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RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 9:20:26 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		My Sub has 'earned' the right to continue submitting to me. Her submission is still a gift that must be guarded, nurtured and cherished.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 9:45:46 PM   
miticantenslaved


Posts: 195
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am curious on peoples perspective on this question.

Does a submissive earn submission?


what a curiously interesting question...

it depends on the context in which You are asking, i would think...if a submissive is approaching a Dom/me...Master...Mistress then yes, it should be earned in order to serve that One, in a stable and meaningful relationship.

then again, there are Those out there who will take submission in a similar way to taking the dog for a walk...fairly meaningless but fun to the walker, but necessary to the walkee...

speaking in a general manner, no...submission is quite natural to some. i know many who are naturally submissive. personally, i am not one of those and i do admire those who do and can be such...i think i will stop, here. *winks*

that was a thought-provoking question, thank You...

"I gather the Archchancellor won't have milk in the University," said Susan. "He says he knows where it comes from and that it's unhygienic. And that's a man who eats three eggs for breakfast every day, mark you." [Hogfather]

~miti

< Message edited by miticantenslaved -- 1/13/2006 9:54:39 PM >

_____________________________

~If that which you seek you do not find within, you will not find, without *D. Valiente*~


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 9:56:59 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin



The dynamic that develops between Dominant and submissive is circular.


Can you or anyon explain to me please, this word that keeps popping up "Dynamic"? It might better help me understand some of what you refering to in some of these post and responses. Yes I've looked up Websters version of the word, and it's not fitting into conversations on this forum... LOL

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 10:03:45 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am curious on peoples perspective on this question.

Does a submissive earn submission?



No, a sub earns a Dominant. Its the Dominant who earns submission.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 10:06:44 PM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Can you or anyon explain to me please, this word that keeps popping up "Dynamic"?


Almost like...the inner workings of the relationship between two people. The things that bind them together, that work for just them and them alone...making the relationship more solid, stable, and strong.

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 10:28:56 PM   
brigidsub


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/2/2006
From: Washington
Status: offline 		From a very new sub's head...tripping a bit on the allure of it all

i have begun to feel that i am earning submissiveness from the inside out-
earning the reward of accepting myself as a submissive and accepting what that means...which has given Him the willingness to accept me, and allow me to grow and achieve the unlimited potential to be found in this mutually beneficial relationship.

Maybe i've just begun earning my own acceptance with His guidance? Such continual paradox.

Guess you could call me "echo" ~grin~

It will be interesting for me to review this thread a bit down the road, i'm sure.

brigidsub

(in reply to IceyOne)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 10:37:26 PM   
seaturtle50


Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Does a submissive earn submission?


Since the Goddess of my desire has told me;

quote:

...you can then judge whether you feel capable and worthy of serving me but you have to earn this privelage


my answer is YES

seaturtle

(in reply to Smythe)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submission??? - 1/13/2006 11:24:34 PM   
SirDarkside357


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, there are two things I must say before I give my opinion.......First, do these just come to you out of the blue Knight, or do you have to spend time thinking them up? WEG
Second....terminology has a way of confusing folk...to me submissive is not a person but a personality trait....so to me, what you are asking is...does a slave earn her submission?
I would have to say, no...and yes. If one calls herself a slave, submission is already a part of her, whether or not she reveils it, thus it isn't earned. When a slave seeks to submit to a Master, then yes, she must earn that right...if not he would not accept her....once she is accepted she must earn her continued submission by pleasing the Master....as he must continue to earn his mastery of the slave.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 3:12:59 AM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		. Everyone keeps saying that submissive and submission are one and the same...if I am reading correctly right?

And that could have been how the OP wanted the question to come about.

But

When I read it, I was reading it as...does a person who is submissive, whether through 'birthright' or through other means...will that person just NATURALLY submit, or do they have to find it within themselves to submit? In other words...earn it.

< Message edited by IceyOne -- 1/14/2006 3:15:11 AM >

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 5:56:04 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

quote:

Can you or anyon explain to me please, this word that keeps popping up "Dynamic"?


Almost like...the inner workings of the relationship between two people. The things that bind them together, that work for just them and them alone...making the relationship more solid, stable, and strong.


This is how I mean it -- the energy and the work between the people involved. This work and energy is ever changing too thus it is a dynamic process. Why does it change? Cause so does everything in life and that involves individuals and every factor in their relationship.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to IceyOne)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 7:13:15 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		It would seem that submission in and of itself is a personality trait. Either you are or you aren't submissive, in the same way that either you are or you aren't dominant. In the case of the Switch you are or aren't either at different times, provided you are interested D/s. What depends is the trigger.

Trust has a lot to do with whether or not someone earns the right to be able to share with you who and what you are. Lets take another example: I am a member of a furry board. When I joined, I was skittish, just as I am now, on this board, because I was new. I didnt know who everyone was, or whether I was welcome. Now, they have to deal with me being exactly who and what I am, because I know the board, and many of the people on it. I feel comfortable to be the silly, sometimes annoying, usually confusing thing I tend to be.

Such is the same with a new play partner. Although I will tell them upfront I am a furry and a sadomasochist, I will not initiate any real D/s or S/M until I get to know who they are. As such I tend to keep my play limited to good friends: one who I am dominant over, one I switch with and one who is for all intents and purposes, my flogging buddy. With these last two, I swear, we spend more time doubled over in laughter and immense sillyness than doing anything.

