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RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/15/2006 10:54:27 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Individuals that enter into the our lifestyle communities here on line or in the Face to Face encounters are often given the ultimate reassurances that the people in this lifesytle are an accepting and open-minded mob of people. That your choices and thoughts will be accepted and appreciated as your right to choose. But, oh so often this line is quickly faded, many newbies and even some long-term members of this lifestyle are very disheartened to see such a lofty ideal being tarnished with such close-minded and opinionated interactions.

I suppose there are many reasons why we come here and see a lack of acceptance for others and even feel it directed towards ourselves, I know I felt it. I would even be so bold to say that we have on occassion been unaccepting of others from time to time, I know I have.

So, what are the reasons? are they justified?... do we deserve it from time to time. do others deserved it?



I don't think "accept everybody and every thing" is a lofty ideal. I think it is stupid first even before it is morally wrong.

I find some things ("choices and thoughts") unacceptable and in extreme cases my rejection extends to people promoting or engaging in those choices or promoting those thoughts. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. I see a difference between discernment and close-mindedness.

Some topics are forbidden here. Enforcing those rules results in instances of non-acceptance. I think that's fine. The rules are pretty liberal in the first place (they let me in.)

I have been censored here. I suppose that is a kind of non-acceptance. I didn't take it personally. If I had needed to execute the communication that CM censored there are plenty of other ways to do so. I think that while there are some small-minded individuals here the culture overall is is very broad-minded. If a certain individual chooses not to accept me my equilibrium is not disturbed. If I were being quite roundly rejected, well why would you want to hang around where you are roundly rejected?

Beyond violating stated rules I have seldom ever seen someone rejected in a general way around here for their ideas. When rejections happen it usually seems to be in response to chronic oafishness or acute assholyness. It isn't what you say but how you say it, right? I presume you won't suffer some insufferable prick in another venue, so why here?

There is a pervasive, daytime-TV-driven ethos which says that this person:

"I'm just being myself when I shit on birthday cakes. Everyone has the right to express himself. You shouldn't judge me. Judging is wrong. Everything is equal. So what time is the party? Oh, and I don't eat seafood or dairy and I don't do presents."

... gets an invitation every time. He doesn't get an invitation from me because I am very comfortable passing judgement on bad behavior. I am also very comfortable in not-accepting bad behavers.

Beyond that, sometimes in a very subjective way one person rubs another person the wrong way and there will be a more individual sort of non-acceptance. This can be handled well or badly, but if it is handled with decorum I think this right should be exercised here as well as anywhere.

We may all be kinky be aren't all masochists.

I think that we could be more decorous sometimes but overall the situation is about right. Whoever is handing out the "ultimate reassurances" should be removed from the Welcome Wagon for re-training.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 12:51:38 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		in this great country of ours we are aloud to say what we think about things in other countries they are not so lucky to do such things
we take what we do for granted to much but here is my point if i do not like what you do or are like i will tell you so its my right too
if you do not like what i do what i am thats ok your right too you can even try and say i am wrong its your 5th amendemnt right too
so all i have to say about this forum is this be what you want do what you want so long as it does not take away from others or interefere with the growth and harmony of others it is when we force our way and try to make someone else in to us we will fail in a big way
namaste

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 5:00:28 AM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Now IcyOne, I take exception to your statements. There are no Dogma nor Doctrine that labels you as "sin incarnate". As a Theologian and Ethicist I can say that. I can also say that there have been times in history where the fear of people like you caused others to use religion as an excuse. So.....while your own mind, your ignorance to Catholicism is justified to YOURSELF, it does not make it true.


I never suggested that such statements were TRUE. Only that some may take that stance with me, and that I accept it because they are entitled to not only their beliefs, but also their own interpertations of who and what I may be. The same goes for me. I know the Bible, I was raised Catholic until the age of 27, when I converted over to witchcraft. It does not mean that I am against Catholics, only that I too, am entitled to my beliefs, and to my own interpertations of who and what they may be in regards to their actions towards me.

The whole point of my statement was nothing more than to insist that as long as I am at peace within myself, the opinions and justifications of others matter not to me. As long as you are true to yourself, then others should not matter.

