RE: Slaves with requirements... (Full Version)

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thetammyjo -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:32:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

Fine, 'own' your consentual slave all you want. BUT by the literal def . of a slave, they are NOT a slave-they are a submissive. AGAIN I ask, were there any conditions attached to 1800s slavery? The fact that it's illegal in the USA today is irrelevant-it does not change the dictionary def. of what a slave is. Not to mentiuon that BDSM is illegal in much of the world-and slavery is still legal in parts of the world too!


Where did I say they were not people? Of course they are people..BUT AGAIN I SAY, by the actual def. of what a slave is they are ALSO property! They have no rights.  The fact that no one owns them only means that they are available for ANYONE to own them. Back to the 1800s again. Were those cotton pickers not people? yet, they HAD no rights or privliges! What about prisoners? Do they not have their rights taken away? Yes, most of them have committed crimes, but it seems that practically every day we hear about someone innocent in prison that was put there wrongly.  Are those innocent prisoners not legal slaves?

Again, let's go back to 1800s America. Slaves there had no input/choice on who owned them. They even had ownership papers, much like the title of a car.  How does you (and other's) nasty, insulting comments to me change what Webster's definition of a slave is?



Actually all slave-owning societies throughout history had a lot of rules about slave owning -- who could own, how slaves were to be treated, and even ways out for slaves. These were complex rules both legal and social and deviation from them by the owner could bring about dire consequences and ridicule from their peers if not legal actions against them.

Again you're use a historical and institutional definition to discuss a subculture's use of a term. You can argue this all you like but it does change the fact that for many people the term feel right to them for whatever reason.

Better to just decide how you will use those and then find partners who also use them that way. Or you can start your own sub-subculture and use the words you want and who knows, maybe in a hundred years that will win out.

I'm not thrilled either but some of the words we use as subculture, hell, as a culture I'm annoyed by a lot of words we use. I have to accept that I can work toward change best within myself and my family first. If I dislike a word, we don't use it, period.




MistressAinCT -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:32:43 PM)

I think I would get better service from a slave if s/he had discretion about whom s/he serves.  I wouldn't want someone who will serve anyone just because they carry a whip and call themselves Dominant...

Your thinking is very-archaic in nature.  Slaves haven't been "property" since the end of the civil war. 

In the law, animals are considered property.  If an animal (pet) is killed by a person, no one goes to jail for murder but they do get fined. My animals are MY FAMILY but legally, they are just belongings.  By your definition of slave as property, if one of your slaves is killed, they are just a "thing"?  Would you cry or just say "eh, I'll get another one to replace *it" ?

Its one thing to be a stoic Dominant, to stand ground, to be strict, tough, and sometimes merciless.  Its another to be so cold your nips are on permanent attention. 




Gwynvyd -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:33:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

<-- doesn't want to get warned again about hijacking but is having a great time with "free range" slaves! *snort* all i can say is talk about humiliation games and the definition of kinky... *snort*


*snickers*

The feather is erotic.. the whole chicken is kinky.

Gwyn




surelyujest71 -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:34:02 PM)

quote:

a freed slave (one with their papers) can choose to stay free or can offer themselves back on the market.


Pretty much my point.  I think.  I may have other points around here.... hmm.




surelyujest71 -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:36:41 PM)

quote:

My animals are MY FAMILY but legally, they are just belongings.


Very true.  You can't seem to claim a pet cat or dog as being a "dependant."  :p 




thetammyjo -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:37:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: surelyujest71

Perhaps if we look into the more distant past, we can find a definition of "slave" which fits better?

In ancient Rome and Greece, slavery wasn't racially biased.  It simply meant that a person was owned by another person.  The slave's actions were considered to reflect upon the Master.  And, while some slaves were kept more or less as concubines, others were kept to keep house, or help with the household's income.  Many were some sort of combination of these.  "BDSM" as we know it usually didn't apply... we can be fairly sure that if a slave in those times were abused, he or she would either roll over and die, or get up and run.  (unless they liked it.... fetishes existed back then, too, right? ;) ) 

In current times, involuntary slavery is limited to a few areas of the world; usually in 3rd world nations.  In Brazil, once you get away from "civilization," there are some who manage their wealth by enslaving the natives, and anyone else who happens to be convenient.  I'm sure similar things happen elsewhere.  These sorts of slaves only exist to help build the Owner's wealth.  Although, a few might be picked out of the herd to act as a household maid, or concubine.  To my understanding, this category of slaves are often roughly treated, no matter their preferences in the matter.

To me, I prefer the first category - the ancients' concept.  Brought forward to today, and adding in free consent on the part of the slave... it's often more erotic, but also a very stable situation.  And hey!  Slaves have always come with a price tag, right?  In our subculture, the price tag includes consent.

