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Opinions - 1/7/2006 7:25:17 PM

PlayfulOne

Posts: 1047
Status: offline

About 6 months ago I beca,e friends with a sub and we moved on to playpartners. During this time we discussed her becoming mine. We had one small issue, I like longer hair on my females and she had hers in this neat little bob cut. I told her from the start if we were going to become more than friends and play partners she would have to grow it out. She thought I was being shallow, I reponded yes but since it is about the only thing I am shallow about she would just have to live with it, or keep things the way they are. She turns up one day with her hair freshly styled and cut then proceeds tp turn the conversation towards ownership. I told her at that point I felt that cutting her hair before that conversation made a statment and we should reduce things to only being friends. She then left in a huff and we stopped speaking to one another.

Fastforward 2 days ago, I received an email with a pic of her hair grown out asking to come back. I responded that in the time she has been gone I have become involved with a wonderful little girl and don't think takng her back is an option. She suggested I keep both of them. Now I know my little one has poly leanings and would be open to the idea, but I don't feel this situation would be in any way fair to her. It would set a bad example that the rules can be followed as the sub chooses and would render everything my current sub has done and given to me meaningless. The former friend and myself have talked a few times and the last one she was very upset and told me I was beng unreasonable.

If I was still without sub I might entertain the idea, but there would be much hoop jumping for her to earn her way back. I don't see anyway at this time anything more than friendship would be possible without making the contributions of my current little one meaningless.

Am I being unreasonable?

Kyle

Post #: 1

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 7:29:13 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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Not the way I see it. I see you as being very reasonable, upfront, and honest. And while your current submissive might have leanings towards Poly, that does not change the fact that your friend is trying to run the relationship with you.

/shrug

thats just my opinion though

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 2

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 7:40:00 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I think only you can really decide if your being reasonable! That is being Reasonalbe to you, First! I must say that I applaud your dismissal of the girl in the first place. As you said, she thought and I am sure others might think you where shallow. But, in my opinion, you are sticking to your guns of what you wanted.. the reasons are not important... they are your reasons and you have to live with them. Which brings me to your current situation... you have to live with the decision you make.... so it doesn't mattter who things your reasonable or unreasonable... you and the ones under your care have to live with the decision/choice that you make. Personally, I would trust your instincts in this... I wouldn't want to sway you from what your already leaning towards.... and that is because of my appreication of living in a poly relationship. It is hard enough to make a poly relationship successful and vibrant when multiples come together in the best of circumstances. Your concerns of her fit into the relationship could in fact be critical in if it would be a wise match or not. I would also add that finding a solid foundation in your current relationship might me more prudent before you seek to stretch it out (it is my impression your current relationship is still rather new).

Trust your instincts!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 3

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 8:00:23 PM

PlayfulOne

Posts: 1047
Status: offline

Iriish, your right she tried to control the situation and it backfired on her, now she wants to come bck on the "I made a mistake platform"

KOM,
Thank you for your input. I have run a poly house before and it takes the right mix to make it work. This is not it. There was a purposeful flaunting of the only deal breaker I gave her the first time. I would be a fool to just completely overlook that now. My little one and I are happy and while we enjoy interacting with others I am not looking to add to the family.

K

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 4

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 8:43:36 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

I don't think it is a question of reasonable vs unreasonable, but one of desire. It doesn't sound like you are terribly interested in having her back. You have moved on and although the photo of the grown out hair is a nice gesture, it doesn't make sense to disrupt your life, create hoops for her, etc. If the hair is the ONLY thing preventing you from considering a relationship, then it does seem a bit unreasonable to me considering the circumstances (she never specifically agreed not to cut her hair) and her effort to correct her actions. I suspect it is not the only issue though. And more importantly, it is your opinion on the reasonableness that matters.

I have a casual Dom play partner who has also been somewhat of a mentor to me. The term mentor is quite overused but it is the best I can come up with. Anyway, as our relationship began he asked for a symbol of commitment to the relationship and its dynamic, selecting not cutting my hair. I have very short hair and he chose that for several reasons, the primary being his preference for girls with longer hair. However, there was additional significance. For me, it was a difficult thing to agree to and hard to follow through with as well. I did show up at his place a few weeks back with my hair looking as absolutely dreadful as possible, with hideous hair clips, and requested permission for a shaping-that-might-require-slight-trimming. He said no AND made me fix my hair (the best I could) before all of us could leave for an event that night. I thought he was quite "unreasonable" with the denial, but kept quiet and never considered cutting it anyway. The next morning he laughed at my out-of-the-shower look and relented - granting permission for bangs only, slightly trimmed. This did not make me lose respect for him or give me the impression he could be manipulated or any similar thing.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 5

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 8:51:38 PM

MadelineSerenity

Posts: 24
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline

you are definitely not being unreasonable. she was very aware of your feelings on the subject of hair (by the way, if she thought hair was a shallow point, then she should not have thrown a fit about growing it out), and she still strayed from your wishes. that is most likely a sign of things to come - she may not be completely committed.

