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RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:27:55 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

In my corner of the world a *doormat* is someone that anyone can trample on. The connotations I grew up with were to do with a lack of self worth and a lack of spirit. Nothing to do with D/s.

I wouldn't encourage my sprogs to be a *doormat* for instance; quite the opposite. It's not condusive to getting along in the world for the majority of the time.

In D/s terms ....I think the same applies in many respects. I wouldn't consider rotten manners connected to non-doormat* behaviour. Many rude and ill-mannered folk are still doormats, they are just *noisy doormats*.

I think LA said that people that make that assertion are actually a little afraid that they ARE *doormats*. It's their way of trying to keep the*doormat-tramplers* at bay.

Some people have a problem with standing firm in their beliefs and views and get terribly defensive when they feel they're being shoved. The assertion that they *aren't doormats* is like yelling at the monsters under the bed.

agirl

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 41

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:31:22 PM

sparkyRBF

Posts: 157
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

A doormat is commonly used to describe someone who does not have healthy boundaries. Say you have a brother who has smashed up three cars and asks to borrow yours. Someone with healthy boundaries will say no, they can't afford to let him ruin their car. A doormat would give in and hand over the keys, knowing that when he has another accident she will be unable to get to work.

As far as the correlation to good manners; there isn't one. It's just an ad hominem attack when they know they are in the wrong but unwilling to apologize and amend their ways.

Thank you for remarking on this. In line with that, just a personal thought here. When i see someone jump back with "i'm not a doormat". It does not improve my image of them at all.

Along the lines of knowing they are wrong but unwilling to apologize, I also feel they think apologizing is a weakness and in doing so you are showing submission to someone and of course we could never show submission to someone we did not respect. I feel this is a warped view of an apology. An apology is not giving power to anyone. To admit to ones own faults, as faults, shows great introspection and a willingness to grow, be open and acheive more.

What can be so bad about that?

_____________________________

sparkyRBF
Happily owned slave
of
RedBotttomFarms

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 42

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:34:11 PM

sparkyRBF

Posts: 157
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I have to comment on this, after extended experience with, and great affection for, the 'doormat'. I think it is possible to have an exceptional, and very satisfying relationship with a "doormat"... the thing is, though, that the doormat requires a great deal of intervention from the controlling partner. If one's doormat is being walked all over by people that you don't want doing that, then it is up to the the dominant partner to put a stop to it... and taking on a doormat-level submissive individual means being aware and keeping track of things like this.

snipped for brevity.

Thank you CallaFirestormBW. This is a lovely post. I love a giving heart and someone who wants to please just for the sake of it, not expecting any reward. The reward is in the service itself, knowing you are appreciated.

_____________________________

sparkyRBF
Happily owned slave
of
RedBotttomFarms

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 43

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:37:25 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Now, when you say "people" are you meaning within the lifestyle? or "vanilla" friends and family?

My vanilla friends, who still make the majority of my friends, have been taking the time to tell me what they think of my relationship, or in their words lack of relationship with Sir. They do not comprehend a Ds type of relationship, though some are interested in the kinky aspect. I think their conclusions is because he is not as attentive to me as they think a relationship should be. They are welcome to their opinion, but i know differently.

oceanwynds

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 44

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:41:01 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

Excerpts from: Complete obedience = doormat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OP by SleepyDom:
In another thread was this unanswered question "how can a Master want to train a sub to obey completely yet say they don't want a doormat?" I suppose the answer depends on the definition of a doormat, but I understand the gist of the question and here are my thoughts. I do want to train a sub to obey completely. I want her to submit to my will so completely, to trust me in all things, that obedience is just second nature to her. But from this it doesn't follow:

1) That she can't be herself; that her personality is somehow suppressed as in not allowed to engage in humor, light banter, romantic gestures, sayings, and actions, i.e. all the little quirky things I love about her. Why would this follow unless I've ordered her to not be herself, to not be funny, to not let her personality shine? And I would never want to suppress things about her that I love. I might do so of things that I don't. If she's often disrespectful or dishonest, for example, those things will be punished for and corrected. Although there's a time for everything, in general complete obedience to me doesn't mean that there won't be times for humor or romantic moments.

