RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"?

RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (Full Version)

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MistressScarlot -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 11:27:43 AM)
I can't, of course, speak for /all/ Dommes...only Myself. I am of value, and I prefer men who have achieved some goals, lived some life, have some kind of track record of success. I find that sort of man extremely satisfying to dominate. I believe I deserve the whole package in a sub or slave...intelligence, potentials for success that I can help to hone and refine for the good of everyone, a heart in the right place and the willingness to be taught and molded by a strong Woman. I like teaching strong, successful men how to make Me happy. (The right strong, successful men.) Me happy = everyone being happy. I got to train a physicist a week or so ago, and I was in /heaven/. That's the kind of thing that makes me wet My panties. :D

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 11:30:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDolly quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer However, you may want to get on your running shoes, Akasha, because you're absolutely right - I certainly do consider my submission to be valuable and I really am not going to give it up to a woman unless I think she's worth it! That really is a straw man argument in this thread. Of course you will place your submission wisely...no one now or ever did refute that. Where many dominant females draw the line is when we are petitioned to accept the idea we should change our methods or ideals over tomes of romantic dogma and incessant whining, as others in this conversation have noted. We are dominant Women. Many of us are not here to be "designed" by the whims, morals or fantasies of submissive males. We are here to be served, not to dominate you on your terms, no matter how pragmatic or "fair" those terms may seem to you! Many submissive males think we have what they want so often, but they are just submitting to images of us they have in their heads (AKA service-oriented dominance). A man who comes to us sincerely looking to serve, at the same time bringing something to the table, will be taken seriously, but we will test his mettle to make certain we are dealing with males who will bend to our will, because bending to our will and serving us is (*gasp) the entire point. This sums it up.

AAkasha -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 11:39:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDolly quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer However, you may want to get on your running shoes, Akasha, because you're absolutely right - I certainly do consider my submission to be valuable and I really am not going to give it up to a woman unless I think she's worth it! That really is a straw man argument in this thread. Of course you will place your submission wisely...no one now or ever did refute that. Where many dominant females draw the line is when we are petitioned to accept the idea we should change our methods or ideals over tomes of romantic dogma and incessant whining, as others in this conversation have noted. We are dominant Women. Many of us are not here to be "designed" by the whims, morals or fantasies of submissive males. We are here to be served, not to dominate you on your terms, no matter how pragmatic or "fair" those terms may seem to you! Many submissive males think we have what they want so often, but they are just submitting to images of us they have in their heads (AKA service-oriented dominance). A man who comes to us sincerely looking to serve, at the same time bringing something to the table, will be taken seriously, but we will test his mettle to make certain we are dealing with males who will bend to our will, because bending to our will and serving us is (*gasp) the entire point. This sums it up. I don't want to get too philosophical, but I have to add another point to this that I think some submissive men don't realize, and sadly many don't care enough to ask about or consider. And that is that femdoms are JUST THIS WAY. We vary in our design, but we are dominant women because it's in our blood, and we are not like a fictional femdom character that is defined by her ACTS OF DOMINANCE. I can't speak for all femdoms, but at my core is an undeniable and inflexible craving and hunger for surrender and submission. I have developed my skills of seduction to the point of being nearly predatory (in a GOOD way) because I desire and need so much to influence and see the bending of a man's will to meet my own, because his desire to please me is so high. The only way a submissive man can understand and fully embrace just how complex and real this is, is to actually be in a longterm relationship with a living, breathing femdom who is NOT doing it because she wants to make her boyfriend happy. A submissive who is in this dynamic realizes that the dynamic can only survive if he feeds it willingly and selflessly and allows her the freedom of expression so she can do what it is she need to do in order to feed her femdom side. Again, I can't help but this this is an emotional analogy or paralell to how some bottoms think they are subs just because they are on the other side of the whip, yet they want to dictate the acts and intensities of their various bottoming sessions. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a woman who is true to her dominance, you have to be willing to give her power and on her terms, not just wait and make sure it's packaged up in just the right ways you like it. Otherwise you will just be single. While femdoms may vary in the degrees, intensity and types of ways they express and live their dominance, I think one thing is always going to be clear - the minute you start putting conditions on when, how and why you submit even in the early stages of courting, you are showing a selfish, risk-less, "do me" kind of attitude that is a turn off. A man CAN be confident, whole, have pride and strength and ego and not be a doormat and STILL be willing to behave in a manner intially that shows he is willing and able to surrender - albeit cautiously. Akasha