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 5:53:00 AM   
Chris123


Posts: 22
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		Racists' beliefs lead them lynch people based on colour. In olden times, conservatives thought that it was right to kill people if they exhibited strange or non-conformist behaviour. They were just as "justified" as people today who shun others for differences in religion and etcetera.
In most cases, conflict over differences is caused by lack of research, ignorance. People don't bother to even consider, to *think for themselves* about the possibilty to a good side or a benefit from the different way someone else thinks and believes.
Morals are instintive, easy to interpret and very clear-cut. Prejudice is clearly immoral. It is clear that judging people's religion *solely* because they are different is immoral. Stupidity is the biggest sin of mankind and this planet has it in droves.
People will be raised on a certain religion, stick with it 'til death, never question it and shun most of the world for its diversity. It's easier to do what the book says than to think for yourself. People will actually willfully ignore new information as they believe it may lead them to the path towards the devil. Yes, sure, maybe your soul will be more pure if you refuse to listen to other points of veiw. You already know the truth, cos your parents said so and they're the whole world. Small-mindedness really should not be acceptable.

I don't think anybody is truly "justified" in judging me for my differences in religion or lifestyle or preference. My choices are based on ethics and logic. I make sure I am not hurting anyone. There is no justice in making an ignorant, prejudiced decision about me or anyone.
If your dislike and actions can be backed up with facts, ethics and firm logic, THEN you are justified. But most people don't think that hard. It's the easiest and most fulfilling thing to do, but sadly overlooked by too many.

Sorry, this is pretty long. I've been drinking earlier and I tend to go off on tangents sometimes. Like this one time when I...

(in reply to IceyOne)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 6:16:01 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119


quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

quote:

So, what are the reasons? are they justified?... do we deserve it from time to time. do others deserved it?


I like the color black. I wear it daily. I also practice withcraft on a daily basis. Does this mean that I am a Devil worshipper? Of course not. My reasons for wearing that color, and for practicing my religion are justified in my own mind. But to a devout Catholic...I am nothing more than sin incarnate. Their reasons for believing that? Because the Bible says so. Is it justified? Sure, in their own mind it is. They are entitled to their beliefs, just as I am entitled to mine.

(middle section taken out by sunshine)

It is impossible to control how others will react to you, or to something that you said, or to something that you do. All you can do is make sure that in YOUR own mind, your actions are justified and true to YOURSELF. Once you have reached that stage, the beliefs, opinions, and acceptance of others should not matter.


Now IcyOne, I take exception to your statements. There are no Dogma nor Doctrine that labels you as "sin incarnate". As a Theologian and Ethicist I can say that. I can also say that there have been times in history where the fear of people like you caused others to use religion as an excuse. So.....while your own mind, your ignorance to Catholicism is justified to YOURSELF, it does not make it true.


I can agree in part with the comments regarding being labeled “I am nothing more than sin incarnate. Their reasons for believing that? Because the Bible says so. Is it justified? Sure, in their own mind it is.” However whilst I have been so labeled by some areas of the Catholic Faith, it has never happened with the Ordained Priests and those with a good grounding of Church Education. (Amongst my personal friends are a number of Priests and Bishops). However, sadly the majority of those who would have me either burned at the stake or have a stake driven through my black heart (their comments, not mine) are members of the Methodist and Baptist Churches as well as the Radical Christian Groups who attempt to dominate and influence politics both in Australia and the US. Some of the folk can indeed produce doctrine which supports their beliefs. Regarding the Catholic Church, I agree that there is no dogma (at least public dogma) supporting that anyone who wears black is evil or sin incarnate. How could they as their dress code traditionally has been black, black and black until you are elevated to the purple.

The one question I have raised and never been answered is: “Does the Vatican issue purple knickers?”

For those who love wearing purple, “Did you know that it is believed that those who wear purple are sexually frustrated?” Perhaps this is a way in which sexually frustrated sub/slaves and/or Dominants can advertise their sexual status!


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 12:09:36 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		there is this thing called balance for every reaction pos or neg there is a reaction its what reaction you want to achive for example if you want to influnce others you do positive things if you want to push other away you do negtive things. if the mass is mainly christain then you need to think about what it is you do to reflect your point of view sand paper only erodes wood where as time causes wood to grow

:)

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 12:56:26 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Basically:
1. I'll give you a fair go ~ Untill you screw me about.

2. I'll accept you on face value ~ Untill I find you were telling me porkies.

3. I'll help you as much as I am able ~ And ask for nothing in return.

4. I'll treat you with kindness and consideration ~ If you abuse me, then I'll deduct browney points.

5. I'll welcome you into my home as a guest ~ If you abuse or insult my family and/or property, I'll deduct you from the brownie points.


LOL you said it so much nicer than I did IronBear

I have a gutter mouth, what can I say


_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 1:23:07 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris123
In olden times, conservatives thought that it was right to kill people if they exhibited strange or non-conformist behaviour.


In the United States, conservatives still think that.