Hopefully I haven't re-written someone else's point... I've only read page 4 of this thread.  :p



I think this is a decent description of slavery in these historical and institutional context. Good job.




aravain -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:38:24 PM)

Something like "The definition of insanity is repeating the same task over and over again and expecting different results" I believe. *goes back to reading*

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

It is apparent it isn't working too well.

What is that saying about.....something about making the same mistake over and over again......? Doing the same thing and getting the same result? Expecting a different result...

It escapes me. The decongestant is wearing off.




AquaticSub -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:39:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: surelyujest71

quote:

My animals are MY FAMILY but legally, they are just belongings.


Very true.  You can't seem to claim a pet cat or dog as being a "dependant."  :p 



No, though that would be nice. You can get insurence for them now though! *ponders what slave insurence would entail... *




littlewonder -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:40:10 PM)

Yup, you're right in the definition of a "slave" but it's 2009--not 1809.

So unless you live in a third world country where it's still not legal but turned a blind eye to or you have an illegal underground business of slavery going on...I'd say your definition just won't hold up in most societies today.

So go ahead..if you still want a "slave" then by all means, take your pick of any single one you want...I mean they're free for the taking. But I suspect you'd have a lot of freetime on your hands in a jailcell as someone else's slave.

Just a thought....




ThundersCry -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:45:51 PM)

They may be property but they are not...yours...
 
Personally...I like the ones that are picky...
 
I am...




surelyujest71 -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:47:31 PM)

Ah, I think you misunderstood me.  My meaning was more that the ancient definition seems to fit the current concept closer.  Anyone who wishes to pick up slaves based on "I'll take that one!" is a bit off, in my book.  Off their rocker, off the map, off their meds.... lol.  I think I also mentioned that the "price" to purchase a slave, within our own subculture, is consent... which isn't necessarily easily come by.  Hopefully not too easily come by; if too easy, can it be fully Trusted?




SassySarijane -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Ya know reading these kinds of threads is a great way to pull out the weeds



*grins* Ain't it though?

On the other hand, it can show the ones that might fit as friends or more too. All in how you look at it.




SassySarijane -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:53:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild



And what the hell is wrong if a person desires to call themselves a slave or submissive or even a piece of fuckmeat?  I have every right to call myself a sub or even  a white assed honky manlover in just the same way that Sari has the right to call herself a masochistic pain loving wench.


*laughing* Bear, you sooo ROCK!!! I just love how you compliment me! [8D] And your self description is hot!!




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 4:58:29 PM)

Uh no, that would be role playing Gorean.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

You're probably looking for Gor, that's a couple of solar systems over.




DrkJourney -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:01:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

More and more, I see people who call themselves slaves claiming that they only want women...or men...or couples. I have always believed that slaves are property, just like a house or a car. I don't see my car refusing to start for only one sex-so how can a slave make any decision as to who owns them?

The definition of slave from Answers.com is as follows:  
"One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household."

Property....right?

I'm interested in what the rest of you think.


I've only read your question so if this has already been asked I apologise....but, by your question do you mean that a Dominant should be able to come on a site like this and cruise profiles and just pick anyone that they want that has he "label" slave and said person has no choice what so ever....they are to pack up and move and do whatever you say?

I'm not flaming or mocking, I"m honestly trying to understand exactly what you are asking.




Maszy -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:05:35 PM)

I believe since times have changed so much,there should actually be an application process to this.People are people and should be where they want to be.If someone is unhappy with there situation ,really no one gains.Yes slaves are slaves and we do have laws,that probley could use some change,so why not only basically apply or hire where placement is suited?I really wish there were contracts for the "willing" and upholdable contracts.It would just make our world SO much easier.!!!




Gwynvyd -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:06:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Uh no, that would be role playing Gorean.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

You're probably looking for Gor, that's a couple of solar systems over.



*nods* This reminds me of the Gor RPG's online where the newbie would walk in and command every one with a female name, or Kajira to "Bow before them" and do the whole "On your knees bitch" thing. You get laughed at for pulling that online... can you imagine in the real world?

It just still really boggles my mind as to who would do that in the really real world to another person who has zip for interest in them.

Appaerntly rape and kidnapping is not beyond some people.

Gwyn




Maszy -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:10:15 PM)

Ps  Your a trip either way!!!!!  Love it!!!




kyraofMists -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:10:15 PM)

~Fast reply

With all these car and slave likenesses going on here, can someone tell me what it means when the slave goes out to start the car and it doesn't start?  Remote start wouldn't work and neither would the key?  I mean did master's truck spend the afternoon being a hussy and is now too tired to take the slave anywhere??

Knight's Kyra




AquaticSub -> RE: Slaves with requirements... (1/21/2009 5:12:10 PM)

That or means you need to go be a hussy for your master. [;)]




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