_____________________________

"there is no god. there is only what you want."

(in reply to Sensualips)

Post #: 6

RE: Opinions - 1/7/2006 8:56:59 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Frankly I don't think either of you was being unreasonable originally -- you wanted longer hair, she wanted shorter; you weren't a match apparently. My gut says that if it isn't hair it would be something else you'd have preferences or rules about and that she'd purposely push them from time to time.

So the answer to your question then may be the answer to this question: Do you want to be in a relationship where your authority is pushed from time to time or one where it is respected all the time?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 7

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 8:38:29 AM

sudja

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Not the way I see it. I see you as being very reasonable, upfront, and honest. And while your current submissive might have leanings towards Poly, that does not change the fact that your friend is trying to run the relationship with you.

/shrug

thats just my opinion though

Can't we also see this as the #1 woman going through a period of growth/acceptance where she finally got to the place where she was ready, willing, and able to submit to him? That's not to say that he was required to wait for her. He certainly was not. But if he is interested in more than one it might be that she is ready to be that second one.

sudja

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 8

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 8:44:51 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne
If I was still without sub I might entertain the idea, but there would be much hoop jumping for her to earn her way back.

Hell, this is one of the best possible situation in which to acquire a sub. If she really wants to belong to you, she will jump through the hoops, and that, itself, can be a blast.

You, my friend, have hand, use it.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 9

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 8:47:43 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

She stands up and applauds! Bravo! I do not think you are being shallow at all, if you decide later on that poly is how you want to proceed, it should be between you and the current sub to interview and decide---and taking the other sub in could set your house up for more challenges and drama then you are prepared for--I dismissed a sub for a similar reason, I insist on daily contact, email, IM or phone call---it would work for a day or two then nothing, often for days on end--he said I was being unreasonable to look at all the other things--if one cannot follow a Dominants wishes on the small things--there may be issues on the big ones--I don't bend on certain core commands.

It sounds like you have a good sub right now, I'd say two words to the other one, Bye Bye.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 10

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 8:51:31 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Can't we also see this as the #1 woman going through a period of growth/acceptance where she finally got to the place where she was ready, willing, and able to submit to him? That's not to say that he was required to wait for her. He certainly was not. But if he is interested in more than one it might be that she is ready to be that second one.

sudja

It's a possibility yes. But going on just the information that was provided, the opinion I form of her is not one of a person who has grown, and accepted her place in life.

quote:

She suggested I keep both of them.

quote:

The former friend and myself have talked a few times and the last one she was very upset and told me I was beng unreasonable.

Just these two sentences right here suggest, to me anyway, that she is still trying to call the shots.

It is just my perspective though.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to sudja)

Post #: 11

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 8:56:59 AM

MistressYlwa

Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

I would have a problem taking back a sub who had refused to submit earlier. My concern would be whether the situation would occur again over something else.

Personally, I would be happy with what I have. As far as a poly, I would look for someone who was suitable to myself and my slave. My #1 is just that and their input is important. I have no desire to live in a home filled with friction.

Mistress Ylwa

_____________________________

Mistress Ylwa

You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 12

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:08:05 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Not the way I see it. I see you as being very reasonable, upfront, and honest. And while your current submissive might have leanings towards Poly, that does not change the fact that your friend is trying to run the relationship with you.

/shrug

thats just my opinion though

Can't we also see this as the #1 woman going through a period of growth/acceptance where she finally got to the place where she was ready, willing, and able to submit to him? That's not to say that he was required to wait for her. He certainly was not. But if he is interested in more than one it might be that she is ready to be that second one.

sudja

Horsehockey!! If she wasn't able to acquiesce to his dominance with a simple hair rule before, how does her growing her hair out show that she's ready to submit now? IMO, make her hoop jump, man. Make her show that if she's "ready" to submit she needs to prove it and keep proving it.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to sudja)

Post #: 13

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:15:09 AM

redheadedfire4u

Posts: 104
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

It has taken years to grow my hair, I keep it a deeper darker red than it is naturally and I love it so ... but if He asked me to cut it, restyle it, eeek change the color ... I would probably sulk but if it is what He felt would please Him I would do it without question ... Hell if He told me to on a whim I would do it but I would not be happy lol

"Be careful what you wish for ... you might get it"
when you ask for a strong man that you can belong too.. well this saying is very apt when it comes to submission ... there is generally no half measures accepted in submission lol and rarely second chances either

