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RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 4:18:06 PM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I actually never thought of saying it that way Cali. Men always ALWAYS ask why when I reject them. And I tell them exactly why.

Edit: And I don't say it in an insensitive way. If I think they're ugly I simply say "I'm not attracted to you." if theyre big I say "You're a little too big for me." And so on.

Now see, if I actually gave a reason (which I wouldn't) and they came back at me with a whiney, needy, guilt trip, I'd have to tell them that now I have 2 reasons to dump their pathetic arse.

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(in reply to rednicky)

Post #: 21

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 4:24:09 PM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

I learned in the vanilla world of online dating to never let guilt be a reason to not listen to my "inner judgement". After talking to a guy for a bit online, we moved to phone and he was ok, so i agreed to a date. He then berated me about how i should not judge based on just one date, alot of people are nervous or don't always put their best foot forward, it takes time to really get to know someone, etc.... Ok, at that point i should have realized there is a reason for this guilt trip. So i met him at a nice but not fancy restaurant in my town. He was totally not what i would be physically attracted to, but the fact that he dressed in grungy cutoffs and a t-shirt, left a $3 tip on a $35 check, was demanding to the waitress, and asked me questions but never gave me a chance to really answer....THOSE were the reasons he got no second date. And yes i worked with another waitress at the restaurant and sent the poor pregnant nice lady who waited on us $15 to make up for my own embarrassment for not handling it at the time.

I have grown to believe that sometimes telling the truth is beneficial, but mostly it is just us trying to make ourselves feel better for rejecting someone to whom we really owe nothing but casual politeness. Be honest at your own risk, and realize no matter what you say, those people into guilt trips, will still try to find a way to make you feel bad.

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Post #: 22

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 4:56:19 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Guilt is a useless emotion. Shame on the other hand is a more honest one. Did you compromise your ethics or morals to make a decision? If so, then it may be something to be ashamed of. If you did not, then you may want to ask yourself why you are feeling guilty. Guilt is often used by people to manipulate things or deflect responsibility on their part, which is what I see being done in the situation you describe.

Yes personality means a lot, as well as intelligence, humor, etc. but, if you are not physically attracted to someone it is damn hard to make a relationship work based upon those other things. It is a biological fact that chemical changes in the brain must occur based upon many physical aspects (sight, smell, sound, etc.), for there to be a foundation to base something on. The other way is to get to know a person for a long period of time, where the attraction becomes based upon a different priority.

I have no problem telling people I am not interested, and if they ask I tell them they are just not physically my type. Visual appeal means a lot to me, along with all of those other nice things too. I see no reason why I cannot have the whole package. Now given the choice between less attractive and better personality traits, and more attractive with worse personality traits, I would take the former. Again it is situational though, as each person is different.

Be discerning, be judgmental, be as strict as you can when selecting possible people to be involved in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

It's already been established that it's not right to judge someone based on certain physically features (especially one's that can't be changed). But I'm not really crazy about skinny, short, or 'ugly' men. What if someone throws that "Well while I respect your decision, I don't see how you could make it without knowing one thing about me. Last time I checked, looks didn't last forever anyway, yet you're willing to put it above all else." at you? Well see, now I feel guilty because he's right. Personality means a lot more than looks and excluding someone because of the way they look is not right. On the other hand...I don't want a ugly Dom! You can be as nice as you want to be. I still can't wake up to a werewolf. I guess my question is, how does one get over the guilt, stand by their physical standards, and still manage to not feel like a monster for turning down a perfectly good guy just because he doesn't look that great (unattractive, fat, skinny, balding, short, old, etc...)?

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Post #: 23

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:13:10 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Oh well then it's just a case of them trying to save their pathetic egos and making YOU the problem, and/or trying to bait you into responding and then shame you into submission.

It's a weak mans game no matter which way, so don't enter the ring.

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Post #: 24

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:15:35 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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Honestly, dating is a shallow process whether it's here or in the common world. The first thing that leads us to talk to someone is typically something physical. The people that we fall in love with outside of their appearance are usually people that we get to know through other scope than "the dating game". They are people that we fall in love with after knowing them at Church, or working with them for years, or sharing some common activity, or talking with them on the bus... things that don't revolve around getting caught up in appearances, and open us up to people.

There is a huge debate about whether BDSM is "about sex", and the truth is, it is for some folks, and isn't for others. For me, my fetish play is about art and sensation. My controlling behaviors are a personal characteristic, regardless of sexuality, so for me, my part in WIITWD has nothing to do with sex, per se. Because of that, I have a really liberal scope of people that I'm willing to encounter for play or service... I'm not planning on romancing them, dating them, or (all planes of existence forbid) marrying/binding myself to them, or having sex with them, so if they're not perfect sexual specimens... Oh well.

Many of the folks here are here to -date-. They want someone to love, to fuck, to marry... and for many people on that track, the physical is really important.

