RE: forced bi help???

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QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 6:29:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanguinarian I believe it is a requirement not only to provide 'aftercare' for a submissive/slave/pet, but just plain care. It appears to me that this Domme first, did not provide basic emotional care for her submissive, but then compounded the problem by not providing adequate aftercare during his 'conditioning'. If she had, there either would not be a problem in the first place, or, the problem would have been addressed immediately afterward and Sixpack would not be experiencing doubts and misgivings. Now my only inquiry would be: How many Dommes actually know what Aftercare is, and just how important it is? I hate to say that only 1 out of every 8, on average, have a clue. They just want to get their rocks off and think they are entitled to random acts of stupidity and lack of many things when it comes to the mental and emotional health of those they take on. But then, of course, if those Dommes were educated, we would have a lot less damaged submissives and slaves. For those who think of submissives/slaves, as mere property, here is a note for you. If you have a vase or some equally useful, but still property item, would you break it on purpose? So why 'break' a pet? I hear you. This was well written. I would also add thought that there is the issue of boundaries and basic respect. We all know that pushing boundaries is part of D/s, but there are ways, times and places to do it properly and furthermore there are boundaries and then there are boundaries. What has been annoying me the most in reading some of the responses here is not only disregard for boundaries, but the fact that those boundaries aren't even acknowledged as existing in the first place.

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 6:33:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1 Why is it so hard for D/s to be a mutually agreeable experience? Why do some Dom/mes think of it this way... well I like x and the sub likes x, but just because the sub likes x, we will do y, because the sub hates y, and even though y really does nothing for me, I know s/he hates it, so that's what I will do. I understand there is control in forced bi, but in reality, what does a Domme get out of forced bi? Control? If your sub doesn't want to do forced bi, find your control another way, or find another sub. Edited to add: better to pass on a sub than to fuck a sub's mind up for life, right? Also well said. My Dom philosophy has always included being caring for my girls. Part of being caring is seeing that their needs are provided for. There is nothing un-Dom about it. A good Dom, Like a good father, a good husband or a just good man takes care of his women. Unlike the vanilla world, I expect obedience in return and the trust that my instructions are for both of our benefits.

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 6:35:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact LOL. Well, for one, I get a really hot, live sex show. For those who don't particularly like that answer, how about asking how many of the male Dominants out there enjoy watching two females together? Just because the genders are reversed shouldn't mean anything. ETA: Exactly how does anyone figure that a same sex encounter will screw someone up for life? More to the point, how does getting an erection? Unless I'm mistaken, that was the OP's concern. Oh please stop being so willfully blind. First off, if I had a submissive who was not Bi or Bi curious I would never even consider trying to push her to be with another woman. Why? Well again it has something to do with respecting her as a person.

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 6:37:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: msselenesweewee YES!! What a brilliant job your Domme has done, and what IS wrong with being turned on by other guys? Be proud to show it [;)] and make sure that people see it. The whole point is that sex is a pleasure, not a shame!! Hope you get happy. Msselenesweewee xx Yea, I am sure the other guys in the locker room would have been tickled pink to know they got the guy over there hard. They probibly would have even showed their appreciation in some way. If his domme had been doing a brilliant job, she would have listened when he said he really didn't want to go there. Well said.

