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RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 11:46:59 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I hope to god I never have a set list of "must haves" when I am open to someone new.

*warning baaaaad joke*

There are a few must haves on MY list...
must have a pulse.
must be the same species as me
must be able to live without heroic medical intervention
must not eat the last of the french pastries that i went out in the snow on foot to buy as a treat.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 21

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 11:58:32 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Oh, I think they should eat them in front of you and then..........make you go get more. For them.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 22

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 12:14:59 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I see notrhing wrong with having expectations. Those expectations are based on past experiences, whether good or bad and personally, I don't see the sense of walking into another relationship in which ...as an example...my emotional needs are not met because my partner sees no need to meet them. I think the key here though is a realistic approach...much as the submissive on here who noted that she'd walked into a marriage of 19 years and threw much of her expectations away in the first year. That is something you have to be able to do...reappraise your expectations and whether or not they arave e realistic and do-able and if they even need to be in context with other expectations that ARE being met.

While I have learned a lot from what is said here in this forum and other forums I have belonged to in the past and from those people I know personally, I havc taken what I have learned and either applied it directly to my situation OR have ngmodified it to fit my situation. When something worked, great...when it did not, I stepped back and tried to figure out if it was me, her, us or whatever we were trying. I was taught by great professors and great doctors...in the end though, I had to be the one to apply what I was taught, whether it was while testing for my license or while treating patients.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 23

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 12:39:36 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I'm really beginning to question whether or not being and involved and absorbed in a world of pre-set and pre-canned expectations and standards is all that healthy for one's relationship mentality.

It's your call, really. Someone with a vast amount of experience is worth a listen, regardless of whether or not they claim there is only one path. There's no obligation to take on board someone else's take on life; there's always the option to take the good (experience) and swerve that which you consider to be the bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Some will, of course, claim being above the influence, but to say that external influence doesn't have some degree of effect on us is as silly as saying magazines, movies, and television hasn't molded our own standards of physical attraction and beauty.

I don't agree with this. An understanding of group behaviour and the nature of advertising is useful when forming your own ethics and standards, and disregarding the group norm. The mere fact that we're all human beings, renders the individual destined to share common ground with others, but I wouldn't say that the wholesale adoption of others' ideas or being duped by the propaganda that is advertising, is a component of that common ground. As part of my degree, I took a module in Film & TV history: the notion that all films are politically biased was an interesting one, and when we studied what are perceived to be some of the most innocuous of films, it was an eye-opener.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Do the essays "The Falconer" and "Traits of a Good Dominant" really depict and exemplify real people or merely ideals? When has anyone ever met anyone who exemplified all the qualities typically attached to the mystical "dominant" in all their actions and behavior?

'Haven't read them, but assuming they're painting a picture of superman, then I'd suggest that the answer is no. We all have our strengths, weaknesses and human frailty; evolution has seen to this because it has rendered the human species free to choose, and being free to choose can most certainly lead to the wrong choice (suggesting frailty, weakness etc).

You/I/anyone can, however, improve ourselves as human beings and we do as a matter of course - experience is the best teacher and hard lessons are learned along the way. Step into an office environment and you will soon learn that a calm disposition will ensure that people listen to you; that is learned and it is a lesson that any young lad seriously attempting to build a career for himself, will never forget.

In sum, yeah, we're humans not gods, but some humans have more to offer than others. Perhaps the authors of the books are inviting you to be the best that you can be within the realms of earthly wisdom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I think initially one of the things that really hampered my dating and let to disgruntlement and frustration was that I had a precanned idea of what exactly a submissive/slave should be in my own mind and was disapointed as the people I met constantly fell short of that expectation. It's something I slowly had to work my way from as I began to remember that I was dating "real people" and what existed in my own head wasn't a "real person".

Now that is a lesson that I learned the hard way. Life is far less troublesome when you accept others' standards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

When I think about it, I imagine that two people who were self aware of their own desires, but had absolutely no previous influence or expectation from an external source about how there relationship "should be" would be far better off than someone who had spent time educating themselves on the Internet or through the community.

What about balance? Taking on board the experiences of others and reshaping them in accordance with your own desires.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 24

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 12:54:07 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

Mad

As I was reading your post I was thinking "finally a person that gets it" Great post. Online is ONLY a reference tool however lots of folks use it as source material.

I have been into bdsm long before the internet and have discovered the online information by experts and others is mostly BS. In much the same way it is in life, everyone has a opnion and most of them are wrong.

