RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which took about thee seconds"

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RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/6/2009 11:20:10 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Don't need satelite, Wimax will do fine and if some of that money was spent to put WiMax in every major city, it would be one hell of a technology infrastructure. Yeah some of the communications companies may suffer but giving internet access to everybody would be of greater benefit in my opinion.

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(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 21

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 12:04:24 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Don't need satelite, Wimax will do fine and if some of that money was spent to put WiMax in every major city, it would be one hell of a technology infrastructure. Yeah some of the communications companies may suffer but giving internet access to everybody would be of greater benefit in my opinion.

Universal broadband service, at least 256K up down, would be a huge economic benefit. This is the best thing they could do if they wanted to do something useful. It really doesn't have to measure in the megabits, it just needs to be universal. As it would have tons of side effects that would increase efficiency. Transport, general communication. Eventually even remote controlled vehicles,

I doubt if they kept the "Free" universal access below a Megabit for now, it would interfere with Internet providers, seeing Most of the ISP's are now starting to role out 10 plus megabit packages and some 50 plus megabits. Hell, even Charter is in Saint Louis is going to offer a 60 megabit connection.

It very well could mean the end of cellphones though, but phone service is such an mundane thing, really it should cost like a dollar a month anyway, if not just a freebie by your cable company, it really costs little in terms of data.

Anyway, that is one thing they could do, that would be nearly universally beneficial for everyone whether it be direct use or indirect benefit.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 22

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 5:24:20 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

This "stimulus "package" should be analyzed from different point of view. It shows how Washington operates and the extent of the disconnect with reality and with electorate they are supposedly serving. Somebody who knows Washington well can probably extract lot of information from the bill. Who among Congressmen has more influence. The scary part is that there is very little discussion about how the projects exactly will be financed. Do they simply print money devaluing currency or do they hope somebody will buy this much US Treasury bonds? The last is doubtful.

You are spot on with your concerns. Passage of this Bill, even after the so called "compromise" is probably the death knell for our economy over the next few years. What we have here is not a "stimulus bill" but monumentally sized "Monument Bill". The Big Government intrusion into our lives that got us into this mess is only going to grow like a cancer on steroids. Does anyone REALLY believe that any "shovel ready" (another bit of bullshit) project initiated by government comes in within 200% of budget? We are going to spend hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money to build government buildings and bridges so that they can be named after the politician of the State that ripped the money for that projecst out of our pockets. As far as creating job..gimme a break. The largest municipal project since the pyramids was the Boston "Big Dig". That project started off with an estimated cost (mostly from the Federal Government) of a bit over $6 billion..the final cost..over $22 Billion! And how many people worked on this project..according to an article in the Washington Post, at its peak, 5,000 people were working on this project. You do the math.
Not only are we being told to bend over and hold our ankles, we have to listen to our Masters and Mistresses in Washington congratulate each other on what a fine job the other did,how "bi-partisan" was the spirit of our conference, how we worked "long and hard for two days to put this trillion dollar deal together for the American people!

I am fully expecting a proposal from this Congress to amend the Constitution to allow "Sainthood" to our esteemed leaders. After all..no one in America works harder than our Congress...heck..no one in the world!!

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 23

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:08:23 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

How bout we start a national spending week website instead of this.. everyone's savings in this country is INCREASING and money markets, the stock market, savings account, etc interest rates continues to plummet.. so go out, buy a car, buy a house, invest some semi-risky money, go on vacay, have some dinners, tip your facialist/massage therapist/waitress well, buy some furniture, whatever, go.. stimulate the economy....! =)

hermione, the problem is that is what people HAVE been doing. And they did it without having the money to do so. The US savings rate has been negative. There was money artificially created out of thin air (loans given to uncreditworthy people and housing appreciation factored in that never materialized), and people were spending it. A bubble economy.

A portion of the economy was dependent on the bubble. Due to leverage, the effect was greater than it should have been.

Now the bubble is deflating. This is a natural process. The issue is that it's sucking a lot of wind out of the economy as it deflates.

So what can/should we do?

One obvious solution is to do nothing, and suffer through the pain. This is politically unacceptable, the equivalent of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Another solution is to let the collapse happen, and beef up the safety net, the social programs to catch the afflicted. This would be my choice, but the problem is that the revenues needed to fund those programs are drying up as the bubble pops, and right when the funds are needed most.

The solution chosen is disgraceful. It involves spending inconceivable amounts of money to create the impression that "we're doing all we can" at the same time saying that people need to be patient, and these $700 gazillion expenditures cannot be expected to fix a BAD problem in any kind of near term. Making the problem much worse as the only option to doing nothing.

When Paulson first came to the Senate with his three page handscrawled message asking for $700 bil with no plan and no oversight, he should have been bitch slapped and laughed at. When those bozos took him seriously, that was a big sign of trouble.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 24

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:15:33 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Only in Washington can the solution to a problem caused by bad debt be much much more bad debt.

