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A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 6:29:10 PM   
princessKatt


Posts: 20
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline 		So Im dating this submissive guy that Ive developed great feelings for- the relatinship I was looking for. Problem is he has this bad habit of topping from the bottom(occasionally)
He's so used to getting what he wants that sometimes it even makes it way to and intereferes with our lifestlyle behind closed doors and he will try to get specfially what he wants by trying to control our "scene(s)
He can such a brat sometimes that its frustrating. Ive tried everything form different forms of punishments, humiliation, positive reinforcement, orgasm control and teasing him with his "rewards",
Yet he still continues to do so. Its gone down a bit as we dwelve more into this lifestlye and hes becoming more obedient but he still continues to it fairly often
And ok maybe hes not 100% sub but I have really strong feelings for him making it sort of complex and frustrating.
Any suggestions to get him to stop topping from bottom or to cut it down more?
Thanks:)
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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 6:34:25 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Don't ''reward'' or ''punish'' him, he's not a dog, he knows what he's doing.

Just don't play with him when he's being an ass.


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 6:45:00 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Ignoring and/or walking away is an amazing way of getting your point across.  He's trying to control the scene?  Stop playing right then. 

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 6:50:59 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		What Lynnxz said.

If it were me, I'd just get a slaveboy who is very obedient right from the start. I don't have the time or the patience to play games with a manipulative boy. My boy's strict obedience is required.

But since you want to keep this one: the only way I can think of to break him of his bratty behavior is to disengage, for a period of time when he acts up. And you'll need to let him know in no uncertain terms that the disengagement will be permanent, if he continues to show a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable to you.



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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 7:14:52 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		He is not a sub, just a manipulator who is exploiting a shortcut. Give him the Italian boot.

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 7:23:18 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I'm going to assume you've already taken this direction, but I'm going to say it anyway, because the other advice I've read so far seems to be ultimatum types of responses, and sometimes those really aren't necessary...at least at this stage.

My advice is to sit down with him in a non-bdsm context and explain to him exactly what you've explained here. Make it CLEAR that if this continues, that you're not interested in continuing to explore this direction with him any further. As long as you let him continue to get away with it, and even make punishment of this behavior have some type of bdsm element to it, he's going to feel it is some type of "reward" and continue to do it.

Unfortunately, not every submissive comes slave trained, and in some cases that might actually be beneficial because your end result will be a product of YOUR hard work. But at the same time, not every submissive is capable of becoming a slave or a molded submissive exactly as you might desire. Hopefully, it is worth it to him to do as you desire to make it work for both of you. For the record, he's very lucky that he has a dominant who cares enough to want to mold him as she desires. Not every submissive recognizes how great that is.


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 7:36:10 PM   
princessKatt


Posts: 20
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks guys! The reason Im still on here is reading these boards:)

Having a sit down talk about this specifically or simply disengaging for a while are things I havent tried yet. I guess I was looking for stricter solutions or the big picture that I missed the basic stuff which might work.
I have ignored him to an extent, made it clear that he needs to stop the topping through some play and even put him in a cb for a while as punishment . This all works for a short time but then not long after hes back to this bratty behaviour. Its not all the time but its often enough to confuse and irrate me. And yes given my feelings(i want to keep this one, at least for a while:) Ill b patient for now...




< Message edited by princessKatt -- 2/17/2009 7:42:22 PM >

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 7:58:03 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah, using play to "punish" for this kind of thing is a reward, IMHO. Personally, I have no problem with men making requests (though not demands), but I'd be really un-thrilled if he got bratty with me.

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 8:19:55 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		buy a medium dog cage and when he acts up....cage him...for 30 mintues

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 8:43:29 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
I'm going to assume you've already taken this direction, but I'm going to say it anyway, because the other advice I've read so far seems to be ultimatum types of responses, and sometimes those really aren't necessary...at least at this stage.

My advice is to sit down with him in a non-bdsm context and explain to him exactly what you've explained here. Make it CLEAR that if this continues, that you're not interested in continuing to explore this direction with him any further. As long as you let him continue to get away with it, and even make punishment of this behavior have some type of bdsm element to it, he's going to feel it is some type of "reward" and continue to do it.
Since it seems the OP already cares a great deal about the submissive with whom she is involved, I agree with the above sentiment/advice, which takes into consideration he is just a person, trying to find his way in being with you.   How to best do it, will be up to your guidance and consistency in not rewarding what you do not want repeated.     M

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/17/2009 11:19:05 PM   
TranceTara


Posts: 152
Joined: 12/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
I'm going to assume you've already taken this direction, but I'm going to say it anyway, because the other advice I've read so far seems to be ultimatum types of responses, and sometimes those really aren't necessary...at least at this stage.

