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Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 6:49:01 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I am under consideration by a Master who recently gave me a task.  The task is not too difficult but will make me a little uncomfortable.   I took notes on what he wanted, agreed to do it, but found that after I finished talking with him that it made me much more concerned that I thought it would.

The next morning I called him and respectfully asked if I might ask WHY the task was given to me.  His answer was, "because it will please me".  I cautiously proceeded and said that I knew that some Masters would find that such a task would excite their slaves, that some would enjoy the humiliation of the slave, and that for others it would simply mean easy access to them.  He told me that I overthink things, that I am never to ask WHY, just to do what he says and put my full trust in him.

I was in a previous relationship where I rarely got the WHY up front but it would often come later.  Because it was an established relationship I knew that I could trust that he had good reasons behind what he was assigning but it would have been easier for me to deal with to understand fully up front.

My question is, is it common for Masters not to give the WHY?  Am I expecting too much, when a task is a bit difficult, to understand the reasons that it has been assigned other than the fact that it will make him happy and he is in charge?  Or should I be seeing this as a red flag, that so early in a relationship he already feels no need to explain a task beyond the details of how it should be carried out?


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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:08:35 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		It may not be a red flag for everyone, but for me personally it would be, especially very early in the relationship, being given tasks or orders very early in a relationship would be a red flag for me anyway as it's not a D/s relationship right away for me. I don't know someone all that well in the beginning and don't have enough trust in them in the early part to accept that answer. It also then leads me to:

quote:

  never to ask WHY, just to do what he says and put my full trust in him.


as is that how it will be throughout the relationship for however long it lasts? That is something unacceptable to me. I need the whys on certain types of things, not all, but definitely certain.

I do not know how long you've known him, but for me, I won't submit to someone until I know them and trust them and respect them and care for them and then the submission flows. I don't believe personally in the under consideration thing either. Because of that, I probably won't be in a situation like this. I sure hope not.

I hope things work out for you, but it seems like you've got quite a red flag to deal with here. More so because it's so soon after the ending of another relationship as I recall. I'd not want to jump into another relationship so soon after one ends. I did it once and now I take my time and make sure it's right before taking certain steps.



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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:26:49 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Thank you for the input.  The question is a general one, however; one that I thought that others might get benefit from.  Perhaps not getting an explanation behind WHY is common in the BDSM community and I just haven't seen it.  When I was a Domme I chose to tell my subs my reasons though sometimes left it for after the task.  If that was the case then they knew that the explanation would be coming later.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:28:52 AM   
nafakcha


Posts: 81
Joined: 12/28/2008
From: Melbourne, FL
Status: offline 		I am often told I overthink things, and I probably do. However, it is part of my nature and something that anyone in a relationship, D/s or not, has to deal with. It would make a great deal of difference to me if it was Master that asked me to do something that made me uncomfortable NOW versus when W/we had first met. If He asked me NOW the why would not matter and I would just do it because it would please Him. However, if He asked me when W/we first met the why most definitely would have mattered. We are at a very different point now then W/we were then.

To me, the entire point of consideration or even the "getting to know you phase" is that you learn what the other person likes and dislikes, their personal style and you build up that level of trust. Trust is not something that is instantly formed between two individuals, it is built brick by brick over time and takes both parties to build. During the consideration process both parties are deciding if they want to proceed and take the relationship further. Regardless of how formalized your make this within your relationship i think everyone goes through this initial phase and during this time period to be told that asking WHY is not acceptable and that you are to (blindly) put your full trust in someone you are still learning to trust without completely understanding the task - or even knowing that at some point later you will understand and have the task explained to you - would be at the very least a YELLOW if not RED flag to me.

Of course, this all depends on what someone is looking for in a D/s relationship. Since you are asking these questions and have these feelings then IMHO this behavior constitutes a Yellow or Red flag. If this was me, I would respectfully ask that you be allowed to have a serious discussion about your relationship and how it is structured. IMHO any dominant worth their salt wants to know when their submissive is having issues, even if they choose to do nothing, and will sit down and listen to a respectful conversation about the problem.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:42:26 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Thank you for the input.  The question is a general one, however; one that I thought that others might get benefit from.  Perhaps not getting an explanation behind WHY is common in the BDSM community and I just haven't seen it.  When I was a Domme I chose to tell my subs my reasons though sometimes left it for after the task.  If that was the case then they knew that the explanation would be coming later.


Ah ok. I don't think it's common in the bdsm community so much as maybe online it is. I have seen it there often, but rarely in person. I stand by what I said though. It is a huge red flag for me if someone I just started talking to or just met, or hadn't known for very long started giving me tasks or orders and refused to tell me why, tell me the purpose in it. It's the same to me as the ones who want naked pics, cam performances and detailed accounts of all your kinky, sexual fantasies right away. For me it means I end the association because they don't care to know me the person and I don't care to be a life support system for their wanking pleasure.

