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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 2:21:51 PM

fyreredsub

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*shrugs* you know me and my mouth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

quote:

i guess that is where the difference is tween a sub and a slave.

that was my first thought, but i didnt want to say it

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"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 2:29:09 PM

veronicaofML

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From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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Have you heard of the theory of Internal Enslavement?
Internal Enslavement Webpage

==============

theory?

kinda like THEORY of e=mc2?
it HAS been proved non working. there IS 'a' form of matter that will NOT change form at the speed of light...a form of gas that will NOT change at the speed of light...

theory is good...but not workable.

that is what MY teacher told ME.!!!!!!!!
and i always had straight A's in ANY science class.

so..what is YOUR take on it????/
do YOU subscribe to the given theory of internal enslavement?

domination...is just like everything else in MY life...either it will flow or "I" go...
i am NOT going to put up with ANY b.s. from anyone...MY life....MY game...MY rules...i am NOT going to MY grave unhappy.......

i want it MY way....

YOUR feedback?

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 3:17:51 PM

caitlyn

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Lots of very intelligent, experienced and wise people, seem to classify themselves as slaves.

Maybe it's something inside, and they would still be a slave even if they walked. Maybe they find someone that brings this out in them. Maybe it's a combination of the two, or this and other factors. Perhaps it's different for every person.

At some point, you just have to think that if knowing people, knnowingly feel themselves as slaves ... it's pretty silly to disbelieve it, because you may not understand it.

Hope this helps.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 1/7/2006 4:05:54 PM >

(in reply to MojoRisin)

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:01:11 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

Have you heard of the theory of Internal Enslavement?
Internal Enslavement Webpage

==============

theory?

kinda like THEORY of e=mc2?
it HAS been proved non working. there IS 'a' form of matter that will NOT change form at the speed of light...a form of gas that will NOT change at the speed of light...

theory is good...but not workable.

that is what MY teacher told ME.!!!!!!!!
and i always had straight A's in ANY science class.

If you're right about the nonworkability of Einstein's theory you have some explaining to do to a guy named Oppenheimer and some folks in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

In any case to find a limit to the range of application of a scientific theory is not to disprove it.

Change of form (whatever that might mean) at lightspeed was never an issue with Einstein's theory, as I recall. I think your teacher owes you an apology for those As.

Do you recall the name of that "form of gas," by the way?

quote:

so..what is YOUR take on it????/
do YOU subscribe to the given theory of internal enslavement?

I haven't read it yet but I am grateful to the poster who graciously presented it to us. In my view her graciousness was a credit both to herself and to her dominant partner.

quote:

domination...is just like everything else in MY life...either it will flow or "I" go...
i am NOT going to put up with ANY b.s. from anyone...MY life....MY game...MY rules...i am NOT going to MY grave unhappy.......

i want it MY way....

YOUR feedback?

My goodness. Your profile says that you are owned and now you have clarified for us that it is all YOUR way, YOUR game, YOUR rules and YOUR happiness.

Interesting.

Maybe I'll change my profile to indicate that I am an astronaut, then post here to clarify that it is all about wearing tall hats, herding cattle and shooting sixguns from horseback.

That would be interesting too, right?

(in reply to veronicaofML)

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:05:17 PM

shigglyboom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
9. Promise never to mouth a string of words like "Is ____ really and truly ______?" ever ever again.

Ah, but is that really and truly what you want? ;)

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:14:08 PM

Sunshine119

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I read somewhere on Gloria Bramme's site that Master-slave relationships are more apt to dissolve than a traditional marriage. Who wants out? I don't know. But, my guess is that it is probably split at least 50-50 with the slaves leaving as often as the masters. We should do a poll on this site to find out how many slaves have "asked for their release" or would have left anyway.

How does this address the OPs question? LOL....both masters and slaves are people first. A slave has needs. Even if it is only to hear the words "good girl" or get a pat on the butt when he is pleased. There are real requirements that every person needs to have in order to stay .... or leave a relationship. A collar on her/his neck isn't going to cut it if he/she wants to go.

My experience has shown me that it takes two to make a relationship work, whether that is one of marriage or ownership. One can never do it alone.....NEVER. In our country, slavery isn't legally recognized even if a person signs a document to that effect. Yes, the slave does have power.

So, is it really true domination? All we ever have is this moment. And, in this moment the slave can give him/herself over completely to another. Tomorrow? I guess we'll just all have to keep working on our relationships and wait, hope, pray and if lucky, get there together.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:16:50 PM

Sunshine119

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Sorry Caitlyn, my post was not in response to your reply but to the OPs original question.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:23:31 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shigglyboom

Ah, but is that really and truly what you want? ;)

Oh baby I want it so bad.

Please see steps 2 and 3.

Thanks for the smile, shiggly

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:49:35 PM

shigglyboom

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With pleasure. And likewise!

