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Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:19:13 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		      I'm wondering lately about the role 'the party line' plays in our discussion of issues and events.  How the views and thoughts of people get filtered through the prism of our politics, and shaped by the spin-meisters and spokesholes.

    These are interesting days.  The prism is shifting.  I believe the levels of dislike (a mild term, I know, but playing nice seems important here) for Bush II sometimes caused people to overlook other things that should have been important to them.  With a new administration, I'm pretty sure that things which have been lost will suddenly be found.  I have long felt, for instance, that there should be much more concern about radical/fundamentalist Islam among the more liberally minded folks.  Do you think we will see a shift in that now? 

   Where else are we going to see these kinds of changes?  I'd guess elements of the right are about to get a lot more interested in gov't surveillance issues.  I'm hoping that having President Obama as our Commander in Chief will result in less slander of our military (see In The Valley Of Elah if you don't know what I mean), but I'm not holding my breath.

    If this thread draws any interest and response, I suspect the word "sheeple" might turn up.  Yes.  I think there a completely mindless segment of the population who just wait to be told what to think, and then bleat.  They are not, by any stetch, the only voices in the political barnyard.

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:34:02 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		So, if I understand this correctly, you are complaining of partisanship now that Obama is in office.

Funny that you've never complained about this before.

But, of course, that doesn't indicate any partisanship on your behalf.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/25/2009 10:37:32 AM >

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:36:22 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Ironoic isn't it.

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:39:36 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So, if I understand this correctly, you are complaining of partisanship now that Obama is in office.



...no, thats not it.

TH makes a suggestion that liberals may now become more concerned with Islamic Fundamentalism. When TH talks of the prism shifting, he talks of how things that were invisible before suddenly become apparent. Those people who have for a long time spoken of non-military interventions to cope with this problem. Those who see this not as a war that can be won with bullets but a war that can only be won with ideals will become more obvious. For those who had a mindset sympathetic to the last administration it will seem like these concerned liberals have suddenly appeared. The new prism simply means that a light will be shone on things that have been around a while now...but suddenly that light will reveal new paradigms. Patriot Act is one such area that will suddenly get revealed i think... 

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:40:00 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		See and I love how the question was ignored to simply dump on the OP.

The Question is still Valid, and I am sure he would not have mentioned it before as it wasn't a issue to him before. The question remains. If you aren't going to answer the question that that is a bigger answer than anything else. Either answer the question with your opinion or admit that it is an acurate position on the matter.

Steel

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 10:40:01 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		deleted.  not helpful.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 1/25/2009 10:48:36 AM >

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 11:16:35 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		A whole bunch of things are wrong with the op.

First the claim that liberals slander the military. Yes, some on the left do not not show a great deal of respect to servicepeople but it is a tiny minority. The number on the right who are eager to send my brothers in arms off to die for no good reason is far larger and far more more politically powerful and that casual disregard for their lives is a far greater insult than a few leftists slanders.

As a liberal I have been concerned with all forms of religious extremists far longer than most on the right and that didn't change in the last 8 years. What will hopefully change is my government may start actually dealing with the dangers posed by islamists rather than spending endless amounts of blood and treasure making Iraq safe for Haliburton.

As to the right suddenly becoming very aware of the civil liberties they so gladly gave up, it will happen and the howls of laughter and derision from the left pointing out the hypocricy will be a special pleasure for the next few years.

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 11:38:01 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

deleted.  not helpful.


Oh, you should really think about what's helpful.

Look deep into yourself and find the liberal waiting to emerge.

I can recommend several self-help books................" I was cured of being a Republican conservative through S&M therapy"  is one of my favorites.


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 11:43:02 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Okay THAT was funny

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 11:49:13 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    I'm wondering lately about the role 'the party line' plays in our discussion of issues and events.  How the views and thoughts of people get filtered through the prism of our politics, and shaped by the spin-meisters and spokesholes.

  These are interesting days.  The prism is shifting.  I believe the levels of dislike (a mild term, I know, but playing nice seems important here) for Bush II sometimes caused people to overlook other things that should have been important to them.  With a new administration, I'm pretty sure that things which have been lost will suddenly be found.  I have long felt, for instance, that there should be much more concern about radical/fundamentalist Islam among the more liberally minded folks.  Do you think we will see a shift in that now? 

 Where else are we going to see these kinds of changes?  I'd guess elements of the right are about to get a lot more interested in gov't surveillance issues.  I'm hoping that having President Obama as our Commander in Chief will result in less slander of our military (see In The Valley Of Elah if you don't know what I mean), but I'm not holding my breath.

  If this thread draws any interest and response, I suspect the word "sheeple" might turn up.  Yes.  I think there a completely mindless segment of the population who just wait to be told what to think, and then bleat.  They are not, by any stetch, the only voices in the political barnyard.


Hiya Rich, great topic.
One thing that gets my goat is that many assume Democratic = extreme liberal.
MANY of us that call ourselves Democrats are moderate (myself included).
Rich, I don't agree or go along with strict party lines, I look at the issues.
On several issues, gulp.....I agree with the right.
 
As a THINKING adult, I try to follow what I feel is right, and best for most people, the country and the world.....instead of "party lines", or popular and let's feel good, positions!

As I told my father yesterday, and I have said several times on here, I FULLY expect
to not agree with a fair number of decisions and policies that President Obama, creates.
Sorry, I am just not a mindless, spineless, thoughtless, follower.
 
On the other hand, I plan to fully support and continue to adore and respect President Obama.
I may not agree with all his decisons, but I will support him and I believe he is the best man for
the postion that he has.