Do I have a physical body type that really just trips my trigger every single time?... OH YES. Think Vin Diesl, Lawrence Fishburne, Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) and my beloved Ebony... Can I have happy, luscious, horrifically entertaining sex with someone who doesn't meet my ideal? Oh, yeah, I can do that, too. Even when what I'm doing -is- about sex for me, I'm still pretty open-minded about possibilities... but I think that's because a long time ago, I gave up the idea that I even really knew, for sure, what was going to be perfect for me. I've had so many experiences that were NOTHING like what I expected, that I think I've stopped trying to plan my joy, and just let it happen -- but that isn't "normal". Most folks are pretty focused on what they think they want... sometimes so focused that they miss out on what they really would have liked.

Yes, I know I'm rambling... I guess the point is that I guess that guilt is something we choose to experience... a way of placing the blame for our fear of the potential repercussions of our most difficult decisions on someone else's shoulders.

You chose to send this person on his way because he didn't meet your criteria. Your criteria are yours... either you respect yourself and when you choose to abide by them, you are unashamed because you are being true to yourself, or you fail to respect yourself and let others second guess your reasoning and make you feel bad about your decisions. Sometimes, you'll make a mistake. Maybe this guy would be the best thing that ever happened to you... but you made the decision you made, and it shows a lack of respect on his part that he would attempt to manipulate that decision... and a measure of insecurity on yours that you would allow it. Were it me, I would have returned his comment with "Yes, perhaps you're right. You may be my secret Adonis... but I'm afraid that my decision is final, and I'll just have to miss out, if that's what it would have been. Se la vie."

_____________________________

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Post #: 25

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:28:30 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Why did you feel it necessary to tell him WHY you were rejecting him? Wouldn't, "Thank you for your interest, I'm looking in other directions right now, good luck on your search" have been enough? You told him he was too ugly for you?

Sometimes compassion goes a long way.

Cali

Yes Cali, you do rock. That is a great answer, even for a guy. As for a first date being enough, last week, I paid the bartender to call my cell and tell me I had an emergency at home. It wasn't her looks, it was her whining and her insistance that I commit to marriage if things went good for us. THIS WAS FIRST DATE. So, I guess I was shallow too.

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Post #: 26

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:29:13 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

Now see, if I actually gave a reason (which I wouldn't) and they came back at me with a whiney, needy, guilt trip, I'd have to tell them that now I have 2 reasons to dump their pathetic arse.

Yup. Right on both counts.

What kind of lame-ass "Dom' is so insecure that they can't tip their hat to you on the way out and move on?

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 27

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:33:44 PM

BondageBarbieX

Posts: 495
Joined: 4/1/2008
Status: offline

Oh.I agree with you.I will not have an ugly Dom..I used to have it in my profile when I was looking that 'I do not fuck ugly!'

(in reply to rednicky)

Post #: 28

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:38:34 PM

MsFlutter

Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Well... lol... you could say... You know, you make sense and I think I must rethink how I look at things... however... since you said it in such a way that it seems you use guilt to teach, I would not make a good match for you. Personally I would have to address his manipulation to get him sum.

Oooooooooooooooo - you are GOOD !! I like ! I like !

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(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 29

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:40:22 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Awww... I sure am feeling the love today.

And for you wiseasses (holly), no, that was not sarcastic.

Cali

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(in reply to MidMichCowboy)

Post #: 30

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 5:48:59 PM

MsFlutter

Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

It's already been established that it's not right to judge someone based on certain physically features (especially one's that can't be changed). But I'm not really crazy about skinny, short, or 'ugly' men. What if someone throws that "Well while I respect your decision, I don't see how you could make it without knowing one thing about me. Last time I checked, looks didn't last forever anyway, yet you're willing to put it above all else." at you? Well see, now I feel guilty because he's right. Personality means a lot more than looks and excluding someone because of the way they look is not right. On the other hand...I don't want a ugly Dom! You can be as nice as you want to be. I still can't wake up to a werewolf. I guess my question is, how does one get over the guilt, stand by their physical standards, and still manage to not feel like a monster for turning down a perfectly good guy just because he doesn't look that great (unattractive, fat, skinny, balding, short, old, etc...)?

This dovetails into a similar discussion from a couple weeks ago

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2383462/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#2384055

_____________________________

'Dont torture yourself, Gomez darling. That's my job' Morticia Addams

"The right data, filtered through an idiot, can yield a bad answer." einstien5201

(in reply to rednicky)

Post #: 31

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 6:04:41 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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Guilt trip like that don't work on me, why because I admit and accept this about myself, that if I'm attracted to somebody I am, If I'm not attracted to somebody I'm not. It's ok to have personal perferences ranging from the breakfast cereal you eat, toothpaste you use and various phyiscal qualities that attract you or not.

Some brands of toothpaste are really crappy in my opinion so why should I settle on using them when I enjoy other brands that taste better.

(in reply to rednicky)

Post #: 32

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 6:22:53 PM

beth314

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/7/2009
Status: offline

The loosers guilt trip must have worked at some point. Kinda makes you wonder what is so jacked up about a person that it makes them perfect the art of manipulation to get laid. We all get them... the whiny crying babies with the love me for whats on the inside. BS! Something on the outside has got to grab your attention enough to make you want to know who they are on the inside.

beth

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Post #: 33

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 7:22:22 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

For me it's all a matter of perspective, if I reject someone, my sense of decency dictates thay I will do so as gently as is reasonable and make a rteasonable attempt not to dammage their egos or self esteem. However if they want to try guilt tripping me, I'll choke slam the gluit tip down their throats and give them a taste of humiliation, publically if needs be. They ask for it I give it to them in spades.