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 4:54:03 PM

fyreredsub

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i know i can only speak from my experience....
a slave can not leave(she can try) once totally enslaved by Master as long as Master still finds value in her....she is bound to that bond.

so, imo, yes, it is somewhat a two way street...in this situation...
if a Master was dishonorable and/or didn't find value in his slave ,well then i guess a Master would be changing the foundation of the relationship,( but many slaves still feel bound as long as they aren't being abused),
she would be free to go but would she still feel enslaved even when apart....??????

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

I read somewhere on Gloria Bramme's site that Master-slave relationships are more apt to dissolve than a traditional marriage. Who wants out? I don't know. But, my guess is that it is probably split at least 50-50 with the slaves leaving as often as the masters. We should do a poll on this site to find out how many slaves have "asked for their release" or would have left anyway.

How does this address the OPs question? LOL....both masters and slaves are people first. A slave has needs. Even if it is only to hear the words "good girl" or get a pat on the butt when he is pleased. There are real requirements that every person needs to have in order to stay .... or leave a relationship. A collar on her/his neck isn't going to cut it if he/she wants to go.

My experience has shown me that it takes two to make a relationship work, whether that is one of marriage or ownership. One can never do it alone.....NEVER. In our country, slavery isn't legally recognized even if a person signs a document to that effect. Yes, the slave does have power.

So, is it really true domination? All we ever have is this moment. And, in this moment the slave can give him/herself over completely to another. Tomorrow? I guess we'll just all have to keep working on our relationships and wait, hope, pray and if lucky, get there together.

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 1/7/2006 5:00:12 PM >

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"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 5:16:41 PM

MsIncognito

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How do you know that? Maybe they're just slaves to their OWN needs and desires for submission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

And if the submissive does not want to do so, does not want to walk away, is compelled to stay, to serve, then you have proven the point that they are in fact submissive to the needs and wants of the Dominant.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 6:05:08 PM

cloudboy

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Wow, didactic, dull, and condescending all rolled into one. You are one tough read.

But back to the OP:

>What's interesting is the question.... are Masters TRULY dominating their slaves?

Meaning, a Master can do all the "right" things, and demand that the slave obey a certain command and threaten "punishment" if these demands go unfullfilled.... but the slave can still get up and walk away at any time. It's always the slave's choice to obey..... so IS it true domination.... truly conquering.... when it's all up to the sub to obey? They hold the cards... they can say "fuck you, get out of my face" any time they want....<

I once met a Domme who despised the word "play" and preferred the word "work" instead. This person was also big into slavery and TPE. At the time I didn't even know what TPE was.

Anyway, it was her point of view that a sub should always be challenged, and its been my experience that D/S is about challenges --- and those challenges are thought up and presented to the sub, by the DOM. So, as a sub I often think, "can I do it," "what have I committed myself too," and "how much further can I go." There is an inherent inhibition and fear of what is to come which is usually mixed with a bit of reward.

What do I mean by this? Take bondage for example. I get tied up. My ability to move is taken away. There is an element of struggle here, endurance, self composure, and as time moves ---- a growing need to be released. I don't have a say here, I have to take it. Being released after pleasing my Mistress with my grace, is the reward. Let's take a good paddling as an example. OMG does this carry with it anticipation. Usually, I really don't think about it until I am tied into place to receive it, when I cannot escape, and the inevitability of Mistress striking me is iminent. "O, I hope I can take it," and "don't worry, it will end soon," and "aaaaaaa, that really hurts..." quickly come to mind. "Stop," never comes to mind, for that is failure in my mind, quiting before my job is done. Letting my Mistress go until she get's satisfaction or has made her point, that is the reward.

Why do I submit? Because my Mistress loves it, and this brings us closer together. I simply CANNOT deny this fact. So, I am stuck. If I want to be with her (I do) I must submit. In the larger totality, I begin to feel owned. I don't feel I hold the cards, I don't feel I can say no or refuse her. My submission is not entirely "enjoyable" ----- there truly is an element of "work" in it --- prepping emotionally, physically --- the anticipation --- and the endurance. I do not control the when, the how, the duration, or the why, she does. In sum, basically her expectations control me ----- and this to me is domination. She can put me to "work" at any time, and I will comply.

What I think your question does, is turn a sub's compliance into a weak link, but I think you can argue the opposite, the sub's compliance is the real steel in the chain.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 6:39:39 PM

GlobalSkulls

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They can always say no, the only reason one would not walk away is fear of the doms doing something life threatening to them.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 6:49:19 PM

fyreredsub

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if one was able to walk away they were not mastered,imo..but i do not understand D/s..i only know M/s..it is different.
the only thing i fear about Master is displeasing him, my remaining has NOTHING to do w/ fearing anything remotely life threatning

what you speak of is abuse and threats of harm....

