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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:06:18 AM   
4u2spoil


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Submissive isn't the same as pathetic, or even weak. I also don't take any pleasure out of fighting with someone or a doormat who would lie down for anyone.

Edited to correct is to isn't

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:07:49 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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It's power exchange, not power struggle.   If someone is serving me, it's because he wants to, because he feels that I am trustworthy and worth following.  He doesn't check his brain, his self-will, or his personality at the door. 

I do not live for the fight.  While I expect my man to be able to make decisions on his own (because he's an adult, imagine!) and contribute to the relationship, if all he wants to do is push his ideas on me and ignore mine, he is not right for me. 

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:12:35 AM   
OttersSwim


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Heh...Lady H, you post suddenly made me think of fishing and "landing" that fish that fights you all the way.  Thing is...once you land them...you have no choice but to throw them back...or eat 'em!  

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:13:52 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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See, that's why I don't fish... catch and release makes NO sense to me!

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:16:57 AM   
MsFlutter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's power exchange, not power struggle......


Now see? THIS is why I want to be just like LadyH when I grow up :)

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:20:09 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's power exchange, not power struggle......


Now see? THIS is why I want to be just like LadyH when I grow up :)




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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 8:45:45 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: giovani324

I was wondering if there are any Mistress's that like subs with a little will power left to crush and control.  What is the enjoyment of controlling someone who is already pathetic?


What exactly makes you think that submissives and even slaves do not have willpower?

It takes a very motivated, self-aware, and self-controlled individual to become a worthy consensual slave.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 9:07:20 AM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: giovani324

I was wondering if there are any Mistress's that like subs with a little will power left to crush and control.  What is the enjoyment of controlling someone who is already pathetic?


What exactly makes you think that submissives and even slaves do not have willpower?

It takes a very motivated, self-aware, and self-controlled individual to become a worthy consensual slave.


People tend to look at the two sides of this as absolutes, when in reality it's a continuum. There are all shades of gray here, not just black and white. The rote response that a sub/slave must be "strong", etc., may be true for some, but not for all. And ready compliance doesn't necessarily make one "pathetic", but that term does seem to fit some subs.

Even though the wording of the OP is pretty inflammatory, the underlying question is legitimate, and has been debated before. It has to do with a dominant accepting submission from someone who's offering it with little or no resistance of any sort, versus a dominant taking on more of a challenge to overcome more resistance in a sub. To some, the fun is all about the struggle, but others are turned on by a more willing submission.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 10:06:13 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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Absolutely!    As long as his will is to submit, or discuss, than submit.    M

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 10:35:12 AM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

It's power exchange, not power struggle. 


Not for everyone. I think either one is just as legitimate. Some like a little struggle. Struggle or resistance doesn't have to mean "all he wants to do is push his ideas on me and ignore mine". It usually means merely that the sub isn't totally subservient and acquiescent from the get-go, that there's a little resistance to some things, and that the dominant has to do something to "get to" the submissive. People who enjoy that process are bored by unresistant, willing submission.

The phrase "power exchange" is used all the time, but I don't think it describes what's going on very well. Frankly I don't see an exchange of power going on in these circumstances, as "exchange" implies a two-way transaction, but the transfer of power in D/s here seems to be one-way only. The sub relinquishes his/her power to the dominant. I'm not saying that the dominant doesn't give anything, but that power doesn't flow both ways. When you look at the comments and attitudes of many of the D/s dominants here, it looks like they expect the sub's relinquishment of power to be pretty unconditional.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 11:23:42 AM   
LadyLou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

When you look at the comments and attitudes of many of the D/s dominants here, it looks like they expect the sub's relinquishment of power to be pretty unconditional.




Far from it! Don't you consider it foolhardy to make such emphatic statements concerning strangers and the way they run their entire relationships by just reading tiny little snippets of it on a forum?



I think you are seriously missing the underlying current of a lot of the replies here. Whilst I can't speak for everyone, if you actually read into the underlying current, it is quite the opposite to what you suggest.




< Message edited by LadyLou -- 2/4/2009 11:25:27 AM >

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 11:48:32 AM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLou

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

When you look at the comments and attitudes of many of the D/s dominants here, it looks like they expect the sub's relinquishment of power to be pretty unconditional.




Far from it! Don't you consider it foolhardy to make such emphatic statements concerning strangers and the way they run their entire relationships by just reading tiny little snippets of it on a forum?



I think you are seriously missing the underlying current of a lot of the replies here. Whilst I can't speak for everyone, if you actually read into the underlying current, it is quite the opposite to what you suggest.





No, I don't think I am missing anything. I think you are. My statement was not "foolhardy", nor "emphatic"; it was very conditional. I didn't say "all dominants", or even "a majority" of dominants, I said "many". Nor was it about how strangers "run their entire relationships", nor was it based on "just reading tiny little snippets of it". It referred to the typical comments and what the attitude "looks like", based on several years of posts here. Perhaps "unconditional" wasn't the appropriate word to use, but I was running out of synonyms for "willing", "subservient", and "unresistant".

Countless posts have stated how a sub should not have any resistance in him, how he should offer his submission willingly, how his only desire should be to serve, how it should be completely about his domina, and not about him, how the domina is not interested in a struggle. So what does that make it "look like" they want? How is it "the opposite" of what I said?

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 12:04:00 PM   
Lockit


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Resistant... hummm... I guess it comes in many forms.  Resistant to certain things would be a problem...

