a slave being able to walk out and disobey at their choosing. Like Phoenix said, a Master can do the same excat thing. Its a double edge sword. It is also the Dominants choice.

A true slave, by my definition can not do the things you have mentioned. That is why they are a slave and they call their Master, Master. As they have been Mastered. A Mastered slave, can not do those things, nor could it really entered their mind to do so. Look up IE the link was posted.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 12:53:09 PM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoRisin

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

MR

I think that a sign of true domination is when your slave stays when they have the choice to leave. Otherwise, you are just talking about some form of coercion.

Smythe

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 13

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:10:10 PM

LokisBrat

Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline

My feelings on the subject are very simple: When the proper amount of time is taken, the trust established, and the communication line is wide open, the sub/slave won't want to walk away. He/she will be honored to follow your direction.

After reading so many posts, one of the things that I have noticed is punishment is so easily laid down when bad behavior is present, but one must remember to also praise and nurture when good behavior is present.

LOKI

_____________________________

"My pleasure, your pain. Doesn't matter, its all the same"

-Loki

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 14

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:24:07 PM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

Everyone tops from the bottom, and people bottom from the top. I have never figured out why some people have such an issue with this little dose or reality. It doesnt diminish the concept of submitting, it doesnt demean the art of S/M.
When selecting a partner subs "offer" themselves only to those that have similiar tastes. Thats topping (of sorts). In service someone with a domestic discipline inclination is not going to receive golden showers or get gang banged at the request of a Domme. Again, topping, or setting restrictions, which is about the same thing. People spend their whole life debating points, semantics, theory and never actually get out there and DO what they talk about and/or desire. Thats a shame. :)

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to LokisBrat)

Post #: 15

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:26:39 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoRisin

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

MR

The slaves and submissives that I know would never take their commitment so lightly. They would NEVER just 'get up and walk away'. Once they agree to a relationship with a Master or Dominant, they COMPLETLY GIVE UP the right to any decisions that may be made, that includes getting up and walking away.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 16

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:38:53 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

i guess that is where the difference is tween a sub and a slave.
Masters kinks and mine are not the same but he shall take me there and his limits will become my limits not my limits are his limits.
for he is the Master and i am the slave.
it is not a 'gee Master i dont want to do this' option.
if i wish to remain pleasing and valued in his eyes....that is how it is and i can't walk away.
Master is honorable therefore because he enslaved me, i stay, i learn, i grow, i do as he wishes.
there is no other choice for me.
i know i have tried,lol,the ache of an unfulfilled belly that burns for Master is the worst kind of punishment but it taught me alot and i have been even more blessed because of it.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 17

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:55:28 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoRisin

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....

MR

"Is it truly domination?"

All questions of this type seem to be readily resolvable by the exact same method. I encourage you to try it diligently for a year or so and report back to us about how much the quality of your intellectual life has improved.

Here's the method:

1. Notice the word "real" or "really" or the word "true" or "truly" or some cognate of one of those words in the question.

2. Become suspicious

3. Verify whether this is one of those strings of words dressed up as a question about the nature of things, which in light of the OP, this one is.

4. Remind yourself that what is, is, regardless of what you call it, and that there is often great value in directly encountering what is, and often a useless quagmire surrounding efforts to "decide" "what it is." Whereas efforts to find good, shared terms to use to describe "what is" can both help you think and see more clearly and help your community to thrive in relative calm.

5. Remind yourself that pseudo-questions like this are seldom good for making any progress with until you notice that any useful response will depend on the definitions given to the terms in the "question." I.e. if you define domination this way, then yes. If you define domination that way, then no. Now please pass the beer nuts.

6. Remind yourself that the definitions someone else brings to the dicsussion may mirror the broad common usage of the term OR the definition someone else brings may be shared only in a certain community OR the definition the other person brings may be a curious (but potentially valuable!) thing of their own making and they may very not be aware of which sort of definition they are bringing.

7. Remind yourself that the definition which another person brings may be a function of a metaphysical theory under which they operate--again, whether they know it or not (the OP, for instance, is demonstrably coming out of a particular, apparently unquestioned, metaphysic)--and thank your lucky stars that you have decided that while scientific theories are wondrous powerful things in their own sphere, metaphysical theories are kind of like the original question. That is they are strings of words in masquerade, in this case dressed up as explanations. In short metaphysical theories are way more trouble than they are worth and should be dumped the moment that you find that one has crawled into your pack during a fitful night's sleep.

8. Recast the question along lines like these: "Do you find it useful to consider as domination instances of (this) or (that)? Why or why not?" In this way the broadly common definition, or the locally common definition, or the personal definition can be evaluated for it's usefulness in light of your personal and/or shared experiences. Then the definition can be affirmed or revised acordingly.

9. Promise never to mouth a string of words like "Is ____ really and truly ______?" ever ever again. Cross your heart and hope to die.

10. Live in peace with my eternal thanks.

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 18

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 1:55:35 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

If the Master has a truely dominant personality and the slave has a truely submissive nature, the answer is yes.

quote:

It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards...

It's true, a slave or submissive can always say no, unless they have a doormat personality, and if thats the case i dont think it even healthy they are even in this type of relationship. Saying that, a slave or subbie type chooses to surrender in this type of relationship and that surrender over time becomes very profound, both their mental and emotional states surrender and this gives the power to the Dominant to truely dominate. In that case its a true domination.

Side Note: Hope everyone had happy holidays~!

< Message edited by slavejali -- 1/7/2006 1:56:43 PM >

(in reply to MojoRisin)

Post #: 19

RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 2:13:38 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

i guess that is where the difference is tween a sub and a slave.

that was my first thought, but i didnt want to say it

(in reply to fyreredsub)

Post #: 20

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