We are so fucked...

quote:

The solution chosen is disgraceful. It involves spending inconceivable amounts of money to create the impression that "we're doing all we can" at the same time saying that people need to be patient, and these $700 gazillion expenditures cannot be expected to fix a BAD problem in any kind of near term. Making the problem much worse as the only option to doing nothing.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 25

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:39:20 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
You didn`t address my question or the topic,Merc.
Has your guy bush`s destruction of capitalism, still got you punchy?

59,
I'm doing quite well, thanks for asking. Liquidity is king and will be for some time with the second half of the Bush stimulus plan being championed by President Obama and the Democratic Congress. Why did it take a change of party for you to like a policy that you hated? Are you really that influenced by the color blue? President Bush's ideas for stimulus with a big dose of Democratic pork and special interest payback.

If I thought that was a good recipe for positive result - I would be punchy.

I again praise you for your consistency; distraction and avoidance. "What's the plan?"

Your reason for you love affair with President Obama is obvious. You both don't answer questions, and attempt to change the focus. You'll need those skills in the coming months.

quote:

Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing. Well, to an extent, anyway. I'm in the process of moving almost all of my money out of the stock market, probably permanently, and into other investments. Selling into the rallies and transferring the money into a savings account. I think I'm done with the stock market once and for all

We have much in common Panda - Looking forward to seeing you later today! "bud"

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 26

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:45:35 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline

"Your reason for you love affair with President Obama is obvious. You both don't answer questions, and attempt to change the focus. You'll need those skills in the coming months"

Name 1 elected offical in the last 25 years that actually answered a dam question without party spin to change the focus.

You're not suggesting that Bush answered questions without attempting to change the focus while he was president are you?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:45:50 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

I'm not sure why anyone is complaining about this anymore. I did the math:

The Universe has been in existence about 14Gyr (14 billion years.)

So that means that the stimulus plan only costs $60 per year since the UNIVERSE BEGAN. Wotta deal. Only about $0.18 per week...just a little over 2 cents a day.

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 28

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 6:47:41 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

You're not suggesting that Bush answered questions without attempting to change the focus while he was president are you?

\
You're not suggesting that there is no "CHANGE!" in the White House are you?

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 29

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 7:22:52 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
You didn`t address my question or the topic,Merc.
Has your guy bush`s destruction of capitalism, still got you punchy?

59,
I'm doing quite well, thanks for asking. Liquidity is king and will be for some time with the second half of the Bush stimulus plan being championed by President Obama and the Democratic Congress. Why did it take a change of party for you to like a policy that you hated? Are you really that influenced by the color blue? President Bush's ideas for stimulus with a big dose of Democratic pork and special interest payback.

If I thought that was a good recipe for positive result - I would be punchy.

I again praise you for your consistency; distraction and avoidance. "What's the plan?"

Your reason for you love affair with President Obama is obvious. You both don't answer questions, and attempt to change the focus. You'll need those skills in the coming months.

quote:

Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing. Well, to an extent, anyway. I'm in the process of moving almost all of my money out of the stock market, probably permanently, and into other investments. Selling into the rallies and transferring the money into a savings account. I think I'm done with the stock market once and for all

We have much in common Panda - Looking forward to seeing you later today! "bud"

Are you sure Merc?I mean if my favorite president went and ruined the capitalist system as we know it,I`d be a little moogie.

My Plan?lol

I got a plan,and voted him in last Nov.

Again,you`re either not admitting to the crisis and or are unaware of it.

Maybe we should get that straight 1st.Do you believe we`re in the midst of a serious crisis ,that`s getting worse?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No one knows where half the bush bail-out is,....... and the banks who got it, aren`t lending it out.Those maleficent MFers.

Are you counting on them lending the "2nd" half of the bush 700 billion bailout money,and that`s what will turn things around?

Is that what you said?

Still on the bush "plan", Merc?.

Cuz they ain`t gonna lend that money out either.bush never made any rules for them to follow regarding the money.Remember?Don`t hold your breath.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again,what`s your plan for unfreezing the credit markets and injecting liquidity into the system.

Are you aware of the liquidity/credit/banking crisis?

I`m hoping for a more sincere answer than your waiting for the rest of the bush bailout plan to kick in.All that money`s gonna end up in bank vaults,sitting,like the 1st bit of it is.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/7/2009 7:28:13 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 7:29:49 AM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

I'm not sure why anyone is complaining about this anymore. I did the math:

The Universe has been in existence about 14Gyr (14 billion years.)

So that means that the stimulus plan only costs $60 per year since the UNIVERSE BEGAN. Wotta deal. Only about $0.18 per week...just a little over 2 cents a day.

