New Boys

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OttersSwim -> New Boys (1/24/2009 9:11:20 PM)
So I have heard and read a lot from the Mistresses here about frustrations meeting and connecting with new submissive males - everything from disappearing acts to laundry lists to "do me" mentality. I have been thinking on this and I realized that I was extremely lucky to have encountered my Lady when and how I did, and that she was so very understanding of the missteps and faux pas that a new boy can make and did not let them derail our budding relationship. In discussions with my Lady this evening, I realized that at the beginning... I didn't know what I didn't know And so I wonder if that is not the case with a LOT of the other males coming into this lifestyle - they don't know what they don't know and thus will make a lot of missteps like trotting out their laundry list when a Mistress asks "what can you do for me?", or coming off as more of a "do me" or "dull" personality because they are scared and unsure of what to say, and when to say it. And so I wanted to bring this up and encourage the Ladies here to examine what you are seeing/experiencing with some of the males you are dealing with and ask the question "Are they acting this way because they are new and don't understand the dynamic/lifestyle/situation and thus are unsure or scared?" and if the answer is yes...and you still want to continue with them then maybe..."How can I create a safe environment for them to grow and understand and be comfortable while still evaluating them for my needs?" I happen to believe that I am a fairly worthy submissive...but things could have gone very different for me and my Lady if she had not seen that I was new and had not been tolerant of the newbie junk that I did. And yes, I understand that there are plenty of scammers, wankers, and others that -do- know what they are about. You are all smart enough to ferret them out. [;)] But please give the new boys a break and forgive if they honestly misstep or overstep or tread on toes because they don't know what they don't know.. Not trying to be preachy at you all, just realization of my experience and good fortune and hopes of discussion. [:)]

BitchGoddessD -> RE: New Boys (1/24/2009 9:46:38 PM)
Do not take offense Otter for you often make good contributions to the Forum but .... I know always the but .... I believe there is much you don't know that you can never know about what it is like as a female dominant searching for a submissive. I can't explain it to you either. Believe me that I give everyone the opportunity to be themselves without censorship. It does not make a difference whether the first meet is online, by phone, or in person. I am tired of the bull. If someone needs to learn how to behave, there are the internet, books, munches, etc. I educated myself why can't they do the same? A lot boils down to common sense. If they don't have it, I'm not interested. As is said " you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink." I have seen people learn from their mistakes and grow. I have also seen those who don't get it, will never get it, and don't get that it is their problem.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: New Boys (1/24/2009 10:33:16 PM)
~FR~ As so many of us have said so often, meeting a dominant woman isn't that much different than meeting any other woman. If you (impersonal you) meet a woman at a bar or other social gathering place, is the first thing out of your mouth going to be a list of things you want her to do to you in bed? I surely hope not. And if it's not, why in the world would you think it's okay to do that with a dominant woman? Does the mere fact that I know how to swing a flogger somehow negate my humanity? Apparently, it does if the messages I get are any indication. I'm all for educating the newbies. In fact, I have a thing for virgins or those with little experience. However, if you've reached the age of majority without learning basic social skills, that's beyond my capacity for tolerance. How hard is it to initiate a polite conversation with a woman and actually spend a few rounds of email getting to know each other as people before progressing to lists of kinks? (Hint: it's pretty easy.) So, I confess, I'm not willing to give a lot of latitude to those who can't manage to hold up their end of a conversation. If they can't do that much, it's a safe bet we're not going to be compatible anyway. Why waste my time? It's better spent on someone who can.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: New Boys (1/24/2009 11:18:35 PM)
What Sylvere said. [:D]

Underumam -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 12:51:24 AM)
Don't worry Otter. There are many here who whine. Both D and s. Most have what they're searching for right under their noses, yet can't see the forest for the trees..

undergroundsea -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 1:04:23 AM)
In my opinion, the difficulty arises because there are some things we know that we know, and there are some things we know that we don't know. And there are some things we don't know that we know and there are some things that we don't know that we don't know.* Cheers, Sea *Donald Rumsfeld reference

DrkJourney -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 2:13:37 AM)
Can't quite go along with that...not in my case any way. When someone emails me with a less than "pleasant" approach....the first thing I ask is if they are new...and then I let them know what their approach sounded like on this end, and that it's cool, we can move on from there....and I then try to engage them in conversation and offer friendship. But that's not what they want. They want to talk about what I would do to them if they were here, and they want stories of what I"ve done in the past...and no matter how I try to steer them in another direction, they always go back to what they want and what they want done. They are not interested in learning anything...now I've had some that really didn't know, they thanked me, and we are friends, even helped some find someone more appropriate...but I have to say the majority that contact me are not interested in learning more subtle ways. Unfortunately you are the exception Otter, not the rule.

