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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:21:00 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

Really, My view on gun control changed due to the fact that my Warden is an avid gun collector. He never shoots at anything but paper targets and he takes ownership very serously and does not keep guns loaded. He keeps them on the side. He is not a trigger happy person. He respects that its a deadly weapon. I appreciate this and he never had these guns when he had a child. He has said that if an intruder came in he would hope that the sound of him cocking the rifle would be enough.


I can't speak for everyone but if the guy is as you described then i have no problem with people like him having a gun. It's when they get into the wrong hands i have a problem.
Many who have posted on here and in previous gun threads have said they would have no problem shooting an intruder. I find that quite alarming! Ok you shouldn't be breaking into someones house but to be shot for it, hmm i have a problem with it.
Many incidents of people going crazy with guns (licence holders too) tells me gun laws and checks aren't enough to prove that a  person is suitable to be allowed a gun.
What the answer is i don't know other than banning civilians from carrying gun's. Then you'll have the illegal trading so not really a solution !!



But regardless of gun laws dont criminals still get guns illegally? There have been many raped and murdered during a home invation. A person should be able to protect themselves.

I personally dont own a gun.


Like i said at the bottom of my post yes there would still be illegal trading in gun's. For me the question would be 'would making  gun's illegal decrease gun crime /accidents etc?'. If the answer is yes then they should be illegal. If not then no, leave it as it stands. Its proving one way or the other that is the difficult thing.

I personally have been broken into, i woke to a man standing in my bedroom doorway. Did i need a gun to protect myself? NO. Would me wielding a gun have made the situation worse? Quite possibly. I strongly object to people saying they need a gun to defend themselves. 

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:31:10 AM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I personally have been broken into, i woke to a man standing in my bedroom doorway. Did i need a gun to protect myself? NO. Would me wielding a gun have made the situation worse? Quite possibly. I strongly object to people saying they need a gun to defend themselves. 


With all due respect to your break-in and horrendous situation (I remember reading the thread on it), what would you have done if the intruder was after hurting you?  If he'd had a gun or a knife or another weapon?  If I recall correctly, he stood in the doorway or hall for a bit then left on his own.  You can object to someone needing a gun to protect himself, but if someone is out to hurt you, you'd be in a better position to defend yourself if you had something to protect yourself other than kicking/screaming/running/fighting back.

I'm not a huge gun advocate, but I can understand having one to protect yourself in exactly these situations - break-ins, robberies, etc.  I'm also not for shooting first, asking questions later, but if a person has a gun then they should be prepared to use it if necessary, and if the criminal is threatening and not leaving, he should be prepared to suffer the consequences of his choices. 

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:33:49 AM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		What if they get your gun first? what if they are unarmed and manage to take it off you before you have used it?

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:52:24 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		"What if, what if...?"
Once someone *gets into your house* that is an *extremely dangerous situation!*
You don't "reason" with people who do that.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:53:04 AM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

What if they get your gun first? what if they are unarmed and manage to take it off you before you have used it?


Yes, that could happen.  There are no guarantees when in that situation, obviously.  I don't think there are any absolutes when discussing weapons - everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.  To me, I'd feel having a gun would at least give me a fighting chance of protecting myself ... others will feel differently.  I'm sure there are statistics to support each side.


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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:54:10 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"What if, what if...?"
Once someone *gets into your house* that is an *extremely dangerous situation!*
You don't "reason" with people who do that.


Yo pop the whole post was about what ifs, if I cant respond to a hypothetical with hypothetical then what can I respond with?

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:55:58 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		The word ' if  ' seems to be used a lot on this thread, it is not a case of  shit will happen , but if meaning it might or might not happen, so what we are talking about here, is hypothetical situations, not reality. How many people that advocate Britain  being allowed to have guns have been in a situation where the situation would have been made better if they had a gun ?

I have been in such a situation, attempted murder by four coke doped adults, but a gun would have been useless as I was attacked from behind and robbed, if I had a gun more than likely it would have been used on me, ever felt the strength in a doped up person, strength of ten they say, believe it and multiply by four. Oh, they tried to kill me because I fought back and broke one of their's nose, that was their defence when the law got them.


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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 11:57:23 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Like i said at the bottom of my post yes there would still be illegal trading in gun's. For me the question would be 'would making  gun's illegal decrease gun crime /accidents etc?'. If the answer is yes then they should be illegal. If not then no, leave it as it stands. Its proving one way or the other that is the difficult thing.

I personally have been broken into, i woke to a man standing in my bedroom doorway. Did i need a gun to protect myself? NO. Would me wielding a gun have made the situation worse? Quite possibly. I strongly object to people saying they need a gun to defend themselves. 


Chicago Illinois and Washington D.C. Have both had handgun bans since the early 80's and are consistantly in the top 3 murder capitals in the U.S.

If you Brits are happy living weaponless under your nanny government, with it's camera's everywhere, and Terrorists trying to blow up your "tube", more power to you. Some of us, otoh, prefer to keep the right our founding father's thought so important, that they listed it second, behind freedom of speech.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:01:18 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"What if, what if...?"
Once someone *gets into your house* that is an *extremely dangerous situation!*
You don't "reason" with people who do that.


Yo pop the whole post was about what ifs, if I cant respond to a hypothetical with hypothetical then what can I respond with?