I know these people, and thus I feel like I can be who I am with them. Such I believe would be the same with most people: You never give someone yourself without knowing them, and thus never display your full abilities and comforts being a Dominant, submissive or Switch. Part of this also has to do with knowing how they will react to you, whether what you are is welcome or not. Growth takes time. And it seems that in the course of this time, people can give the depth of their dominance or submission, but whatever you are or aren't, is hardwired, set, and there. This seems to be the only way such people "earn" their place, but really it is the other person who "earns" this.

Sure, there are people who will go off and play with anyone, typically people more interested in S/M (I admit D/s can be a part of my life, or not, it doesn't matter, but I need my S/M). But even then, people interested in temporary things need to know who they are getting involved with: whether said person is safe or not, trustworthy etc. Not many I know will jump into the fire without knowing if the burn is worth it.

For example: I would not present my back to someone I don't feel comfortable with. In a way, they have to "earn" that right with me. Although, as a sadist I'm more likely to want to go ahead and cause pain to someone who is asking, still I will not press what I can until I know if they can handle it.

And I must say, interesting discourse thus far. I love the philosophical/ psychological discussions I see happening here.

I know I answered for all sides by my own experience. For that I apologize, but it seems to work both ways.

For those still reading and not yawning: Thank you for dealing with the rambling. I tend to do that. I'll shut up now.


< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 1/14/2006 7:23:48 AM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 7:46:19 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

quote:

Can you or anyon explain to me please, this word that keeps popping up "Dynamic"?


Almost like...the inner workings of the relationship between two people. The things that bind them together, that work for just them and them alone...making the relationship more solid, stable, and strong.


This is how I mean it -- the energy and the work between the people involved. This work and energy is ever changing too thus it is a dynamic process. Why does it change? Cause so does everything in life and that involves individuals and every factor in their relationship.


Thank you for a couple of different views on this. So I'm guessing it's all in who is doing the talking and explaning something about themselves or others, to understand more of the "use" of this word in converstion on here.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 8:05:35 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am curious on peoples perspective on this question.

Does a submissive earn submission?



A submissive earning submission? I will hold back my penchant for sarcastic humor before I sum up my own thoughts on the subject.

IMO isn't really possible, since relationships and the people engaging in them are subjective and not objective in nature. If submission could be earned, then that would take away from the Dominants prerogative.

As I see that a Dominant proves themself dominant through no tests or specific qualifications but by their actions. So I see that a submissive proves themself to be submissive by their actions.

A submissive is granted permission to submit when the Dominant accepts their gift of submission.


edited for spelling

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 1/14/2006 8:11:38 AM >

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 8:32:05 AM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Thank you for a couple of different views on this. So I'm guessing it's all in who is doing the talking and explaning something about themselves or others, to understand more of the "use" of this word in converstion on here.


Yes. Relationship dynamics will not be the same for any two people, they will be totally different. The word itself is just used in a more 'broad and generalized' sense.

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 8:34:09 AM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
As I see that a Dominant proves themself dominant through no tests or specific qualifications but by their actions. So I see that a submissive proves themself to be submissive by their actions.

A submissive is granted permission to submit when the Dominant accepts their gift of submission.
=============================================

i still hate the word gift..
but i DO agree with Ya.


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 8:48:30 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Can you or anyon explain to me please, this word that keeps popping up "Dynamic"?


The interacting forces within a relationship.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 9:18:48 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

If submission could be earned, then that would take away from the Dominants prerogative.

As I see that a Dominant proves themself dominant through no tests or specific qualifications but by their actions. So I see that a submissive proves themself to be submissive by their actions.

A submissive is granted permission to submit when the Dominant accepts their gift of submission.


Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that being submissive, dominant, overall neither, or a mixture of both is inherent in human nature. And this, in and of itself, is not earned, but birthright, or built by a person's experiences.

There really is no test, no way to prove anything. The way I see it really, is "proving" it through time, which is more of a trust issue than anything else. You have to get to know each other, before you crack open the inner chest of your being.

I know this is not true of all people, and those who are immediately able to do so, more power to you. I however, shall remain cautious "proving" myself through time and patience.

Perhaps this is more of a wording issue? It is rather hard to use such words, earn, prove and gift, without a subjective nature.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 11:11:53 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i would have to say Yes Knight. After reading everyone elses posts i think they earn it in a variety of ways. Not too long ago, i realised that a submissive must gain trust from their Dominant as well. Not just learn to trust. A Dominant must learn to trust his submissive.

So i think submission is earned within ones self

It is earned from the dominant as a submissive follows through on obeying more and more.

it is earned from the Dominant being able to trust the submissive

and it is earned by the progression of the the training.

(in reply to Slipstreme)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submission??? - 1/14/2006 11:56:29 AM   
MsIce


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Well I dont know if they earn submission as such, as that is more about their personality type. However what they may or may not earn, is the right to be submissive to a particular Dominant.

As you are no doubt aware Female Dominants are approached by many. For me I make sure that the submissive is fit to serve me, by extensively talking with them, making them perform tasks unrelated to any play at all, and just generally getting to know them on a personal level.

You know sometimes even making a date for the first task is enough to make them realise that they actually live in a fantasty world and could never do it in real life - they panick! lol

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Submission??? - 1/15/2006 6:38:40 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		>>>>>>>wondering what KnightofMists' personal thoughts are on this one

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 40
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