M/s is not that way at last for this girl...and i dare say there are many others that would agree w/ a girl on this...
*shrugs at this Op opinion and leaves *

quote:

ORIGINAL: GlobalSkulls

They can always say no, the only reason one would not walk away is fear of the doms doing something life threatening to them.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 6:58:18 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GlobalSkulls

They can always say no, the only reason one would not walk away is fear of the doms doing something life threatening to them.

what about the loss of self worth for putting so little into the relationship as to think that once things started to go wrong all they had to do was 'walk away'?

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 7:02:24 PM

Petruchio

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We used to have discussions in college, i.e., the posit being if a sub gives her persmission to be dominated, then isn't the sub the one in control? One of those 'endless mirrors' type of questions.

Then I pulled her across my knee and we were both happy.

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/7/2006 11:05:35 PM

veronicaofML

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From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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My goodness. Your profile says that you are owned and now you have clarified for us that it is all YOUR way, YOUR game, YOUR rules and YOUR happiness.

Interesting.
==============

yeah i thought it interesting too...thats why i do it MY way......
ALL SERVICE.............no sex--no s/m---no romance......if i cant have it MY way i dont want it.!!!
i am just a-hired-hand---i am just---the house grunt...no more no less.
if its a dirty job...its MY job..........
so yep
MY way

as to that gas? i couldnt tell ya...that was a lifetime ago....close to 40 yrs ago...
but it IS truth..it came out in a science digest journal of the time...
there IS 'a' form of gas and 'a' form of matter that doesnt change at the speed of light...and that WAS as "I" was taught...how the theory goes..
energy=mass times the speed of light squared...
E=MC2

later

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/8/2006 1:55:10 AM

watchersgirl

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Well, if a slave is being abused by his/her dom(me), I hope he/she has the sense to say "Fuck you," and walk out. I think the positions of both dominant and sub or slave need to be earned with mutual respect and trust. A slave who stays with a dom(me), gives all of him/herself, lets herself be shaped by his/her dom(me)'s desires is truly submitting, IMO, and the dominant who's consistent, maybe pushes the sub/slave's limits, but doesn't abuse him/her is being a dominant. I always avoid the words "real" and "true" b/c people have different definitions. I remember how much the notion of a "real dom" got laughed at on ssbb on Usenet b/c the doms claiming to be "real doms" were obviously jerks with no consideration for their subs (to the point of abuse) and no understanding of the dynamics of power *exchange*. "Real" and "true" are up to the people in question; there's no one right way to do d/s.

You mentioned the slave walking away. What if it's the dominant who ends the relationship? There are any number of commitments people make to other people, and they end up not fulfilling them. Is a dominant who gets tired of a sub or slave or decides that the relationship is too much effort or has found a new sub/slave who appeals to him/her more than the current one a real dominant?

Yes, the *consent* of the sub or slave is a type of power. And consent is also a concept with flexible definitions and boundaries. But if a dom(me) is engaging in abusive and nonconsensual behavior toward the slave (like locking her up and preventing him/her from leaving), then, IMO, that's not BDSM, that's just plain abuse, the kind that occurs far too often in "vanilla" marriages. It seems to me that a d/s relationship is a *mutual* one. And abuse ain't consensual or mutual or a power *exchange*.

_____________________________

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."--William Blake

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes)"--Walt Whitman

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/8/2006 2:02:46 AM

watchersgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

You haven't met the right people then. I would'nt walk from my dom. No matter what happened. Believe me severe things have happened over the year's. I made a committment to him. I happen to know what committment means.
Perhap's that is the issue. Not enough people know what it means?

No matter what happened? I think you could be setting yourself up for major injuries or worse. You haven't described what you mean by severe. And making a commitment is important. But more important than your own well-being or life? What if you get a broken bone or your face smashed in? You say not enough people know what commitment means. Maybe not enough people know what self-preservation and staying alive means. Do you really think a person should stick to a commitment even if that commitment is putting him/her in the hospital every other week?

_____________________________

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."--William Blake

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes)"--Walt Whitman

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RE: Is It Truly Domination? - 1/8/2006 8:09:12 AM

fyreredsub

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the last consent i gave was YES MASTER, the rest is up to him.this girl is not a sub that sets the limits,there is no safe words when i dont want to anymore,i can only say if it is something wrong...and then it is still Masters choice.you have seen far too many of my posts Master Petruchio, in the gor section, to know that i am not a sub,i am a slave and to understand how my somewhat- still -in- learning thinking goes. ask Master,lol, he is the one in charge, or i wouldn't be his

lol @OTK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

We used to have discussions in college, i.e., the posit being if a sub gives her persmission to be dominated, then isn't the sub the one in control? One of those 'endless mirrors' type of questions.

Then I pulled her across my knee and we were both happy.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to Petruchio)

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