LadyPact -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 7:20:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact LOL. Well, for one, I get a really hot, live sex show. For those who don't particularly like that answer, how about asking how many of the male Dominants out there enjoy watching two females together? Just because the genders are reversed shouldn't mean anything. ETA: Exactly how does anyone figure that a same sex encounter will screw someone up for life? More to the point, how does getting an erection? Unless I'm mistaken, that was the OP's concern. Oh please stop being so willfully blind. First off, if I had a submissive who was not Bi or Bi curious I would never even consider trying to push her to be with another woman. Why? Well again it has something to do with respecting her as a person. Again, I will ask you to remember that the OP hasn't gone that far by what has been written here. The guy got an erection because something clicked in him that turned him on. That could have been anything from being in the type of surroundings that were visual links to what the two of them had been discussing, or even just his thinking about what she told him turned her on, which in turn excited him. It really has very little to do with whether or not you think I'm blind. The thing is, I happen to see a lot more possibilities in this scenario that I don't think you're seeing. There's a very good possibility that the matter isn't black and white. If it were, it would be a case of communicating that it is a hard limit, which I've already suggested to the OP. The truth is, without knowing either party, neither of us knows which of us is correct. It's been My personal experience that those males who have this as a hard limit have no qualms about saying so. That makes it an open and shut case and that's been My personal policy on the matter. It doesn't mean that I refrain from discussing My fantasies about the subject. Those fantasies do turn Me on, which in turn can excite a submissive, even if he isn't interested in participating in the physical scene. The OP never used certain phrases that would have made Me think that he was completely against the "torture" of watching gay porn until he brought himself to orgasm. That the "severe punishment" that was inflicted was, oh, so terrible, or the "humiliation" of the experiences with the Dominant too much to bare. You know, they say blind people see the world in other ways. I'll bet many of the female tops on these boards can see this popular theme from a mile away.

MissSepphora1 -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 7:50:19 PM)
I am not a submissive, and I can't see myself as a sub, ESPECIALLY if I was told I was to be a live sex show for the Dom with another woman. I am not bi, not bi curious, and I have never met a woman I would even think about having sex with. That said, if I told a Dom I was not intrested in homosexual experiences, and a Dom told me I'd be conditioned to like it, I'd be out the door. Perhaps the OP is desperate enough to find a Domme and be molded that he is in a way allowing it to happen, even though he doesn't want to. They Domme knows he is not comfortable, and states that he will grow to like it. That is against his will. Whether male or female, pushing someone to experience a sex act against their will is wrong, and goes beyond consentual. It has nothing to do with f/f erotica or m/m erotica, it has to do with consent, the "supposed" basis of D/s.

LadyPact -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 8:10:19 PM)
I'm losing count of how many times I've said this very specifically. The OP did not write the post because he experienced a sex act. It's written in the original that the OP got an erection. I'm willing to lay money on the fact that darn near every male on the planet of adult age has at least one story to tell about getting a boner in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some other things that were never mentioned: The OP never said he didn't want to remain with the Domme. The OP never said it was, in fact, a hard limit. The OP never said he was in no way bi-curious. The OP never said he didn't enjoy the humiliation.

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/17/2009 11:13:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm losing count of how many times I've said this very specifically. The OP did not write the post because he experienced a sex act. It's written in the original that the OP got an erection. I'm willing to lay money on the fact that darn near every male on the planet of adult age has at least one story to tell about getting a boner in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some other things that were never mentioned: The OP never said he didn't want to remain with the Domme. The OP never said it was, in fact, a hard limit. The OP never said he was in no way bi-curious. The OP never said he didn't enjoy the humiliation. Then why was he asking for help? Why did he use the word humiliating? Why was he not happy about his experience in the shower? Please, please stop being so willfully blind. As to not wanting to leave the domme, maybe he is so desperate, he is willing to put up with even this. We do not know. We do know that she does not have the right to force something that major on him without his 100% approval. Why can you not acknowledge that? What is wrong with you?

MzMia -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 4:17:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sixpack I just came home from the gym and had a humiliating experience! A Domme I had recently been playing with had asked me if i would ever be willing to do a bi scene, and i replied that i would rather not. She was very persistant in telling me how much that would turn her on. i still denied, however she started using various schemes as a form of punishment for me. They included watching gay porn and bringing myself to orgasm while watching or looking at various magazines. If I didnt do as she said I was severly punished. Well to make a long story short I got done working out and was in the shower and i became erect looking at other men and was humiliated! Do you believe that people can be brainwashed ? Just curious Did sixpack ever come back? I want to hear from sixpack![;)] I will just say this is a hot topic. I personally don't engage in this activity, because "forcing someone to engage in bisexual activities" would really do nothing for me. For those that "enjoy" being forced bi, and for those that do it, as long as no one get's mentally or physically abused, go for it. If it is causing mental distress, the answer is simple, just say NO! Limit's are created for a reason, if you don't want to engage in sexual activities with other men, just say NO, this is a hard limit and move on. I can think of a trillion and five ways to humilate you, without bringing in another man. [:D] But as always, To each their own.