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 12:41:07 PM)
I think power exchange comes after mutual affection on some level, or at least lust, and is recognized by both parties. That I agree with. Mutual affection and lust come a long way first. I strongly believe that once a man is relating to a woman as a dominant partner or potential, he should expect that on some levels his freedom, his rights, his desires, his expectations WILL be comproised for hers on HER terms (not his fantasy terms). I believe that his likes and dislikes may get compromised, his expectations likewise, desires . . . His rights won't be compromised, nor will his freedoms. Those will be jointly decided. That's how it'll be for me - or it'll be nothing. Or vanilla again. By it's very definition, power exchange indicates the man is submitting to the woman's dominance, not just in the ways he feels are right and fair. No, it doesn't. Power exchange involves the gifting of submissive's submission in the ways he feels to be right and fair. You asked earlier: who is in power in the relationship - the man or the woman? You may as well ask, "who is in power in the USA - the government or the people?" The answer is: both. The people of the USA designed a constitution with limitations on the government's power over the people. Dictatorships tend to be miserable - and prone to revolutions. Liberal democracies tend to be more realistic about their apportioning of power. Or, at least, it does in my view. Can I ask how many longterm vanilla/BDSM relationships you have had (more than 2 years) with this dynamic? None. Yet I wouldn't want a relationship in which these things weren't recognised. That would be for her good, as well as mine. Can I ask you - have you had a relationship that's gone wrong because the dynamic has suddenly changed? If so, I'd suggest it was because certain of these things weren't recognised, and owned, by both parties.

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 12:59:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDolly quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer However, you may want to get on your running shoes, Akasha, because you're absolutely right - I certainly do consider my submission to be valuable and I really am not going to give it up to a woman unless I think she's worth it! That really is a straw man argument in this thread. Of course you will place your submission wisely...no one now or ever did refute that. Where many dominant females draw the line is when we are petitioned to accept the idea we should change our methods or ideals over tomes of romantic dogma and incessant whining, as others in this conversation have noted. We are dominant Women. Many of us are not here to be "designed" by the whims, morals or fantasies of submissive males. Mistress Dolly, you're a pro-Domme. It's very difficult to see how you're entirely able to avoid being '"designed" by the whims, morals or fantasies of submissive males". Your website is utterly designed towards that end, isn't it? We are here to be served, not to dominate you on your terms, no matter how pragmatic or "fair" those terms may seem to you! I don't think that equates to the real world. You are there to be served only as much as any sub wants to serve you. But belief in that - as an absolute thing in the way you put it - I suspect has an awful lot to do with broken D/s relationships everywhere. Not to mention D/s relationships that never even get off the ground. It stirs the subby dick, certainly - but I hear that women don't want men to be led by their dicks, subby or otherwise, because the result is always disaster. Dicks don't think - only brains do that.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:10:27 PM)
You can never understand the mentality of a subby and what it means to serve. Submissive men want to serve, want to sacrifice, want to submit. There is never a problem with those types. But you are not that type. Dominant women don't want you because they can see you hate feeling inferior and you have inferior complex. Dominant women get served BY MEN WHO WANT TO SERVE HER WHIMS. A dominant woman will not bend to you. You bend to her if you are a subby. If you don't want to put her before you, don't serve a woman. Dominant woman don't want you in the first place. Service tops might want ya tho. You are a bottom boy. You don't like submission. What's right and fair to you is a balance of power. That is not submission. There is inequality in submission. You do not seek to serve, you seek to be dominated. You want things fair. Inequality is unfair to you. You can't stand bending for a Woman. You can't stand giving her power over anything but your body. You can't stand being secondary. It's so unfair. Boo hooo. Then do not call yourself a submissive. Go get dominated by a top and be sure to tell her just how you like it too. You hate the fact the dominant Women have men willing to bend, serve and cater to all their desires. HA. What's the matter? That makes you feel inferior???

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:13:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I think maybe you sum it up better than I can. I don't know any other way to explain it, other than this growing submissive trend of self awareness, self protection, etc. is just really a way to package submission into a comfortable box with lots of safety nets, essentially robbing the femdom of the passion of surrender. It's an emotional form of "topping from the bottom" as much as I hate that term. In any new relationship there are risks to be taken. A submissive that protects himself so vigilantly and views his submission as so sacred and so much a "gift" that he's not willing to be the one to make the initials sacrifices to to speak (emotionally), to be himself at risk to some degree, basically squashes the entire erotic aspect of surrender for me. snip. Submission to me is about taking risks on some level, emotional or physical, and someone has to take the first step. Akasha [sm=agree.gif] The men on here "don't want to serve, that want to be dominated" and that's so why they keep trying to redefine submission and servitude. They want to serve on their terms mainly. Ah Mistress Kuma, you always help me sum things up for myself! This is how I'd put it: *I do want to pack submission into a comfortable box with lots of safety nets, because* I don't want to rob the femdom, or myself, of the passion of surrender**. If you're going to trash "the men on here" for not being submissive enough for you - then where are you going to find any others? Is there even one sub, true enough for you, in the world?

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:14:48 PM)
Oh and she is not a paid professional dominatrix who sees men for pay sessions. Nice try tho. [;)] Those on her site are her boys and there is no money exchanged.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:14:52 PM)
~FR~, mainly to Peon's post. I am one of those who feels her partner is her equal, and all that... but when it comes down to it, one person is in charge, and that is mostly ME. That means that sometimes I make unpopular decisions, and guess what? A submissive obeys. Maybe not easily, or willingly, but he or she does it. That's the essential thing that marks D/s relationships---sometimes, the s doesn't get his or her way, and that is part of the deal.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:16:12 PM)
Don' t resent the women. Your bitterness will fade once you stop getting rejected.