(in reply to Chris123)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 3:18:57 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
We may all be kinky be aren't all masochists
=================================

but but but

i'm not even kinky



_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 3:43:41 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Basically:
1. I'll give you a fair go ~ Untill you screw me about.

2. I'll accept you on face value ~ Untill I find you were telling me porkies.

3. I'll help you as much as I am able ~ And ask for nothing in return.

4. I'll treat you with kindness and consideration ~ If you abuse me, then I'll deduct browney points.

5. I'll welcome you into my home as a guest ~ If you abuse or insult my family and/or property, I'll deduct you from the brownie points.


LOL you said it so much nicer than I did IronBear

I have a gutter mouth, what can I say




Thank you Irish Mist.


May the stars ever shine in thy eyes,
May the moon ever light thy path,
May the sun ever warm thee,
May thy cup ever be overflowing,
May thy board ever be full,
May thy purse ever hand gold to spare,
May the sky never fall on thee,
May the earth never open up and swallow thee,
May she who keeps the cauldron of rebirth keep thee close to her heart.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/16/2006 8:08:21 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Individuals that enter into the our lifestyle communities here on line or in the Face to Face encounters are often given the ultimate reassurances that the people in this lifesytle are an accepting and open-minded mob of people. That your choices and thoughts will be accepted and appreciated as your right to choose.

Yeah, we really ought to stop doing that... its kinda cruel to fuck with the newbs like that! LOL Seriously... while it does get said a lot... I take it with a large grain of salt.


quote:

I suspose there is many reasons to why we come here and see a lack of acceptance for others and even feel it directed towards ourselves, I know I felt it. I would even be so bold to say that we have on occassion been unaccepting of others from time to time, I know I have.

So, what are the reasons? are they justified?... do we deserve it from time to time. do others deserved it?

Oh I'd say there is a myriad of reasons.

For some its insecurity... they're unsure of themselves and thus feel keenly threatened by anyone who disagrees with them or does things differently (since that immediately causes them to question themselves).

For some its self righteousness.... they're sure their way is the one true way and they honestly believe it... thus anyone who disagrees or is different simply must be wrong.

For some its just having a bad day... lets face it, we all do and when we're grumpy we tend to be less tolerant than we ought to... we're only human after all.

Sometimes its a situation of someone saying or doing something that experience has taught us is wrong... and maybe it really is.

Sometimes we're reacting to someone we think is a fraud, or a braggart... or just plain nuts.

Is it justified... sometimes.. sometimes not. I think in just about all cases the person themself feels justified... whether that is objectively is another quesiton entirely. Most of it is subjective, except perhaps in those cases where it becomes clear that the object of the intolerance really is a fraud or a braggart or a nutcase or some other such.

What... you were expecting a simple answer?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 3:59:49 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I suspose there is many reasons to why we come here and see a lack of acceptance for others and even feel it directed towards ourselves, I know I felt it. I would even be so bold to say that we have on occassion been unaccepting of others from time to time, I know I have.



The next question is how do we demonstrate acceptance? If two people cannot agree on the behaviors that show acceptance, then they will more likely feel unaccepted by each other. So what demonstrates acceptance?

kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 4:09:59 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I think there's an expectation to be open minded because we're all so very different from the close mindedness of those not involved with WIITWD. However, we're all still just human, and can not comprehend the desires of all around us.

I have never met another human who completely accepts without question or comment the desires of every other human. We seek to understand and often don't trust what we cannot comprehend. To think that just because you're kinky means that you accept all without question is ridiculous and naive.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 4:56:03 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The next question is how do we demonstrate acceptance? If two people cannot agree on the behaviors that show acceptance, then they will more likely feel unaccepted by each other. So what demonstrates acceptance?


Understanding that each person is an individual, who has their own individual behaviors...behaviors that are unique only to them...

I think that once you understand and accept this, then general acceptance of others will occur.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 7:53:38 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

What... you were expecting a simple answer?


not a simple answer.... BUT, I was expecting a good one..... and I wasn't disappointed!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 9:14:07 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		i have to say i use to think that way but the world different now i am a hard ass hard core one way or else person its kinda like a engineer that builds things you try all kinds of designs till you find the one that works and i have Now while i do not deny anyone else that same discovery process so long as what you dose not take away from what i do or have your free to be you and all the things that come with it but come between me and my happyness i will fight you i love t his country i respect our president and support his views
each person has the right to be them do not come pr live in this great country and try to change it to fit you if you live here you abided by what is set in stone that just the way it is its our heratage and culture america has set values of our fore fathers for a good reason

namaste

< Message edited by LATEXBABY64 -- 1/20/2006 9:17:30 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/20/2006 10:03:43 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris123
In olden times, conservatives thought that it was right to kill people if they exhibited strange or non-conformist behaviour.