Perhaps Your answer to her will help her to take things more seriously when her next opportunity for happiness knocks, in this way you are not only reasonable but helpful in her journey.

just annother perspective, and only my opinon

warm smiles to all

_____________________________

Driver1961's girl "wild child" and loving sister to His angel

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 14

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:24:46 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I pretty well have to agree with what appears to be the general concensus, you made a good call and it was obvious she did not understand the meaning of submission. We had a sub in the past which had her hair dyed black..after she came to live with us we made an appointment for her and accompanied her to the beauty shop. When she was asked about the color, we designated what we wanted. Althought we did get an odd glance from the beautician, the sub willingly agreed to the change. That is how it should work in my estimation. With your fast forward example, yes, perhaps she has had misgivings about her previous behaviour, but I also have to agree with another poster about, will it just happen again on another issue...hmmm. I don't know that I would completely rule her out as a poly potential in the future, if that is YOUR desire, but I do think the "jump through hoops" exercise might be in order to see if the lesson stuck. Again..only if it's your idea and only on youtr terms though. The last thing a poly household needs to weather is someone coming from the outside thinking they can minipulate the rules from what the Dominant(s) have set.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 15

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:26:13 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

IMO, make her hoop jump, man. Make her show that if she's "ready" to submit she needs to prove it and keep proving it.

Hoop jumping tests?....really now? IMO submission is something that is either given or it's not. I don't need to have my submission tested at every turn. If you are the person I wish to be submissive to, you get it all the way....no need for tests. If I had an issue with a request I would communicate my concerns and allow the decision to be made with that consideration. Clearly, the woman that the OP is referring to is not of that mindset. To me though, if my Dominant felt a need for reassurance of my submission by a pass/fail test system it would say to me that he was insecure in his own abilities as a Dominant. Just my opinion.......

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 16

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:42:06 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

I told her from the start if we were going to become more than friends and play partners she would have to grow it out. She thought I was being shallow, I reponded yes but since it is about the only thing I am shallow about she would just have to live with it, or keep things the way they are. She turns up one day with her hair freshly styled and cut then proceeds tp turn the conversation towards ownership. I told her at that point I felt that cutting her hair before that conversation made a statment and we should reduce things to only being friends.

Ok, after re-reading this I am confused. Was there somewhere in here that I missed that this relationship had actually become more than just friends and play partners....or was there only talk of it moving in that direction someday?

If it had not become more than friends and play partners...then why on earth would outright submission and obedience even be expected? I have been growing my hair for a looooong time and I have to say that I would not be chopping it off because some guy at a play party told me to.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 17

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 9:46:53 AM

redheadedfire4u

Posts: 104
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

IMO, make her hoop jump, man. Make her show that if she's "ready" to submit she needs to prove it and keep proving it.

Hoop jumping tests?....really now? IMO submission is something that is either given or it's not. I don't need to have my submission tested at every turn. If you are the person I wish to be submissive to, you get it all the way....no need for tests. If I had an issue with a request I would communicate my concerns and allow the decision to be made with that consideration. Clearly, the woman that the OP is referring to is not of that mindset. To me though, if my Dominant felt a need for reassurance of my submission by a pass/fail test system it would say to me that he was insecure in his own abilities as a Dominant. Just my opinion.......

I must admit I have a problem with the hoop jumping idea also, I would feel that I was not being taken seriously if I was to be continually tested. I would wonder if I was truely what He wanted. I would become insecure wondering when I would fail, if he wanted me to fail, eventually probably resentful that somehow my submission was found wanting.

I feel that the simple refusal on the grounds of not haviong submitted to His pleasure on the one thing He made perfectly clear from the begining would teach a valuable lesson and enhance the sub's journey but to reconsider and have her jump through hoops could cause damage in the long run to all concerned.

again just my opinon and annother perspective to think on
warm smiles to all

_____________________________

Driver1961's girl "wild child" and loving sister to His angel

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 18

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 10:58:11 AM

foxglove716

Posts: 648
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

She turns up one day with her hair freshly styled and cut then proceeds tp turn the conversation towards ownership. I told her at that point I felt that cutting her hair before that conversation made a statment and we should reduce things to only being friends. She then left in a huff and we stopped speaking to one another.

Are you kidding me? Shes playing games with you and its not Hungry Hungry Hippos. This is probably just the way she is and is not going to stop for you or anyone else. Do you really want to get yourself.... AND your current sub involved in this?

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 19

RE: Opinions - 1/8/2006 3:26:22 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

Some day, I hope to be able to find someone that will weigh the hundreds of things it takes to make a relationship, and base the entire fucking thing on hair length.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

Post #: 20

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