I'm actually for the stimulus bill, but I gotta say, that got a huge giggle out me! Kind of brings things into perspective...!!!

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to Crush)

Post #: 31

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 7:40:20 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I got a plan,and voted him in last Nov.

And how is using the same plan as President Bush working out for you? May have as well voted for a 3rd term.

quote:

Again,you`re either not admitting to the crisis and or are unaware of it.

I've said the first bail out created a crises and this one compounds it. Still waiting for a solution, and again, didn't expect a third term of Bush policies being considered 'CHANGE!'.

quote:

No one knows where half the bush bail-out is,....... and the banks who got it, aren`t lending it out.Those maleficent MFers

The core of why more than "3 seconds" should have gone into the 2nd half of the Bush Stimulus. The money given to banks didn't add lending ability. It only got the asset lending base closer to zero by giving them money to cover the losses. Having a negative asset worth on the books limits lending; providing money which covers the negative - has a net lending availability increase of ZERO. Yet another reason to put the same money and stimulate a successful bank. It would have increased lending if the failures failed and the successes had additional asset contributions.

See- that took MUCH longer than 3 seconds.

quote:

No one knows where half the bush bail-out is

Surprised you of all people site this. Democratic controlled congressional oversight was and is very lax. Why do you think it's improved with this batch?

quote:

I`m hoping for a more sincere answer than your waiting for the rest of the bush bailout plan to kick in

It didn't kick in then and it won't kick in now as the 'Obama Stimulus Plan'. They are still giving money to failures which won't increase lending. They are spending from a bankrupt source. They are operating by the same failed policies of the past 8 years and expecting a different result.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 32

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 7:45:54 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

done.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 7:50:39 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

I'm not sure why anyone is complaining about this anymore. I did the math:

The Universe has been in existence about 14Gyr (14 billion years.)

So that means that the stimulus plan only costs $60 per year since the UNIVERSE BEGAN. Wotta deal. Only about $0.18 per week...just a little over 2 cents a day.

I'm actually for the stimulus bill, but I gotta say, that got a huge giggle out me! Kind of brings things into perspective...!!!

Always run the numbers....makes you glad you paid attention in Algebra class in high school ..

Now, finding absurd numbers, that is more fun!

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 34

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 8:19:56 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

More math!

If you go Fundie...

800 billion dollars / 10 thousand years...80,000,000 per year (~220,000 dollars per DAY!)

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to Crush)

Post #: 35

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 8:33:26 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

More math!

If you go Fundie...

800 billion dollars / 10 thousand years...80,000,000 per year (~220,000 dollars per DAY!)

Congratulation crush and T. I think you both have unearth the math that Ms. Pelosi and her team use to rape the taxpayer. Why didn't I think of taking a trillion dollar package and amortizing it over 4 billion years, or a more "conservative" 10,000 years.
Unfortunately...it would only work if you could also "finance" this package with the same duration.

As far as the age of the planet...that is questionable but don't let it interfere with the math, Ms.Pelosi. Guess around 4 billion years works for most of us at the moment..but it could be older.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

(in reply to Crush)

Post #: 36

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 10:30:56 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline

According to Bush the planet has not been around nearly as long as everyone is saying. You know that whole evolution thing is not real, God created Adam and Eve, yada yada yada, I'm just saying....

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 37

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 11:31:29 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

That's why the 10,000 year calculation.....

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 38

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 11:49:01 AM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The main problem is that the theft has already occurred. We are going to be so fucked that the light from fucked will take twelve minutes to reach us.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

That's gotta be one of the best lines / catch phrases I've ever heard in my entire life LOL!!!!!!

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 39

RE: Stimulus: "We simply made a decision, which to... - 2/7/2009 12:21:13 PM

DedicatedDom40

Posts: 350
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Universal broadband service, at least 256K up down, would be a huge economic benefit. This is the best thing they could do if they wanted to do something useful. It really doesn't have to measure in the megabits, it just needs to be universal. As it would have tons of side effects that would increase efficiency. Transport, general communication. Eventually even remote controlled vehicles,

I doubt if they kept the "Free" universal access below a Megabit for now, it would interfere with Internet providers, seeing Most of the ISP's are now starting to role out 10 plus megabit packages and some 50 plus megabits. Hell, even Charter is in Saint Louis is going to offer a 60 megabit connection.

It very well could mean the end of cellphones though, but phone service is such an mundane thing, really it should cost like a dollar a month anyway, if not just a freebie by your cable company, it really costs little in terms of data.

We need a public policy that returns television signals to the airwaves (like it used to be), and use the freed up capacity in all that underground fiber for next generation phone services and internet broadband at ten times the speed we have now. That way, our access to information has some redundancy (seperate delivery technology, so a failure in one technology doesnt completley shut off our access to all information).

The dumbest thing this country ever did was our change to delivering the TV signal via ground based wires.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 40

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