Like... he is willing when his cock is needy, but resistant to things when it is not.  Like when he is afraid.. he struggles with what he wants... one moment he wants to be kinky and dominanted and the next he is running from dominance and a relationship until the cock is needy again.  Like when he is angry becasue of things he has experienced and is surely not going to allow anyone to get close to doing what another did and see's her doing so at every turn or phrase.  Like when he is wishy washy and unsure and playing games to convince you he is all there, when in fact he is only there for the moment and then when you know his game... he is off to find someone else to convince he is a nice submissive guy... but truely hasn't any idea what it takes to carry on a d/s relationship or doesn't really want to put anything into it except his own meeting of personal needs. 

I know, run on sentences... but... it is very similar to the resistant one's I have known.

Then there is the resistance of one who does know what he wants and isn't struggling with himself.  Isn't angry or wounded to the point of acting out and is more sincere and playful in his resistance.  Any struggle with a kink or whatever isn't coming from a dark place... but one of unsure maybe or he feeds off the challenges as the dominant does as well.

When I speak of resistance... I think the first examples as they seem to out number the second.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 12:15:28 PM   
MsEmpwr2


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I agree Otter! I love the imagery!

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 1:16:00 PM   
lateralist1


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I don't force men to do as I wish. If he wants to he will if he doesn't he won't.
The first is submissive to me the second isn't.
I don't have the time to play games. Life is too short.
If I manage to build a D/s romantic relationship then I can start playing the kind of games I like to play with him.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 1:20:54 PM   
LadyLou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLou

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

When you look at the comments and attitudes of many of the D/s dominants here, it looks like they expect the sub's relinquishment of power to be pretty unconditional.




Far from it! Don't you consider it foolhardy to make such emphatic statements concerning strangers and the way they run their entire relationships by just reading tiny little snippets of it on a forum?



I think you are seriously missing the underlying current of a lot of the replies here. Whilst I can't speak for everyone, if you actually read into the underlying current, it is quite the opposite to what you suggest.





No, I don't think I am missing anything. I think you are. My statement was not "foolhardy", nor "emphatic"; it was very conditional. I didn't say "all dominants", or even "a majority" of dominants, I said "many". Nor was it about how strangers "run their entire relationships", nor was it based on "just reading tiny little snippets of it". It referred to the typical comments and what the attitude "looks like", based on several years of posts here. Perhaps "unconditional" wasn't the appropriate word to use, but I was running out of synonyms for "willing", "subservient", and "unresistant".










Lol! I suggested you were “foolhardy” as you made a generalisation (which you admit you have formed by reading these forums), and which may well of encompassed my relationship (I assumed you were referring to the posters in this particular thread with your statement of “when you look at the comments and attitudes of the dominants here”). You don't know me, thus I consider it 'foolhardy' to make defining statements which concern things you have no understanding of. As you say, you are basing your opinion on what it “looks like” without showing any empathetic understanding of what you are saying. You may well do, but your remark suggested otherwise to me.


quote:


Countless posts have stated how a sub should not have any resistance in him, how he should offer his submission willingly, how his only desire should be to serve, how it should be completely about his domina, and not about him, how the domina is not interested in a struggle. So what does that make it "look like" they want? How is it "the opposite" of what I said?




I too have been reading these forums for a few years. Despite the occasional 'one twue way' types, I have not seen many people state how a sub is suppose to be, rather I see people stating their preferences for a partner. In fact, I see 'many' dominant woman here state that they seek a sub who submits selectively and conditionally. Who submits to them because of a fondness/love/respect/affection for them, and only when it has been established. I see many dominants stating that they don't expect immediate submission and would be turned off by someone who submitted from the “get-go”. I see many dominants here state and demonstrate an understanding that submission will take time, trust, chemistry etc. So let me state one of the underlying currents I refer too; 'they' seek a sub who sets standards for his submission, i.e it's conditional. Indeed, It's this 'quality' submission that makes it appealing.











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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 1:29:06 PM   
MsEmpwr2


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AMEN SISTER!

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 1:43:15 PM   
ShaktiSama


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Interesting points made. I would agree with those who say that it feels better and more satisfying to be intimate with someone who reserves that part of himself for me. A guy who submits to everyone is not giving me anything special: if I'm not getting something special, I don't want it.

It's a little disturbing sometimes when a man is obviously attracted to dominance in general, or all dominant women in general, and I get the feeling that there is nothing special about me personally. *shrug* No guy who ever makes me feel that way ever gets anywhere with me, though.

Anyhoo. Yes, some women love chasing and struggling. Me, I love a man who raises his chin and shows me his throat.

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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 1:47:21 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
... Me, I love a man who raises his chin and shows me his throat.


WIN 


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RE: Any Mistress's like subs with a little will power l... - 2/4/2009 2:20:12 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: giovani324

Did not mean to stereotype submissives as a whole, perhaps I used a poor choice of words.  Maybe resistance would be better ... like in the sense that the hunt is more enjoyable when the prey puts up a little bit of a fight?  I don't know, was just throwing it out there.


That would be a big NO from me then. I prefer a slave that submits to ME because she cannot imagine not doing so. But that does not make her weak or pathetic. Just mine. And no, I am not going to go all cave woman, hunt her down and drag her back to the cave by her hair, kicking and screaming. That would be a waste of precious energy.

Althoughhhhhhhh, it could be kinda hot once in awhile........


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