Overwhelming force.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:01:57 PM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
If you Brits are happy living weaponless under your nanny government, with it's camera's everywhere, and Terrorists trying to blow up your "tube", more power to you. Some of us, otoh, prefer to keep the right our founding father's thought so important, that they listed it second, behind freedom of speech.


Oh yep because you dont have cameras and never have ever had a terrorist attack. But yup your brand of freedom is working much better

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:11:49 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
If you Brits are happy living weaponless under your nanny government, with it's camera's everywhere, and Terrorists trying to blow up your "tube", more power to you. Some of us, otoh, prefer to keep the right our founding father's thought so important, that they listed it second, behind freedom of speech.


Oh yep because you dont have cameras and never have ever had a terrorist attack. But yup your brand of freedom is working much better


Colouredin, my point is that no-one should be "required" to have a gun in England but that those who wish to do so should be able to.
What's "wrong" with that concept?
It doesn't "need" to be "all or none!"
That's just bad thinking!
How would you like it if a "neighborhood group" decided they didn't like the colo(u)r of your house and wanted you to paint it over?
Americans are more concious of "Freedom" it would seem than our English cousins.
To be honest I expect a little more from you guys over there.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:18:38 PM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		Im going to just leave you now Popeye, I have explained why I dont think joe bloggs should have the right to a gun, we have licencing laws so that people with reason do have guns. There is no point repeating the same argument. Just continue to think that we are sheltered and Ill stay here happy with my lower crime rates and safer streets.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:27:08 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Hmmm, that's true, aside from 9/11 and associated atrocities, the US has never been bombed by an outside aggressor, whereas we have  and for a good long time, shootings and bombings by terrorist organisations and the odd nut case with an agenda. There is also an issue with such weapons in the hands of terrorists, and I am thinking the provisional Irish republican army here, some I believe came from the middle east, but funding came from all sorts of unlikely sources. Noraid was mentioned at one time, as to whether it is true or not, as I understood their role was to achieve an aim by peaceful means, they were described by others, namely the unionists, the British government and the US government as a front for the provisionals.

So, we have been bombed and shot at by people with agendas and I suppose the cctv surveillance we have might be helpful in preventing these actions, we don't really know, perhaps there is a more sinister motive for the cameras, but do they bother me, nope, as I have nothing to hide.


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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:30:11 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Americans are more concious of "Freedom" it would seem than our English cousins.


...and yet, even in the US there is a debate on what freedom actually means. It is said that, 'your freedom ends where mine begins'. So, freedom isn't necessarily complete freedom, if freedom is to be available to the maximum number of people there needs to be a limit on it.
The UK has made the decision that the right to bear arms is on one side of the line, the US has decided on the other. It doesn't mean that either culture is more or less free....both consider themselves cultures defined by freedom. It's about a mismatch in what both cultures define freedom to be...

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 12:54:28 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Im going to just leave you now Popeye, I have explained why I dont think joe bloggs should have the right to a gun, we have licencing laws so that people with reason do have guns. There is no point repeating the same argument. Just continue to think that we are sheltered and Ill stay here happy with my lower crime rates and safer streets.


Sure Colouredin, "and may your chains set lightly upon you."

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 1:27:30 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

With all due respect to your break-in and horrendous situation (I remember reading the thread on it), what would you have done if the intruder was after hurting you?  If he'd had a gun or a knife or another weapon?  If I recall correctly, he stood in the doorway or hall for a bit then left on his own.  You can object to someone needing a gun to protect himself, but if someone is out to hurt you, you'd be in a better position to defend yourself if you had something to protect yourself other than kicking/screaming/running/fighting back.


Your recollection is wrong but no matter. He quite possibly was out to hurt us but i handled it the only way i felt was appropriate and luckily it was the right thing.
 
quote:

"What if, what if...?"
Once someone *gets into your house* that is an *extremely dangerous situation!*
You don't "reason" with people who do that.


I did !!
 
quote:

If you Brits are happy living weaponless under your nanny government, with it's camera's everywhere, and Terrorists trying to blow up your "tube", more power to you. Some of us, otoh, prefer to keep the right our founding father's thought so important, that they listed it second, behind freedom of speech.


As i have said before i have never come across a country fed so much crap and propoganda as the USA and they believe it. If you choose to believe that you really have liberty and freedom more fool you.
As for terrorists does America never have terrorist attacks on them?
 




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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 2:24:56 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Americans are more concious of "Freedom" it would seem than our English cousins.
To be honest I expect a little more from you guys over there.


So why have you got a prison population, five times the size of ours, per capita ?  Why is it a law in the US that cell phone companies must be able to pinpoint 95% of users to within 300 yards.

Page 18 and still not one person from the UK demanding the right to own guns. Kind of speaks for itself doesnt it, we feel safe enough without them.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 2:27:26 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Sure Colouredin, "and may your chains set lightly upon you."


The Patriot Act.


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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 2:30:25 PM   
ALAstella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


If you Brits are happy living weaponless under your nanny government, with it's camera's everywhere, and Terrorists trying to blow up your "tube", more power to you. Some of us, otoh, prefer to keep the right our founding father's thought so important, that they listed it second, behind freedom of speech.



Yeah right, for example freedom to choose a village idiot as a President and the freedom to vote him back in 4 years later.

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/24/2009 2:58:17 PM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Your recollection is wrong but no matter. He quite possibly was out to hurt us but i handled it the only way i felt was appropriate and luckily it was the right thing.
 
quote:



My apologies for getting it wrong! 

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