In the United States, conservatives still think that.



LOL, I love it, this thread is about acceptance, yet gross generalizations about religion and conservatives, are being thrown around.

I more identify myself as a conservative in all but this pretty much. I believe in conservative economics(not what bush is doing, conservative would be balanced budget), I'm a firm believer in the original interpretation of the constitution, I believe in small government. Just because the "President" or whoever says they are conservative and for some reason you don't like them, don't assume they represent the majority of people that identify themselves as conservative. Alot of "liberals" would run away screaming if they read the stuff on this site. It always amazes me that people can readily agree that some forms of prejudice are bad like racism being the most obvious, but then lump half the country in a catch all phrase like conservative. It doesn't mean war monger, or racist, some may be, but there are liberals with those flaws as well.

Anyway lincoln was a conservative republican and he freed the slaves. Doesn't speak well for the racist theory. I'm not racist, either, and before someone starts I'm not for bush, I wasn't for kerry either though, where's a Ross Perot when you need one. He's probably the closest to a "real" conservative that has ran for president in sometime. In terms of being a fiscal conservative.

Thanks, just had the overwhelming need to point that out.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/21/2006 9:00:37 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well ... I'm somewhat in the habit of putting that little winky thing at the end of a line, to indicate harmless teasing.

<--- (like this one here)

BUT ... since you started this ... and mentioned balanced budgets and conservatives:

The last Republican President to submit a balanced budget was Eisenhower, who submitted two balanced budgets in his four year administration. Before him, a Republican President had not submitted a balanced budget since Abraham Lincoln was in office.

The list of Democratic Presidents that have submitted balanced budgets is long. Just in the last 60 years or so:
Clinton - 5
LBJ - 2
Truman - 2
FDR - 6

That's 15 balanced budgets to 2, since the beginning of FDR's three terms.

Since the start of the second world war, for every dollar the debt has increased while a Democratic President was in office, it has increased $2.87 with a Republican President in office. If you look at that same time period, with a Republican President and a Republican majority in Congress, the debt has increased $11.23 for every dollar it increased with a Democratic President and Democratic control in Congress. In all fairness, the majority of that gap belongs to just two Republican Presidents, Ronald Reagan and our current President. Our current President has raised the national debt in five years, more than every Democratic President combined, since the founding of our nation.

Please forgive me for highjacking this thread, and thank you for your time ... cc

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/21/2006 10:57:59 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		>The most important achievement in political economy in the Clinton yeas was reducing the federal deficit. Just before his inauguration Clinton held an economic summit in Little Rock, at which academic, business executives, and financiers one after another moaned about how huge federal borrowing to cover debt was making capital too expensive to allow industry to grow. One year later Clinton had rammed through a tax-and -budget bill that turned a chronic deficit into a surplus.

The anti-deficit drive was controversial within the Democratic Party, because Clinton seemed to be truckling to financial markets rather than spending more for education and health. It was bitterly resisted by the Republicans; every single Republican member of Congress voted against the new taxes in the plan. It was an enormous gamble on Clinton's part: he had Al Gore cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate. The historical judgment has to be that it paid off, for Clinton, and, of vastly more importance, for the country.

--James Fallows <

>But two things stick out so far from the normal that they will probably be remembered no matter what happens. One of them is the sheer insensate virulence of his critics. If size can be measured by the lip-frothing frustration of one's enemies, Clinton is right up there with Moby-Dick. The other is the five-minute standing ovation Clinton received at the UN at the height of the Monica madness. The applause couldn't all have been for adultery--not even the applause from the French Ambassador.

And even if, as his critics maintain, its was all a trick both at home and abroad, the trick had worked wonderfully well. But he couldn't have gotten all five minutes without Kenneth Starr. <

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Acceptance to be US? and Accept for others to be Them? - 1/21/2006 11:16:27 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Its a poltician's first job, Republican or Democrat, to bring Federal pork back to his home state. Newt Gingrinch's district received more federal money than almost any other Congressional District in the country during his tenure.

So, how can you you bring money back home and cut taxes at the same time? Easy, borrow and spend. Reagan turned the traditional Republican platforms of "cutting spending" and reducing "big government." into empty rhetoric, as he actually increased spending and the size of the Federal Gov't while saying otherwise. Its sad how he's been revererd for doing this, and how Republicans still emulate him.

I see it more as generational warfare.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 60
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