Edited to add: For me, the beginning is the getting to know the person stage, seeing if there is something there outside of possible compatible kinks. If it seems there's something there, then the process of building trust starts, but it's not D/s for me until I know the person a whole lot better, trust them, care about them and feel they care about me, the whole me, not just the kinky parts.

Being given tasks and orders early on just tells me we very likely don't fit. Refusing to explain things to me, reasons and why's; and telling me don't question, just obey, and that I'm overthinking tells me I don't matter, my feelings don't matter, my fears don't matter, my needs don't matter, my wants don't matter. I have learned this the hard way and I keep that lesson close when first talking to people. It has served me well.

< Message edited by SassySarijane -- 2/15/2009 7:50:04 AM >

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:44:12 AM   
cuffncollar


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/21/2008
Status: offline 		Personally I need to know the "why" also or I would be seeing red flags.  In your case since you were a Domme, I feel that you are just having inner conflict with the new dynamic of the power exchange.  It's a matter of personal style. 

cuffs

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:50:34 AM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		Does everything have to be a red or yellow flag when asked to do something???Was it life threatening,would cause you to lose your job, or your place in the outside world????
Leave a permanent mark,or threaten your ego perhaps? Caused you to be arrested maybe?Freak out the nabors??? Let me put it this way..If in business, you give your word to do a project..then renig..chances are I'd never do business with you again..  Lucky for us personal lives don't work like that,but it still irks me if you gave your word..then back out of it later.  Sounds like it did him as well...Am I less understanding of a new relationship? Maybe so.......Should he have give you a reason..again..maybe so....but if you had problems with it you should have asked for clarification then...its call communication with your Dom. 
                                       Huntertn

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:56:30 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		No it doesn't, but in the beginnings of a relationship when you barely know each other and all they want is sexual fantasies in writing from you and your unquestioning obedience in whatever they tell you to do and don't care to help build trust, or answer questions or address fears then hell yes it's a red flag! If you (general you) don't care to get to know me as a person then fuck you.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:57:35 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Please understand - I did not back out of it or say no.  I was hoping for a better insight into what he was thinking.  While I can see just doing as told without any questions once a relationship is established I was hoping to learn more about his personality by finding out why this particular action would please him.  

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 7:57:51 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Do you over think things?  Is it reasonable to you that you are asked to do something that makes you uncomfortable, in a new relationship with no explaination except that it would please him?

Personally in a new relationship I explain a lot and rarely do not explain every detail.  I will give some indication as to what I am doing and why, but sometimes will leave all the details out and let them know that I have a plan and that they should go on my proof of who I am and trust me, BUT I am not asking them to do something that makes them uncomfortable.  Trust isn't built on uncomfortable, but comfortable and until a foundation of trust has been built, it is in my opinion wrong to ask someone to do anything they are uncomfortable with.

To then belittle them and excuse what I want simply because I like it and it makes them uncomfortable... and say they over think things... and expect them to accept that and just do as I say... isn't something that would happen.  I would handle the issue of them over thinking maybe, but not with a challenge or expectation to move past a personal issue without some guidance and work on it.  You are expected to do something that isn't something you are able to do if you over think things and trust is not there.  It is like you are being set up for failure.  It isn't simply about doing things to please a dominant... but building a relationship that warrants pleasing them.  I would think your dominant has a few more things to do before you are expected to do things you are uncomfortable with. 

Some play the game... I am dominant, hear me roar... just do as I say and they don't lay the foundation for such.  Inspiring submission is more my style and he hasn't inspired anything but your questions and discomfort and then belittles you rather than assures you.  He negate's your feelings on it with a simple... it pleases me.  That isn't someone easy to trust.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:14:11 AM   
nafakcha


Posts: 81
Joined: 12/28/2008
From: Melbourne, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Huntertn

Does everything have to be a red or yellow flag when asked to do something???Was it life threatening,would cause you to lose your job, or your place in the outside world????
Leave a permanent mark,or threaten your ego perhaps? Caused you to be arrested maybe?Freak out the nabors??? Let me put it this way..If in business, you give your word to do a project..then renig..chances are I'd never do business with you again..  Lucky for us personal lives don't work like that,but it still irks me if you gave your word..then back out of it later.  Sounds like it did him as well...Am I less understanding of a new relationship? Maybe so.......Should he have give you a reason..again..maybe so....but if you had problems with it you should have asked for clarification then...its call communication with your Dom. 
                                       Huntertn


Huntertn - Are you replying to me or the OP?

Its a flag. It doesn't mean run the other way to me - YET. Since the OP didn't give details I don't know whether it would be a yellow or red flag to me. It might not even be a flag. I was giving general advice.We aren't talking about an established relationship, we are talking about one that is just beginning where the levels of trust are still being formed. Also, the OP stated she already spoke to her dominant about this issue. So we are talking about an issue where she has tried to communicate with her dominant. Also, at the bottom of my original post I suggested that she RESPECTFULLY have a conversation about the structure of her relationship with her dominant since obviously not being told why she is doing and uncomfortable task bothers her greatly.