agirl -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 4:32:45 AM)
The OP didn't say he was asking for help, actually. He asked whether people can be brainwshed. And ended with * Just curious. There wasn't any sign of distress that I could discern. He mentioned feeling humiliated because he got an erection in the shower looking at the other guys. He's 35yrs old and is willingly* putting himself in the postion of wanking over gay porn/mags. He's willingly going through whatever processes she's dictating. His approval is there. She's someone he's been playing with recently, that's all.....and if he was that desperate, he's got more problems than a hard-on in the shower. agirl

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 8:07:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl The OP didn't say he was asking for help, actually. He asked whether people can be brainwshed. And ended with * Just curious. There wasn't any sign of distress that I could discern. He mentioned feeling humiliated because he got an erection in the shower looking at the other guys. He's 35yrs old and is willingly* putting himself in the postion of wanking over gay porn/mags. He's willingly going through whatever processes she's dictating. His approval is there. She's someone he's been playing with recently, that's all.....and if he was that desperate, he's got more problems than a hard-on in the shower. agirl OK what is the title of the thread? Just asking. Can you just say that if he is not cool with this, she has no right to demand it? Can you acknowledge that in general?

agirl -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 12:26:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant quote: ORIGINAL: agirl The OP didn't say he was asking for help, actually. He asked whether people can be brainwshed. And ended with * Just curious. There wasn't any sign of distress that I could discern. He mentioned feeling humiliated because he got an erection in the shower looking at the other guys. He's 35yrs old and is willingly* putting himself in the postion of wanking over gay porn/mags. He's willingly going through whatever processes she's dictating. His approval is there. She's someone he's been playing with recently, that's all.....and if he was that desperate, he's got more problems than a hard-on in the shower. agirl OK what is the title of the thread? Just asking. Can you just say that if he is not cool with this, she has no right to demand it? Can you acknowledge that in general? Yes, I read the title.......and then went on to read his expansion. No, I can't acknowledge that she has no right to demand something he's not cool with because it's not at all clear what kind of set-up he has with her. She has whatever rights he's allowed her. If it's such an ordeal and a bridge too far ...he can say No, this is something I absolutely will not do. Hard limit. He's going along with it. If he IS being pushed in a direction he REALLY doesn't want to go he has a mouth and can use it and he has feet and can use them too. agirl

MissSepphora1 -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 3:09:55 PM)
And obviously no man or woman has been seduced, pushed, begged, guilted, ordered, or manipulated to do something they didn't want to do by someone who was stronger or stronger willed than themself. No, that NEVER happens.

Amaros -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 3:40:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I shouldn't worry unduly. If it was THAT easy to brainwash someone regarding their sexuality, there'd barely be a gay around. The most likely scenario is that you've made some associations regarding getting turned on because it's linked to your domme. If you were forced to wank over fruit and fucking a melon, you'll probably look at a melon and think....'wahay', for a while. agirl My first used a diaphragm, and to this day that clinical smell of K-Y spermicidal lubricant gives me a woody, lol. I don't know what the situation is with the OP, but for general purposes you should be careful with operant conditioning - we all have certain conditioned responses, but you are playing with the brain here in ways that can have permanent effects - nor does LadyPact's observation that the OP is "willingly remaining" have a great deal of validity - women stay with abusive men all the time for various reason, Stockholm syndrome for example - human psychology is complicated. Neither am I saying that's the case here, LadyPact is correct that while the OP sounds distressed, he doesn't sound desperate, for all I know he's trolling, I'm just trying to lay out some general principles here - the subject as far as I can see is more a question of public humiliation than one of forced bi - i.e., the question in my mind is, which thing was the domina attempting to achieve? i.e., she has so far, succeeded at public humiliation, and from my experience, this sort of thing is frowned upon, becuase dragging an unsuspecting public into it non-consensually is considered in poor taste at bare minimum. This is very different, from a forced bi scene in private, and I cannot imagine why the domina would want to stage a public humiliation scene when she's not even there to enjoy it, if that was her intention. In short, it all strikes me as an exellent example of somebody fucking with things they don't know enough about, and somebody suffering the law of unintended consequences.