2) That her intelligence is suppressed or that her opinions and preferences not allowed to be expressed. I DESIRE intelligence because I want to give her responsibilities and not have to micromanage every little thing. Also because her opinions and advise can be valuable, especially with regard to things she knows much more about. I want to own her mind, not just her body, why should I let her mind go to waste? And I want to know her preferences because she matters to me and I want her to be happy. While they don't dictate my decisions, they do enter into the equation. Even an M/s is still a relationship after all and it won't last if both parties are not happy.

or

3) That she can't discuss or question my orders. Such things can be not only justified but actually a good thing. I'm not perfect and sometimes I may forget a good reason not to order her to do x and therefore order her to do x. But knowing me as well as I know her, she may realize this and remind me to make sure that's what I really want her to do, thereby saving me from a mistake. Complete obedience does not imply blind obedience. I want to know when I have misinformation or when I don't have the relevant information. If she's in possession of such, I want her to let me know rather than simply following my orders. But this is generally understood; I don't think anyone wants blind obedience. Now if she's questioning me because she doesn't WANT to obey, that's a different matter.

So is a sub who is intelligent, allowed to use her intelligence and to express her opinions and preferences, a sub who can be funny, romantic, and allowed to be herself, a sub who is allowed, even encouraged, to discuss matters when necessary, is she a doormat? If so, then yes I do want a doormat. If not, I just answered how I want complete obedience without her being a doormat.

Well, that's my view. Fire away!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My reply:
I agree with you and I love my doormat so much I just went and took a picture of it for you!

All kidding aside, I think that the armed servicemen & women who are trained to follow orders would take offence to being called doormats. I think their superiors would feel insulted as well. I feel the same way about my obedient partners. They are an integral part of my life and I respect them as much or more than any patriot respects our citizens in the service.

-=Ode to My Doormat=-
You know, I am freaking tired of the prejudice against doormats. I love my doormat and it performs a vital function in my house. It is decorative and pretty to look at. It says “welcome” to my guests and makes them feel I care about them by having one. It shows respect for my house by letting you wipe your feet on it if they are dirty. It even dries your feet when they are wet. My house and my porch just wouldn’t be the same without a good doormat!

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 45

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 12:52:04 PM

sparkyRBF

Posts: 157
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

In my corner of the world a *doormat* is someone that anyone can trample on. The connotations I grew up with were to do with a lack of self worth and a lack of spirit. Nothing to do with D/s.

I was meaning it in the connotation of D/s, of the lifestyle where one D or s type calls another D or s type a doormat. I know i didn't make that very clear. I still think your definition does relate to within the lifestyle as well. A person with no self worth and or a lack of spirit. I find it ironic how being a slave has given me such self worth.

I wouldn't encourage my sprogs to be a *doormat* for instance; quite the opposite. It's not condusive to getting along in the world for the majority of the time.

Sprogs = children?

In D/s terms ....I think the same applies in many respects. I wouldn't consider rotten manners connected to non-doormat* behaviour. Many rude and ill-mannered folk are still doormats, they are just *noisy doormats*.

LOL noisy doormats. I think i see your point here. And almost as an example, while changing channels it happen to fall on the "real housewives of orange county" which i NEVER watch but since i grew up in Orange County Calif i was curious to see if they were going to show any of the places i lived. anyways.. they were showing how this one young man was being extremely rude to his mother and she was just taking it. now her behavior with other people was rude, obnoxious, demanding, bratty even, but she was doing nothing but making excuses for why her son was allowed to talk to her this way "oh he's tired" "oh i embarrased him" etc etc.

So it made your post more clear to me

I think LA said that people that make that assertion are actually a little afraid that they ARE *doormats*. It's their way of trying to keep the*doormat-tramplers* at bay.

I think so too

Some people have a problem with standing firm in their beliefs and views and get terribly defensive when they feel they're being shoved. The assertion that they *aren't doormats* is like yelling at the monsters under the bed.

And equally as futile?

agirl

Thank you for your insight.. some very good points

_____________________________

sparkyRBF
Happily owned slave
of
RedBotttomFarms

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 46

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 1:00:53 PM

FRSguy

Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

Pretty much yes.... however I dont think its really a bad thing depending on who they are matched up with.