My advice is to sit down with him in a non-bdsm context and explain to him exactly what you've explained here. Make it CLEAR that if this continues, that you're not interested in continuing to explore this direction with him any further. As long as you let him continue to get away with it, and even make punishment of this behavior have some type of bdsm element to it, he's going to feel it is some type of "reward" and continue to do it.
Since it seems the OP already cares a great deal about the submissive with whom she is involved, I agree with the above sentiment/advice, which takes into consideration he is just a person, trying to find his way in being with you.   How to best do it, will be up to your guidance and consistency in not rewarding what you do not want repeated.     M


I agree with all the above. Speaking from the submissive side, I know how valuable it would be to me to have a heart to heart and to hear exactly what your desires and expectations are. And who knows, maybe by you showing your vulnerability he might discover resistance or a fear he's not aware of or willing to expose to you for fear of disappointing you.

Maybe opening the doors to communication in a non BDSM setting is just what he needs to empower him to be the best submissive he can be if that is his true desire and path. And in doing so you show him how you value him and respect him as a person as well as yourself, but need to have the D/s portion of the relationship fine tuned for your pleasure.

Sláinte
TT

< Message edited by TranceTara -- 2/17/2009 11:20:25 PM >

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 1:38:31 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline
What you are experiencing are 'expectation' teething issues (undesirable behaviours) in your relationship and a person will only become manipulative all the while they see an opening for negotiation. The time to discuss this issue isn't during a session, but on neutral grounds and you must make it clear to your submissive that you will not allow that behaviour to continue. Both need to be clear about the issue and when working to achieve the desired result in your submissive, you must be consistent. If it happens in-scene, stop. Make it clear why you have stopped and that the issue will be discussed at a later time when negative thoughts/emotions aren't going to be a factor.

If his behaviour is bratty, don't reward it by responding. It's a learning curve for both dominant and submissive. My own submissive partner was prone to bratty behaviours initially. Discussion regarding the issue would take place at a later agreed time and we'd communicate our individual issues. It was important that we both worked together in achievement but from different positions. He understands how valued he is and that I respect his opinions. He learned to override his propensity to be impetuous and replace it with patience and self-control - calm. I learned not to react.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 2/18/2009 1:46:17 AM >

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 2:20:25 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Define your relationship---the depth, the breadth, the parameters--what you both seek--agreeing to D/s is only the beginning of the work, not the end.

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 10:37:46 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

He is not a sub, just a manipulator who is exploiting a shortcut. Give him the Italian boot.


Oh rubbish!

He is possibly fighting his own submission and just needs you to reiterate your dominance. Give him a good slap round the head, that normally works

Some relationships go beyond dominance and submission and some Mistresses/Masters don't fall at the first step and give them the Italian boot as has been suggested here.

Personally I love my dominant side to be pushed to its limit because it gives me the chance to be hard


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 10:49:41 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: princessKatt

And yes given my feelings(i want to keep this one, at least for a while:)


My guess?  He probably knows this, and may feel like he has the upperhand, or the ability to get away with immature behavior since he knows you have become attached to him.  I'm not knocking having feelings for him, but if you operate from a place of need or vulnerability, he sounds like the type who might exploit that. 

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 11:00:19 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with talking first. After all, you are both adults with brains and the ability to think and reason. Communication is key.

If it became a longterm, persistant problem. Yeah, I'd give him/her the boot.

I won't dominant someone that will not submit.


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 11:44:57 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I imagine he has strong feelings for you, too (how could he not?), so he should be willing to listen to your problem with his behavior. A talking-to or talking-with could do the trick. You might also try less subtle forms of punishment; things that he really doesn't like. Behavior modification can work wonders.

If all else fails, you know where to reach me!

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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/18/2009 12:58:20 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Disengaging is a very valid technique for behavior modification. They key to remember though is to ignore the behavior not the person. Do not respond to his requests or manipulation that cross the line for you. Just continue on the way you desire. It is not always easy to do this and may make you feel like you are pulling away from the relationship, but actually you are just controlling it. Only time and consistency can really change behavior


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/19/2009 12:57:07 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Everyone seems to be suggesting that you talk to him.

I'm going to suggest something else.

Look at yourself.

What do you want? Honestly?

If you didn't want this behavior would you honestly have continued in this dynamic long enough to develop strong feelings for him?

Do you really want a Ds dynamic with him or just kinky sex?

Do you have a firm grasp of what it is you think you should be in charge of as the dom and what he needs to do as a sub? If not, how could you possibly have told him this from the start? Once certain patterns of behavior are begun and repeated they will be very difficult to break.

This is just a guess, but I'm guessing what you really want is just a relationship with him as a person and for some reason you think you need to have it be along Ds lines and thus you are both struggling to make something work that may not be what is appropriate or best for the two of you. This isn't about Ds or BDSM or anything to do with us or with the way we do things.

This is about you and him. PERIOD.

Start with you and figure out what you really want. He needs to do the same thing. When you both have a better idea of that, then get together and see if you can meet most of each others needs and desires. You may discover a way to do BDSM together or you may discover that you don't need it to be a happy and healthy couple.


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RE: A sub who tops from the bottom - 2/19/2009 4:59:12 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Try sending him home next time he tries it, and ignore him for a few days. There is nothing better for concentrating the mind, than the idea you cant be with the one you want. Once he knows you mean what you say, his attitude will change.

I was ignored by a Mistress I knew for a week, no contact at all. What really hurt me was when she later said I had punished her, by making her ignore me for a week. That really hit home.

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