SurrenderForMe -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 3:43:31 PM)
Brainwashing has been around for a long time. I'd say she was conditioning you. Not necessarily brain washing, more like subliminal conditioning. quote: I just came home from the gym and had a humiliating experience! A Domme I had recently been playing with had asked me if i would ever be willing to do a bi scene, and i replied that i would rather not. She was very persistant in telling me how much that would turn her on. i still denied, however she started using various schemes as a form of punishment for me. They included watching gay porn and bringing myself to orgasm while watching or looking at various magazines. If I didnt do as she said I was severly punished. Well to make a long story short I got done working out and was in the shower and i became erect looking at other men and was humiliated! Do you believe that people can be brainwashed ? Just curious I am curious, where did all the angst and drama come from. What I got from the post was a simple question with a disclaimer that you are just curious? BTW, to the op, congratulations on finding a topic that has so much interest. For my prurient interest since you are an exhibitionist, can I have a picture?

QuixoticErrant -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 3:46:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant quote: ORIGINAL: agirl The OP didn't say he was asking for help, actually. He asked whether people can be brainwshed. And ended with * Just curious. There wasn't any sign of distress that I could discern. He mentioned feeling humiliated because he got an erection in the shower looking at the other guys. He's 35yrs old and is willingly* putting himself in the postion of wanking over gay porn/mags. He's willingly going through whatever processes she's dictating. His approval is there. She's someone he's been playing with recently, that's all.....and if he was that desperate, he's got more problems than a hard-on in the shower. agirl OK what is the title of the thread? Just asking. Can you just say that if he is not cool with this, she has no right to demand it? Can you acknowledge that in general? Yes, I read the title.......and then went on to read his expansion. No, I can't acknowledge that she has no right to demand something he's not cool with because it's not at all clear what kind of set-up he has with her. She has whatever rights he's allowed her. If it's such an ordeal and a bridge too far ...he can say No, this is something I absolutely will not do. Hard limit. He's going along with it. If he IS being pushed in a direction he REALLY doesn't want to go he has a mouth and can use it and he has feet and can use them too. agirl Exactly. It is for him to decide what his limits are and if a Domme truly insists on not respecting them he needs to tell her to go to hell.

LadyPact -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 3:52:39 PM)
No offense to anyone here, but I could create a thread called "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" and it could be all about cbt. As someone who's posted more than a few originals, My personal opinion is that you use the title that will catch the eye of the reader. The title may or may not have much to do with the content of the thread. Personally, I can absolutely accept that this is not cool with the OP. If it isn't, he should say so and that it is a hard limit. (Gee, I feel like I've said that before.) Yet I'll ask you. Can you do the same? Can you go back and say, "Hey. The humiliation factor of this might just be turning the OP on?" Is it possible that the idea of being "forced" is actually what is tripping the OP's trigger? Might it possibly be the same as those scenes where the bottom says "please don't do this to me" all the while, it's the most exciting thing that has ever happened to them? Can each of us here, right now, say this very debate is feeding into what might be the OP's motivations? Can you go past what might be right for you, and look to other possibilities? Can you see more than what might be on the surface? A personal note to Mia. Yes. I can promise you that sixpack has been back to this thread. My best wishes to all.

MissSepphora1 -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 4:01:29 PM)
Well I think I may have just figured out why LadyPact is sooo forceful in defending her own position. No one is buying it, and yet she persists.

LadyPact -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 5:20:38 PM)
Funny, I thought agirl and I were going from the same perspective. The fact that it's ok to use those things that others might not accept because it isn't their kink. Which is ok. I've been wrong before. Oddly enough, no one who's actually participated in this kind of play has written a response in the negative. That's right. That thread that has 600 responses in the "Ask A Mistress" section doesn't mean a thing. ETA. I tend to answer when addressed, as you should already know.

Redoubt -> RE: forced bi help??? (2/18/2009 8:13:22 PM)
I'm sorry, but if it's that much of a hard limit, you resist it. If it's not, and you wish to see how deep the rabbit hole goes you follow. Unless you're tied down firmly and this comes as a surprise (i.e. rape) its consensual... You may be weirded out by it, but as a submissive you have an out (unless as aforementioned) its called the door.

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