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 47

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 1:34:56 PM

Demspotis

Posts: 61
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

It's a thought-provoking question, and many of the responses make it even more so. I've mostly seen the word as used in submissive profiles when they assert that they aren't "doormats". Since I don't read their minds, I can't be sure of just what they mean by it, but in many cases, they say it as part of a complaint about messages received from random strangers giving orders or making comments that the sender has no right to say, so it makes me think that their intended meaning is to say that they are not available to any and all comers. (Err, no pun intended, even though it wouldn't be inappropriate to the subject.) Several cases that I've seen recently also include comments (addressed to whomever reads their profile) like, "I may be a submissive, but I'm not YOUR submissive, unless I say so." They are objecting to being given orders, or being talked down to, or addressed with humiliating or insulting words, etc. by people that they don't know and certainly haven't given any sort of consent to.

It's clear that there are other definitions being used out there, too, as have been nicely detailed in previous posts; they're all valid in their particular contexts. (I haven't seen any definitions so far in this thread that I see as incorrect.) The one I've given is merely one meaning that seems to fit the other things said by many of the profile writers who tell us that they aren't doormats. Chances are that even if they do intend this particular meaning, they probably have others sides of it in mind as well.

Now, if we assume that definition to be what is meant, even then it isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself to be a doormat in that sense: what is bad is when people assume that someone else, someone they don't even know is a "doormat". In other words, if a particular person likes receiving dominating or dirty messages from random readers, then they're happy being a "doormat". But when people who don't wish to be treated like that (and it is a problem here and on many other free sites), then they are justified enough in saying clearly that they aren't doormats. It is certainly offensive behavior to treat someone as a doormat without the right to do so.

On the other side of the coin, I've seen quite a few dominant profiles, especially of dominant women, wherein the writers tell their readers not to act as if they were owned by that person, even though there's been no contact at all, much less a collaring.

So, as I see it, this aspect of "doormat" and has to do with the problem of those people (a kind of troll?) who take very premature liberties with people on first contact, and although the term "doormat" doesn't fit, the same situation can also plague dominants.

Best wishes,
~Demspotis

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 48

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 1:46:23 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus
a submissive who is abused or just used for booty calls and not valued

What is it with people and
generalising??? They hate
that Bdsm is in a bad daylight,
it's alright to push others in corners..?

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to LunaVenus)

Post #: 49

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 2:16:33 PM

aravain

Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline

Oooh, this looks like a fun topic... to the OP:

My definition of doormat is simple (and not derogatory).

A doormat is someone that will do anything for anyone regardless of who the other person is. Someone CAN be a doormat to one person (and one person only).

It's not a derogatory term (at least, not to me), but it is NOT something that I do, or enjoy.

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 50

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 2:46:42 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

FR:

To me it's exactly as it sounds. A doormat is someone who allows themselves to be walked on without regard for themselves. Some submissives enjoy that, some do not, some enjoy it for a while then evolve to something else, some stay with it forever because they're comfortable being treated that way, some pay a high price for it if and when the relationship ends, and others go on unscathed.

Is it something I want to be? No. Do I care if someone else chooses that lifestyle? No.

(in reply to aravain)

Post #: 51

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 3:09:00 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CharmingDeceit

quote:

from the bethdictionary:

doormat: (dôrmt) noun

1. a derogatory label folks use in an attempt to demean other submissive/slaves for doing things they wouldn't and/or experiencing submission differently than they do.

Perfect.

Yeah. When I see the term used, that's pretty much what it seems to mean.

Sometimes, I refer to myself as a doormat. It means I'm likely to be compliant and follow orders to a degree that others wouldn't even when its not required. And, I don't make a big deal out of it ala the "gift of submission" folks, or, "I only submit to one because my submissions speeeeeshullll" folks. I just like to do what I'm told and will do what I'm told unless I have a good reason not to.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to CharmingDeceit)

Post #: 52

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 5:23:11 PM

sparkyRBF

Posts: 157
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

quote:

Now, when you say "people" are you meaning within the lifestyle? or "vanilla" friends and family?

My vanilla friends, who still make the majority of my friends, have been taking the time to tell me what they think of my relationship, or in their words lack of relationship with Sir. They do not comprehend a Ds type of relationship, though some are interested in the kinky aspect. I think their conclusions is because he is not as attentive to me as they think a relationship should be. They are welcome to their opinion, but i know differently.

oceanwynds

A few years ago we had a girl living with us as a poly household. My best friend from high school came to visit and when we were alone asked "ok, what's up with this girl living with you?" I couldn't lie to sharri, i never could and it just came out, our lifestyle, Master/slave, poly, the whole thing. She paused for a minute and i said "so what do you think?" kinda worried, to which she replied, "wish you would have told me 10 years ago, things would have made alot more sense." LOL

This gave me confidence to be bluntly honest with other people in my life. It has saved on alot of confusion and the more i do it, the less awkward i feel about it.

best of luck to you hon.