SnowRanger -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 3:04:20 AM)
Ah Ha! I get it now.... Hello A/all, Sylvere has put it into terms that even a dumb old timber beast such as myself can grasp. I would no sooner walk up to a woman in a bar and tell her how I want her to carve her first initial in my butt that I would walk into interstate traffic. On the other hand I suspect that many newbies assume that this venue removes at least one layer of the social interaction necessary in establishing a relationship. Perhaps these neddies also belive that the fact that you can wield a flogger makes you less... what?.. queasy? about a more descriptive approach. We would all do well to treat this more like MatchDotWhatever and not like SexPartnersNOW. No matter what the venue good manners will make you stand out from the crowd. Respectfully, Mike SnowRanger

OttersSwim -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 7:22:56 AM)
Well, they can't all be winners, so thanks to all that responded to set me right. [:)] I guess that what I was really saying was that I was new, and I made mistakes such as trotting out a list of my limits fairly early in our conversations. I was never rude or I believe lacked common sense...but I have to admit that last night when my Lady and I were discussing that open ended question "What can you do for/offer me?" That would have really thrown me early on. I wonder how early that question is asked? And I am sure that there are other questions too that would have the same affect of leaving a newbie wondering how in the world to answer with a better than 50% chance of getting it wrong. Dunno. GoddessD probably has it right in that I don't understand. I am just glad that my Lady understood my missteps as those of a newbie and not those of a bozo. Carry on. [;)]

Lockit -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:05:16 AM)
Otter... you cannot compare your mistakes to the actions, behaviors and cock blinded, self consumed people we have coming at us. Simply put... I can see what you did from things you have said here and in your first posts here that could be newbie stuff and simply mistakes or not knowing... what we are getting are practiced wankers who think only of their cock and what we might do to it. Is that you? Was that you? No friggin way! You cannot compare Otter's to wanker's. Besides... I used to try to advise how they should not approach as they were... kindly... using my words carefully believe it or not... and you know what I got? You fake... you bitch... you whore... or I am sorry mistress.. after I told them not to call me mistress... I won't do it again... see... I need you to teach me... forgive me AND then a couple emails away... they are back to... will you fuck my ass with your strapon, dress me in your clothes and not tell my wife? No Otter... you cannot compare... Otter's to wankers with no respect at all!

thetammyjo -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:14:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim Well, they can't all be winners, so thanks to all that responded to set me right. [:)] I guess that what I was really saying was that I was new, and I made mistakes such as trotting out a list of my limits fairly early in our conversations. I was never rude or I believe lacked common sense...but I have to admit that last night when my Lady and I were discussing that open ended question "What can you do for/offer me?" That would have really thrown me early on. I wonder how early that question is asked? And I am sure that there are other questions too that would have the same affect of leaving a newbie wondering how in the world to answer with a better than 50% chance of getting it wrong. Dunno. GoddessD probably has it right in that I don't understand. I am just glad that my Lady understood my missteps as those of a newbie and not those of a bozo. Carry on. [;)] See for me newness is excusable if it is coupled with an actual drive to learn. Take Fox. He was only 19 so very new in many senses of that word. But he had done research, he'd moved beyond the porn and into non-fiction, he had gone to kink events (usually by lying about his age which I can't recommend but it did show drive), and he'd researched me a bit before he approached me. By doing that he demonstrated that he had the ability and the willingness to go beyond what I'd say 95% of people (male and female) are willing to do when they begin any journey in a new subculture. I've been the teacher for about three dozen newbies in my lifetime thus far. But each of them had to show this same level of willingness and ability. You can't teach unless you have a sincere student.

OttersSwim -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:22:41 AM)
Thank you Lockit, for your very kind response. I have to say that I do not envy you Ladies having to filter out all the hardcore wankers and the clueless...while hopefully not missing that new subbie boy with actual potential.

BitchGoddessD -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:30:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrkJourney Unfortunately you are the exception Otter, not the rule. quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit No Otter... you cannot compare... Otter's to wankers with no respect at all! I agree wholeheartedly. [;)]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Underumam Don't worry Otter. There are many here who whine. Both D and s. Most have what they're searching for right under their noses, yet can't see the forest for the trees.. I have found what I THOUGHT I was searching for, only to get kicked to the curb because I wasn't into their sexual kink. Or wasn't mean enough. Or something. There really aren't all that many to choose from in my neck of the woods. Great guys, but great for SOMEONE ELSE.