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Post #: 34

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 7:38:20 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
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There are all sorts of reasons a woman might turn me down, and I understand that. At the same time, there are all sorts of reasons I might turn a woman down. Hopefully, she would understand that as well. One woman I really, really wanted to be close to only wanted me as a friend. I couldn't change that. I knew we would be perfect for each other. But I couldn't change that. So I stopped trying. We drifted apart. She writes and says she misses spending time with me. But it hurt too much to be near her because I felt about her one way that she would never feel in return. Unfortunately, you can't stop the other person from feeling the way he or she does, and as a result, you can't control the future of the interaction between you. I know she wants me around as the "friend", but that's not going to happen because I was never comfortable in that context.

On a side note, it's kind of funny but in South Korea (where I am right now), there's a mindset that negates this kind of activity and interaction. If a man is enamored with a woman he practically stalks and harasses the hell out of her until she gives him a "chance". Even the legal system doesn't protect women here from this. They say it's a "Korean custom". It's kind of shocking from an outsider's perspective.

But now back to the topic itself, which the thread has kind of derailed from, and I'm talking about guilt trips. I have people who try doing this to me all of the time, and it drives me batty. I have one person who calls me and lays a guilt trip on me all the time, but not about dating, but about all sorts of other things to see if she can get me to do things that need to be done for her. I'd be fine if she'd just ask me straight-out, but she does it as a guilt trip instead. I also have a boss here in Korea who tries guilt trips all the time to see if he can get me to work on my weekends. Guilt trips don't work on me, and I think people get a bit frustrated because they have to come straight out and ask me for what they want rather than do the guilt trip thing. But I realized a long time ago people take advantage of you whenever they can; I just closed off one of those avenues. Now, if I was serving a woman, she can take all sorts of advantage of me, and I won't complain once, but when there's no service dynamic, I don't let it happen.

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Post #: 35

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 7:40:02 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

That's kinda my thinking on it, IronBear and may I say you have such a way with words *grin*. I try to be nice in refusing someone or ending something, but if that is met with nastiness or guilt trip attempts then all bets are off and my niceness takes a vacation where they are concerned.

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Post #: 36

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 9:46:17 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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I'm going to take a bit of a different angle on this. What about you makes you feel guilty? I don't think this is a healthy or appropriate guilt (Not being interested in a person I mean); what compromises your right of refusal?
Davan

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Post #: 37

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 10:33:57 PM

Petruchio

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Go gently into the night.

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Post #: 38

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 11:38:36 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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Actually I feel it's perfectly acceptable to judge people, even if it's something they can't change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

It's already been established that it's not right to judge someone based on certain physically features (especially one's that can't be changed). But I'm not really crazy about skinny, short, or 'ugly' men. What if someone throws that "Well while I respect your decision, I don't see how you could make it without knowing one thing about me. Last time I checked, looks didn't last forever anyway, yet you're willing to put it above all else." at you? Well see, now I feel guilty because he's right. Personality means a lot more than looks and excluding someone because of the way they look is not right. On the other hand...I don't want a ugly Dom! You can be as nice as you want to be. I still can't wake up to a werewolf. I guess my question is, how does one get over the guilt, stand by their physical standards, and still manage to not feel like a monster for turning down a perfectly good guy just because he doesn't look that great (unattractive, fat, skinny, balding, short, old, etc...)?

(in reply to rednicky)

Post #: 39

RE: When someone throws a guilt trip your way - 1/21/2009 11:56:59 PM

Carnae7

Posts: 72
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: offline

ROTFLMFAO!!!! Some of these responses are just bustin' me right up! LMAO!!!

But seriously for a minute, dear Rednicky - first - guilt trips are too damned expensive!!! Tell them you can't afford it! It's waaaay above your emotional budget!! That's to handle whomever is on your case at this point.

Second - You gave toooooo much info! I mean, there's honesty, and then there's honesty with tact! The tactful part is to be as brief as possible and not give them anything they can use to try to make you change your mind. Two examples are: 'I'm sorry but this isn't a fit for me.'; & 'Something about this just doesn't work for me.' Of course, change the wording to fit for yourself. The thing is, you DO NOT have to make excuses for the way you feel, because feelings are neither right nor wrong, they just are what they are. And don't say things that they can argue with you about, like the weight, looks, etc.

And for anyone who's reading this, I teach assertiveness training classes, and this is a classic move on the part of those who would be trying to manipulate us. While I have no issue with manipulation in general, it is the motive BEHIND the manipulation that I object to. A Dom who knows, loves and respects me, and has my besst interests at heart, can feel free to manipulate me. If however, a Dom is just trying to manipulate me so He can get His rocks off - No thanks! It doesn't work for me. I refuse to be anybody's 'night deposit box'!

Best of luck girl, and keep your chin up.
And thanks for the laughs E/everyone! LOL!!!

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Post #: 40

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