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:19:07 PM)
Dominant women don't want you because they can see you hate feeling inferior and you have inferior complex. But apparently they do want me, MistressKuma. Enough of them for me to be getting along with, anyway. [;)] I think your problem is not that I have an inferiority complex, it's because I don't have an inferiority complex. I don't feel inferior to you despite that "scientific evidence" of men being genetically inferior to women in your profile. You need to take it on board that very few men will feel that way about you.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:19:29 PM)
If the subby obeys you even though he does not want to, how is that being equal in power? You just overrode him. That's an imbalance. [:(]

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:22:26 PM)
I am one of those who feels her partner is her equal, and all that... but when it comes down to it, one person is in charge, and that is mostly ME. That means that sometimes I make unpopular decisions, and guess what? A submissive obeys. Maybe not easily, or willingly, but he or she does it. That's the essential thing that marks D/s relationships---sometimes, the s doesn't get his or her way, and that is part of the deal. Sounds all right to me, Lady Hib. An unpopular decision is not necessarily an unfair one. Sometimes the s doesn't get his way and that's part of the deal.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:22:48 PM)
lol, let it all out peeboy.[;)][:D][:D][:D][:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:24:59 PM)
Lady Hib, Mistress Kuma has spoken. You are not a True Domme.

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:26:12 PM)
[:D] Peeboy. Stop flirting. [;)]

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer [:D] Peeboy. Stop flirting. [;)] [:D] And Ms. A, many thanks for saying it better than me: quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Some submissive men use the oppression, misuse, "abuse" or unfair treatment of submissives by unrealistic fantasy femdoms or money femdoms as an excuse to champion 'equal rights for subs' to the level that really you have watered down power exchange to a joke. A submissive should be willing to compromise his own needs, wants and expectations for the woman he is pursuing, adoring, or fucking in a power exchange relationship. There must be some willingness by the sub to accept the fact that power exchange means the power will flow more in favor of the woman. It's not 'equal rights' dressed up as power exchange, as some subs want to believe. Akasha This sums it up.[;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 1:40:14 PM)
A submissive should be willing to compromise his own needs, wants and expectations for the woman he is pursuing, adoring, or fucking in a power exchange relationship. True. Akasha's right there. There must be some willingness by the sub to accept the fact that power exchange means the power will flow more in favor of the woman. It's not 'equal rights' dressed up as power exchange, as some subs want to believe. But that's wrong. BDSM is precisely about power exchange, not giving up of rights. That's why it's called mutual consent. Ah go on, Mistress K. Call me "peeboy" again! [;)]

Lockit -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 2:04:27 PM)
What happened to free choice or concent? Until there is an established relationship and an agreement between the two... in my world they are equal and the submissive has as much right to want things to go the way they are comfortable with. Inside a relationship... they should have agreed to whatever and the matter settled. If they don't want to pay for gifts or be ordered to pay for gifts, they shouldn't have to justify it OR prove a point here. Nor should we dominant's have to do either. Proving a point... for pages and pages riles things up and pretty soon the whole thing gets messy. It is clear understanding on this topic isn't going to be found and I think a lot of it is more word useage and not all against one side or the other, but comments of a personal nature that some are attacking for. Some got pushy... some reacted... for many, many pages. Can't blame anyone... I react too and did on this thread I believe. It's just the will not agree to disagree, the insult's and personal attacks that get distasteful. I look at people as equals... until someone has agreed to be my submissive... then the dynamic's come into play. Until then... he is just a man and I am just a woman.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"? (2/12/2009 2:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer A submissive should be willing to compromise his own needs, wants and expectations for the woman he is pursuing, adoring, or fucking in a power exchange relationship. True. Akasha's right there. There must be some willingness by the sub to accept the fact that power exchange means the power will flow more in favor of the woman. It's not 'equal rights' dressed up as power exchange, as some subs want to believe. But that's wrong. BDSM is precisely about power exchange, not giving up of rights. That's why it's called mutual consent. Ah go on, Mistress K. Call me "peeboy" again! [;)] It is about power exchange, I'm not denying that. Giving up power is giving up your rights because you want to. No one wants to force a subby to submit or take away his consent. Is that what you're saying? That we think we can take it? No no. We don't. They offer it to us. Get up off the floor, peeboy. [8D][8D][8D][8D] [;)] Does it hurt you to know some men do? It sounds like you don't want women to have any credit, like you want to make dominant women out as thinking everyone wants to submit to them. We don't care about anyone but the men who we like and want. It is ok by us that men don't like service and worship. But dominant women do like those types of submissives who want to compromise thier needs and wants and expectations. We like to be served. And men like to serve us. [;)][;)][;)] That is what separates subs from bottoms. Bottoms (you, peeboy[;)] ) want to be dominated. Other men who are subbies, like to serve and sacrifice. Different stuff. He wants to give up power, his rights, his authority to her and HE CONSENTS to it. Bottoms don't consent to an exchange of power or giving up of rights except when they are being dominated. Sub men want that power exchange and want to serve her needs over his.

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