PeonForHer -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 8:42:29 AM)
Besides... I used to try to advise how they should not approach as they were... kindly... using my words carefully believe it or not... and you know what I got? You fake... you bitch... you whore... or I am sorry mistress.. after I told them not to call me mistress... I won't do it again... see... I need you to teach me... forgive me AND then a couple emails away... they are back to... will you fuck my ass with your strapon, dress me in your clothes and not tell my wife? Ah. You've answered my question on the "Why do you stay here" thread, then. Those who approach you that way initially cannot be 'taught' to 'go out of the door and come back in again, properly dressed'. . It's a shame, but not entirely surprising.

mummyman321 -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 9:43:59 AM)
I cannot speak for other and would never try to. I can only speak of my own experiences. When I first got involved in the BDSM lifestyle/scene I know I like it but had no idea why I liked it and what I wanted from it. I think it took me every bit of 5 years really to be able to answer the questions: Am I a Dom or a sub?, why do I like being sub?, what am I seeking in Domme? and how to I want to be involved in the lifestyle (24/7?, publice play?, behind closed doors only?m etc). So from my perspective, those who have just entered into the lifestyle, I do not believe know what they are seeking yet. And maybe some learn much faster than others. For me it took every bit of 5 years to fully understand my wants, desires, and needs.

YoursMistress -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 9:48:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mummyman321 I cannot speak for other and would never try to. I can only speak of my own experiences. When I first got involved in the BDSM lifestyle/scene I know I like it but had no idea why I liked it and what I wanted from it. I think it took me every bit of 5 years really to be able to answer the questions: Am I a Dom or a sub?, why do I like being sub?, what am I seeking in Domme? and how to I want to be involved in the lifestyle (24/7?, publice play?, behind closed doors only?m etc). So from my perspective, those who have just entered into the lifestyle, I do not believe know what they are seeking yet. And maybe some learn much faster than others. For me it took every bit of 5 years to fully understand my wants, desires, and needs. mummyman321, Thank you very much. I do feel pressured to decide who I am , what I want, Why, etc. (pressure applied by me, of course). It helps me a lot to know that I am not wrong for being a little confused and anxious. yours

LadyHibiscus -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 9:53:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YoursMistress quote: ORIGINAL: mummyman321 I cannot speak for other and would never try to. I can only speak of my own experiences. When I first got involved in the BDSM lifestyle/scene I know I like it but had no idea why I liked it and what I wanted from it. I think it took me every bit of 5 years really to be able to answer the questions: Am I a Dom or a sub?, why do I like being sub?, what am I seeking in Domme? and how to I want to be involved in the lifestyle (24/7?, publice play?, behind closed doors only?m etc). So from my perspective, those who have just entered into the lifestyle, I do not believe know what they are seeking yet. And maybe some learn much faster than others. For me it took every bit of 5 years to fully understand my wants, desires, and needs. mummyman321, Thank you very much. I do feel pressured to decide who I am , what I want, Why, etc. (pressure applied by me, of course). It helps me a lot to know that I am not wrong for being a little confused and anxious. yours It's never wrong to want to explore and figure out what you want and what you like. In my opinon there is too much stress on labels and making people fit into boxes. This or that is a dominant activity, this or that is a submissive one, and oh NO if you like both! We are here to fulfill ourselves and express our personalities. If that means that one person never does anything pain related but has her slaves serve her like Victorian house staff, and another keeps a crew of people to entertain her and a third has a devoted husband who dresses up in latex under his clothes, well, it's all good. A dear friend told me that no one can be all dominant or all submissive all the time... and I think that is true for many. In the meantime, I think it is wise to try anything that seems interesting. Who knows what you might find out about yourself?

Lockit -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 9:56:11 AM)
Okay... to those who feel they didn't know what they wanted or were a bit insecure and didn't know how they were expected to act or insert whatever you felt as a new guy... did you make opening statements in first emails about what you wanted a woman to do to you? Did you ask her, her kink before her name? Did you think that a bdsm site was all about sex... your sex... and act on that? I don't think that all domina's are clueless when it comes to new guys... maybe sometimes a bit jaded or impatient because of the sheer numbers of those new guys... or old really... many of them I have seen around for years... but anyway... new guys... did you believe because it was an adult site about bdsm that the women automatically became some vision of sexual release for you? Or did you see them as people who were dominant? How did you make contact and act? If a dominant contacted you... did you rush to tell her every fantasy you had and wanted from her without knowing her or reading her profile? Did you lose all common sense, social graces and just see a sex object? I do believe that for the most part, domina's are open to getting to know a new guy and will help them along the way if they present as a decent human being even in a vanilla sense. I have had a number that I have talked to that had no experience or were newly exploring and they did not treat me or themselves in a disrespectful manner. There is a difference between being shy, confused, fearful, timid or simply even a bit clueless as to how a domina wants to be treated or how things go typically... from the blantant player who speaks only about sexual things and desires and sends emails to any dominant they can find. There are a lot of us that like to nurture and understand and guide... why wouldn't we be willing to understand? Or... do the submissive guys think we are very unfair and unreasonable?

DreamyLadySnow -> RE: New Boys (1/25/2009 9:58:54 AM)
SnowRanger, Bravo! (runs off to my secret lab to clone SnowRanger..heck I'm in Edmonton, already have the snow part down pat)

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