Personally, I am pleased that President Obama appears to be trying to operate in a VERY
moderate mode.
That will make many on the far, far left unhappy and many on the right won't be happy regardless of what he does.
 
But those of us mainly in the middle will continue to adore him.


< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/25/2009 11:50:57 AM >

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 1:27:42 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Look deep into yourself and find the liberal waiting to emerge.




          You don't pay any attention at all to what I say, do you, RML? 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 1:43:58 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Awwww Rich ,don't sweat it.I'm sure there are those who appreciate your pov....dwindling numbers for sure but some still believe.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:05:48 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Heretic, I get the feeling that you think that the US is composed of people who have bought into one predigested philosophy or another.  There are the liberals, the Limbaugh/Coulter folks, etc.

I belong to a political party which no longer exists.  It is what the GOP used to be.  Limited government, personal responsibility, and a belief in free enterprise.  (The modern GOP focuses on expanding government in the name of antiterrorism, lack of personal responsibility and ethics if ideological litmus tests are met, and big bailouts. Also, the GOP is fine with massive spending as long as taxes are kept low.)  However, I do believe in government regulation as a necessary evil, which doesn't quite fit in.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:19:55 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      I'm wondering lately about the role 'the party line' plays in our discussion of issues and events.  How the views and thoughts of people get filtered through the prism of our politics, and shaped by the spin-meisters and spokesholes.


I suspect a lot has to do with the difficulty of researching and thinking out an independent position on every issue. I think many of us (including me) fall prey to the temptation to figure out what party we connect better with on the issues most important to us, then trust them on the others we don't know much about.

quote:

the levels of dislike (a mild term, I know, but playing nice seems important here) for Bush II


Forgive me a bit of a digression. I know some commentators/posters would argue that the degree of loathing for Bush 43 was exceptional, but I'm not sure I agree. Demonizing one's opponent has long roots in American politics. "Ma, Ma, where's my pa?"

quote:

I have long felt, for instance, that there should be much more concern about radical/fundamentalist Islam among the more liberally minded folks.  Do you think we will see a shift in that now?


I've felt that too, but I don't know how much of a shift we'll see. I think it's a tricky area given (a) the desire to be/appear "tolerant"; (b) reluctance to criticize other cultures, especially when we don't fully understand them; (c) fear of giving people an excuse to dislike all Muslims; and, yes, (d) fear of radical Muslims' reactions.

quote:

Where else are we going to see these kinds of changes?  I'd guess elements of the right are about to get a lot more interested in gov't surveillance issues.


I suspect we'll see many interesting and perhaps entertaining reversals. The GOP will likely rediscover fiscal prudence and the evils of deficits; the Democrats may conclude that deficits have their uses. The GOP may no longer feel that being at war makes dissent unpatriotic, while the Democrats may find it handy to play the "How can you criticize the C-in-C?" card. I think we can all agree that the Democrats will find engineering an Iraq exodus more difficult than merely calling for one.



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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:20:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Heretic, I get the feeling that you think that the US is composed of people who have bought into one predigested philosophy or another. 



       I certainly think that represents a portion of the spectrum, Steve.  I used to spend 10-16 hours a day in a truck, with the radio for company.  I don't know how many times I would find the discussion here, or other places like this parroting the Limbaugh/Shulz lines of debate.  I almost think that more people than not just take their politics right off the shelf.  Thinking people are in shorter supply.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:38:37 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Look deep into yourself and find the liberal waiting to emerge.




        You don't pay any attention at all to what I say, do you, RML? 


No, I always pay attention.

It's just hard to take you seriously sometimes.  As in this thread where you bleat out a rabidly conservative viewpoint and then call anyone who might dare disagree sheeple, in your opening remarks, before anyone has even had a chance to respond.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/25/2009 2:40:22 PM >

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:47:36 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Funny that Rule can read what is nowhere in the op.  I've reread looking for where he called those who disagree sheeple.  Strange that it isn't there.  There is a place where he notes that the term will show up and that it refers to those who wait to be told what to think and then blindly follow.  It seems Rule is the one who assumes that they must be on the left.  The op didn't assign sides at all.
Of course, it is hard to be impartial when you are busy reading things that aren't there or attacking someone for what you want to believe they are saying.
Philosophy, yours was a well thought out post.  I think you are one of the very few to actually read and address what was said.

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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:51:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
As in this thread where you bleat out a rabidly conservative viewpoint



      And what would that have been, RML?  What rabid view did I express?  Clarify, if you would.

     And acknowledging that there ARE sheeple, is far cry from pointing any particular fingers.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:55:08 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks to DC, as well, and to Mia for her thoughts.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Partisanship and Personal Opinion - 1/25/2009 2:59:21 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Funny that Rule can read what is nowhere in the op.  I've reread looking for where he called those who disagree sheeple.  Strange that it isn't there.  There is a place where he notes that the term will show up and that it refers to those who wait to be told what to think and then blindly follow.  It seems Rule is the one who assumes that they must be on the left.  The op didn't assign sides at all.
Of course, it is hard to be impartial when you are busy reading things that aren't there or attacking someone for what you want to believe they are saying.
Philosophy, yours was a well thought out post.  I think you are one of the very few to actually read and address what was said.


No, he didn't specifically say that.

I based my assumption, and I admit it was that, on the other parts of the post and the many other items I have read from the poster.

So, based on that, yes, it was hard to look at the post as impartial.

If I am consistently on here voicing a particular viewpoint and then I make a post about that viewpoint, claiming to be impartial, would you take me seriously?



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/25/2009 3:00:29 PM >

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