If you enter a bdsm relationship like you would any other by trying different things keeping the ones you like and discarding the others it tends to work out. Some ppl think that because it's bdsm the relationship is somehow fundamentally different and that just aint so. The relationship is the same the "content may vary"

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 2/18/2009 1:05:19 PM >

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Post #: 25

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 1:09:09 PM

NYLass

Posts: 409
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

I have been into bdsm long before the internet and have discovered the online information by experts and others is mostly BS. In much the same way it is in life, everyone has a opnion and most of them are wrong.

If you enter a bdsm relationship like you would any other by trying different things keeping the ones you like and discarding the others it tends to work out. Some ppl think that because it's bdsm the relationship is somehow fundamentally different and that just aint so. The relationship is the same the "content may vary"

BadOne

Perfectly said. Isn't it amazing how we could have used whips & floggers and restraints and suspensions without the vast knowledge of the all knowing mentors trained in the secret European houses. How did we ever survive? What did we do before we learned all the acronyms, traffic signals and safe words? Oh I remember. We talked. Yeah, communication worked before the interwebby thing. Communicating works better than "teh tw00 dominates" in cyberspace.

Damn I sound old. Now someone help me down from this soapbox.

And get those damn kids off my lawn...

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 26

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 1:19:43 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I've recently been in hiatus from anything D/S or BDSM as of late with school and work taking up the sole focus in my life. The break and detachment from any influence of the online community has given me a bit more of an objective perspective of it as a whole.

In this objective perspective, one of things that I have began to notice as a whole is that the D/S community spends a large portion of it's time and bandwith telling people what exactly a D/S relationship should be. It's hard to cross any "informative website" without finding a portion of essays devoted towards detailing what exactly a "real dominant" is, a "real submissive" is, and what a "healthy" or "good" D/S relationship should be. Message boards are filled with posters devoting quite a bit of time arguing about what is or is not D/S, who is real and fake, and what qualifies one as a dominant.

I'm really beginning to question whether or not being and involved and absorbed in a world of pre-set and pre-canned expectations and standards is all that healthy for one's relationship mentality. Some will, of course, claim being above the influence, but to say that external influence doesn't have some degree of effect on us is as silly as saying magazines, movies, and television hasn't molded our own standards of physical attraction and beauty.

Do the essays "The Falconer" and "Traits of a Good Dominant" really depict and exemplify real people or merely ideals? When has anyone ever met anyone who exemplified all the qualities typically attached to the mystical "dominant" in all their actions and behavior?

I think initially one of the things that really hampered my dating and let to disgruntlement and frustration was that I had a precanned idea of what exactly a submissive/slave should be in my own mind and was disapointed as the people I met constantly fell short of that expectation. It's something I slowly had to work my way from as I began to remember that I was dating "real people" and what existed in my own head wasn't a "real person".

When I think about it, I imagine that two people who were self aware of their own desires, but had absolutely no previous influence or expectation from an external source about how there relationship "should be" would be far better off than someone who had spent time educating themselves on the Internet or through the community. There would be no "failure", no "right" or "wrong" way of doing things, no "your not really a dominant", no "your not really a submissive", and no "topping from the bottom". The only possible way the relationship could fail is if both people didn't enjoy each other as opposed to failing to meet some pre-canned expectation that is completely abstract from who both people simply are.

There really isn't a question in all of this. I would appreciate any feedback, opinions, or thoughts that spawn from reading this.

I never read a book on how to do BDSM. That would be ridiculous: like reading a book on how to walk. Or reading a book on how to have a baby.
I got tied up and took it up the arse long before I knew it was submission and certaily long before the internet.
Old Guard and Leathermen belonged to a basically homosexual community a long way away. And what's more I have rarely done anything on my life which was, is, or will be conformist. In fact my most interesting and enduring relationships have been an expression of individuality and an art rather than a science. And the best dominants I have known have understood how to contain this expression.
I am bemused by the conformity on collarme and the behaviorist school. Even more bemused by the fashionistas. I'm happy though that the boundaries are continually being pished. But the world is still exceptionally repressed in terms of what is permisable to print and what is permisable to write.
Arse is still a fourletter word.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 2/18/2009 1:24:08 PM >

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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 27

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 1:40:23 PM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

I pretty much agree with the OP. Where I also get frustrated is reading threads from young sub/slave-types who have a pre-conceived notion of what a "Master" is. That, because he's online and talking a good talk, he MUST be strong, powerful, honorable to a fault, standing on the hilltop in boots and leather pants with his long black cape and puffy shirt blowing in the wind.

As far as that goes, even in real life....ooooh, he's Master Fantasmagorical, the great and powerful! If only I could be his, then my life would be complete!