_____________________________

sparkyRBF
Happily owned slave
of
RedBotttomFarms

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 53

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 5:51:48 PM

SwimGoldfishSwim

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/11/2009
Status: offline

To me a doormat is someone who let's people use them and may or may not enjoy it. i have to agree with DesFIP when it comes to actions, i'm like that a lot. In fact it's happened quite a bit as of late, with my emotions not my non-existent car.

It doesn't have anything to do with manners because you can stand up for yourself and still be polite about things.

Personally i think being a doormat has it's perks and it's downfalls just like everything else in life. It usually (not all the time) makes someone very open, very giving and caring. But at the same time it makes them vulnerable and easily taken advantage of.

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 54

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 7:17:58 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

In my corner of the world a *doormat* is someone that anyone can trample on. The connotations I grew up with were to do with a lack of self worth and a lack of spirit. Nothing to do with D/s.

This is my take on it as well. In a D/s context, to me, a doormat is a sub/slave who never offers his/her own opinion or shows spirit, personality, initiative, or intelligence, answering any and all questions (even the ones from his/her D) with something along the lines of "Whatever Master/ Mistress thinks" and doing as s/he is told to do by anyone and everyone, right or wrong, unless Master/ Mistress steps in and forbids it. Many of the folks here who refer to themselves as "doormats" are obviously NOT like this (the lovely beth being an awesome example), but it is what springs to my mind when the term is used. It makes me think of a human dishrag (waits for some folks to ID as dishrags)

and really, again- to me, has nothing to do with the level of submission within a given relationship or manners on or off the boards.

This is part of the problem in redefining pre-existing words to a D/s context. It's rather hard to get everyone on the same page. Look at all the trouble with the word "slave" and you will see that it's rather like herding cats to get this rather huge bunch of kinksters to agree on any specific definition of a reassigned "nilla" word

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 55

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 7:27:32 PM

Thorns82

Posts: 92
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline

I think someone already posted this...a doormat is someone incapable of setting healthy boundaries. This is not a good thing to be.

Putting someone else's needs before your own doesn't necessarily make you a doormat - just submissive to their will. Doing something that you know is a bad idea, is against your morals, or will have a negative impact on your life - that's a doormat.

There is also a difference between being a doormat and making a willing sacrifice. Going without deserts for weeks in order to lose weight for someone would be a sacrifice. Allowing yourself to be put on a harmful diet to please someone else would be doormat-ish. (Note: I'm talking forced anorexia or something equally extreme.)

(in reply to SwimGoldfishSwim)

Post #: 56

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/2/2009 11:17:19 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkyRBF

What is your definition of "Doormat" and why is it so bad to be one?

A doormat is someone who isn't compatible with Me.
That's for sure. I love a strong sub with his/her opinion, who inspires Me, and whom I can inspire.

I wish you a lovely day sparky.

GoddezzT`

[isn't it too early to b here.. ]

< Message edited by GoddessTeaze -- 2/2/2009 11:18:14 PM >

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 57

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/3/2009 2:12:23 AM

BondageBarbieX

Posts: 495
Joined: 4/1/2008
Status: offline

Someone you can walk all over and step on their feelings.

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 58

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/3/2009 4:31:28 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

My own definition of a "doormat" is a person (vanilla or kinky) who is so passive that others can easily take advantage of them, and or abuse them in some way. Why do I consider this a bad thing? Because I've seen some people that would be considered "doormats" who ended up penniless and living on the street due to being preyed upon by some jerk. I really do not like to see people taken advantage of and unfortunately for people with this personality type, it tends to happen all to often.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 59

RE: What is your definition of "doormat" and ... - 2/3/2009 6:15:14 AM

OneMoreWaste

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
For myself, I -like- doormats. I find it problematic that the current culture of the community of WIITWD, in general, makes "doormat" seem like a -bad- thing, since that attitude has driven many a darling doormat so far underground that they're afraid to even show their faces any more where they might be discovered and polished up and put to good use. Anyone who doesn't want theirs are welcome to send them in my direction.

Can I just mail myself to you? I'll include return postage to send me back to the office when you're done...

_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 60

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