Keiko



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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:21:45 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		I really don't care if this is a red flag or whatever.  If I were considering a Dominant who did not take my feelings into consideration, then the considering would be over.  I'd be looking somewhere else for someone who would gain my trust before just arbitrarily telling me to trust him and do as I was told.   However, this is only what I would personally do, not any advise to chamberqueen. 

We all make choices.  You need to make your own.  Either you do as you are told or you take the chance of losing the Dominant who is considering you.  Only you know how much you trust this person.  Only you know if you can do a humiliating task to please a Dominant you are just getting to know even though you dislike humiliation.  Might his lack of explanation bother you in the future?  These are all things to think about while deciding if this Dominant is the right one for you at this time.  Remember...consideration goes both ways. 

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:24:11 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

I am under consideration by a Master who recently gave me a task.  The task is not too difficult but will make me a little uncomfortable.     His answer was, "because it will please me".   He told me that I overthink things, that I am never to ask WHY, just to do what he says and put my full trust in him.



Translation:

I hold out the carrot of a relationship and you would not believe the shit I can convince women to do.

So, if you enjoy someone who treats you like a toy for his amusement, you found your man.  If you want someone who listens and takes your feelings into consideration, this might not be him.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:25:29 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

is it common for Masters not to give the WHY? 

In regards to personal relationships...NOTHING, absolutly NOTHING is common.
 
Every relationship is different. To try and apply a sense of 'commonality' to them is dooming them to failure from the start.

In regards to your actual question.
Why is it making you uncomfortable?

If you understand the reasoning behind not giving you the reason, yet it's still making you uncomfortable not knowing the why...then maybe there is something more there that needs to be addressed?

Just my thoughts.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:27:05 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Have you met this guy in real life?  I don't do many tasks and things unless I know the person.  I don't have a lot of time to devote to doing stuff for the sole purpose of just doing them.  That being said, yes, sometimes dominants exercise authority purely for their pleasure.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  Sometimes it can broaden your horizons and be fun.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:41:06 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		OP, are you the same person who, very recently, posted a thread regarding your release, by e-mail,from your dom ?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2452567/tm.htm

It would seem so.


< Message edited by cjan -- 2/15/2009 8:44:03 AM >

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 8:57:21 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		In my last relationship he always hated when I asked "why" because he was never ever clear to me and I felt like I was doing things just to give me busy work because he didn't know what else to do with me.

In my current relationship I rarely have to ask why because I almost always know why. We talk a lot, I know his reasons before I ever even start a task but if I'm unclear I have asked him why or other questions and  he's never failed to give me an answer.

Now if I was constantly asking him why I think I would have to start questioning our relationship. I would start to feel our communication was lacking and it would be  a warning sign for me and I'm sure he would eventually get annoyed.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 9:22:55 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		To those who have asked, yes I was recently released from a relationship.  I am not looking to rush into a relationship but wanted to stay active within the BDSM community. 

I think of being "under consideration" as a time to get to know a potential partner better, to discuss likes and dislikes, protocols, determine whether trust and open communication can be built, etc.  I don't mind doing tasks to show that I know how to obey.  I simply wanted to feel out the situation when one aspect of a very detailed task given started to bother me after the conversation was over.  I never said that I would not do the task, simply wanted to know if I might know the reason behind it and whether or not I was allowed to express my fears.  I was allowed to expressed my fears, which I appreciated, but was told that I am never to question "why" a task is given.  I would have expected that over time, once trust had been built, but was surprised by it so soon in a relationship.

I am not implying that he has done anything wrong at all.  I know that each Master has his own style, and that each relationship is unique.  While I know many in the lifestyle I have never before asked anyone whether or not the "why" was something that was explained, though I know some do it naturally.  I was really looking for a bit of a reality check - to see if perhaps I was wrong in expecting that many Masters explain that part of the task.


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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 9:37:04 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		In most cases, I do not give the why to my commands, orders of “requests”. I simply expect them to be followed to the letter or in the best way reasonable (depending on the task). I don’t go into the whys or wherefores for two reasons: Firstly because I amused to being obeyed by staff or as in the past, my security combat team and secondly because mostly there is no reason as the “Why” is either obvious or self explanatory. E.G. I set a task to have my morning “Smoko” coffee and snack ready for me at a specific time and served in a specific location. What further explanation is required?  On other cases, I don’t have time to go into explanations but I will tell the person when I do have time. I will in some cases, give the details of what I want together with an explanation of why I want it done and why it must be done in the manner I state and on the times I require it. This helps ensue that everything is done as required and on time. However as far as my lifestyle goes, it is my choice and my decision to share such information and never the right of the servant to require the reasons why unless there is danger involved or the person is unfamiliar with some aspects and he or she needs additional information so they don’t botch the job up.

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RE: Giving the "Why" - 2/15/2009 9:41:12 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Thank you, IB.  That is exactly the type of answer I was looking for.

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