|
4u2spoil -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/10/2009 5:18:58 AM)
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
However, to say that it is how we have always done things is not necessarily a resilient answer and falls short on intellectual reasoning. A question to then ask is why have we always done things this way.
Not really sea. It's not eloquent, but to say that this is the way things have been for a while, and still are is perfectly valid reasoning. In recent history, perhaps things were done in a certain way because men typically had more money and controlled the gift giving ability. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that's not the way things are. You're welcome to examine why you don't want to do something that's the norm (perhaps you like going against norms, maybe it just doesn't feel right to you), but it doesn't mean the norm is not there.
quote:
I come from an old-fashioned, conservative family which passed on to me traditional values. As with other cultural norms passed to me, I now interpret this one in a way that makes sense to me. And the way it makes sense to me is that I do not see it as a duty (as was initially passed to me) but as a positive gesture that is volunteered. I am turned off when someone does not see this gesture as a courtesy but as their right or my duty.
I wouldn't expect anything less. You go against the norm or interpret it a different way because it feels right for you. I acknowledge that it probably doesn't feel good to be viewed as cheap because you're going against norms, but there's no lack of understanding as to why you are viewed in this way. If someone called you a wimp for wanting to submit to a woman sexually, I wouldn't agree at all, but could understand why the assessment is made. I was raised in a family where the primary female example was to get an education and work hard so that you could provide for yourself without depending on someone else (man or otherwise). I was also raised to believe that men who cared about women gave them gifts. I regularly saw a smart, hardworking woman given flowers, chocolate and jewelry - and who knows what I didn't see. It wasn't unreciprocated, but the man's gifts to the woman came more frequently than hers to his. There was no contempt for this, and in fact, the man enjoyed giving gifts that the woman would like. When going out, the man paid for dinner, even if the woman had her own money and could pay for it. Again, this was not viewed with contempt. I'm not sure what the expectations were for the man were, but I know that even if they were expected or viewed as a duty, the woman was always very appreciative, even if it wasn't in the form of reciprocating with a gift. To me, this makes sense.
I initially responded, because I didn't like the unspoken implication that wanting gifts/spoiling was equivalent to financial domination or a lead in to it. FD isn't my cup of tea, but spoiling is and I thought that it was important to establish that they aren't the same. Within that, that even those who enjoy gifts or spoiling (and clearly state it) aren't princess types waiting for a rich sub to come rescue them with daily shopping trips.
quote:
I have reiterated this point multiple times. If you find no issue with this point then I am not sure where the disagreement is. If you do find issue, please clarify. If you are unsure what I mean, please seek clarification.
My only issue is that you keep asking the same question, even though it's been answered. You don't like the norms, you don't like people who adopt the norms with regard to their own views, and you seem to keep questioning it in the hopes that they'll shift to your view of the norms or feel bad about their own view for some reason. I don't think anyone doesn't respect your right to your view. We know that you and Akasha's friend will never have a love connection. We know that for matters of the wallet, you don't think it's right that one person be obligated to pay for another. I don't think anyone is throwing the C word out there to try to get you to change your views.
I wouldn't call you cheap, but I would say that (based on your posts) money is important to you and you're very cautious about who you give it to. You likely subscribe to the view "a fool and his money are soon parted," and apply it to romantic/personal situations as well. If a woman really wants you, she won't ask you to part with your money or expect it. As it relates to D/s, you likely feel that if a woman is really interested in your service, it won't involve money. Since you've mentioned that you have casual sessions rather than relationships, I don't necessarily see this as being cheap. You've said that when it comes to people you care about, you don't have a problem giving gifts or doing things that require money. I don't hold it against you if you don't care about a person from the first email or phone conversation.
I also don't think Akasha's friend is always incorrect when determining that men who ask her to go dutch are cheap. If she only goes on dates with guys she's interested in (and not just for the meal), a man starting a courtship in that way could be viewed as feeling money is more important than the person he's pursuing. It might not be correct in all cases, just as your view that requests for gifts will lead to a financial Domme isn't always correct. But she may have tried it before and found that the man wasn't cautious, but just cheap.
|
|
|
|