They seem to have lost sight of the fact that they're still men, still humans who put their pants on from the bottom up. They seem to think that there is this society of super-humans who they can fall to the ground in front of and they'll automatically be carried away to the castle and protected forever, simply because they're "a Master". And because they have given them their complete trust and adoration, the "Masters" would NEVER let them down.

Just would like to see more folks get back into reality, and stop living a fantasy. Or, keep fantasy and reality clearly defined and in their places.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 28

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 2:32:41 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

I think i am starting to have a bit of a crush on you LaT. Be careful or I may suddenly throw myself to my knees in front of you and beg that you use me (with this toy and that toy and while wearing those shoes with that top and...)

*wink*

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 29

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 2:44:14 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Sorry Ma'am. I just looked away for a minute and the little buggers ran for it and decided to play cops, robbers, and tie the blonde big boobed boy to the tree.

Next time i will just chain the little freaks together and put them in a cage. Then we can all stand around with long poking sticks and spout text message speak at them.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to NYLass)

Post #: 30

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 2:54:59 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

I've heard enough people say exactly the same thing about a *husband* or *boyfriend*. I wonder sometimes if people really just want something from Argos. Type in the product number and moments later , there it is , your shiny new dom/husband/boyfriend. Read the TEENY writing on the back of the packet that spells out what your product should do and then read the even TEENIER bit at the VERY bottom that says ...... * no guarantee*.

agirl

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 31

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 3:08:26 PM

wordstoponder

Posts: 56
Joined: 2/3/2008
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Very interesting, MadRabbit.

My Master would agree with You. He doesn't spend much time browsing the 'Net for BDSM websites or other online nonsense that I sometimes get caught up in. He understands that there are different ways to express love, and that each individual is unique, thus every relationship is different. There are many times when I measure myself against unrealistic expectations or the dream-like ideal, and Master has to bring me back down to earth. Of course I strive to be the best submissive that I can be, but Master has made me realize that achieving perfection is impossible.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 32

RE: A Community of Ridiculous Expectations - 2/18/2009 3:13:00 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

When I think about it, I imagine that two people who were self aware of their own desires, but had absolutely no previous influence or expectation from an external source about how there relationship "should be" would be far better off than someone who had spent time educating themselves on the Internet or through the community.

MR,
Don't put any qualifiers to the section I highlighted and theres you path to a successful relationship. It's not exclusive or special to D/s.

There maybe some 'skills' or specific activities that your would be served by observing, reading, or doing research; but no absolutes should be assimilated as 'dogma' for your relationship based solely on what you find. Even if 'everyone else is doing it'; there is no requirement that you and your partner do.

There are no bad references or experiences; worst case, you learn what not to do, or what not to do...again! It requires the highlighted baseline of self-knowledge and is supported by confidence. Ability and skill comes into play but it isn't as important as trying and doing. Even then sometimes it doesn't translate well in a scene or session with your partner. For instance, in a 'demo' setting, I can do the two handed 'Florentine Flog' with the best of them, clock and counter-clockwise, over and under-handed, with a flourishing 'car wash' finish - TA DA! However, in any 'scene' with my beth, that 'skill' is reduced to a remedial level. I guess the blood necessary for that skill is being used someplace other than the brain during those times.

Experience gains you ability and skill, but it should be focused upon the ability and skill you have to 'read' yourself and your partner. My flogging skill and abilities have little to do with how beth or I feel emotionally or physically while we 'dance' together. I assure you that neither of us is thinking if we are living up to the communities expectations of us. Ideally you have a partner who dances to the same tune in step with you and not outside sources professing a 'one-true-way' or claiming to represent the 'real' community.

One thing I'm sure of - I don't fit in the 'real community'. I've been told to my face I don't take the 'lifestyle' seriously. It would bother me if it bothered me.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 33

RE: A Community of Ridiculous Expectations - 2/18/2009 3:45:47 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

It would bother me if it bothered me.

It would bother me if it bothered you---that would be inconsistent---and rule #543, paragraph 12, line 3 says: inconsistency is un-dom-like!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 34

RE: A Community of Ridiculous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:14:43 PM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

Not surprisingly, wiiwd attracts a lot of very anal people, like one guy who posted a list of something like 400 rules in here one time, it must have taken him weeks and he was mocked accordingly - second, it also attracts a lot of exhibitionists, who love to talk about everything they do (me) - now neither of these things is really a bad thing, but combine it with a control freak personality type and you get rules - no different really than Catholics who insist on the missionary position, or Quiverfulls who insist that every act of sex include the possibility of impregnation: i.e., these are exactly the same type of people, except that the ones involved in BDSM aren't trying to shove it down my throat or make it a constitutional amendment.

If that's what get's their propeller spinning, more power to 'em, and I'm happy it works for them - just as some people like to make rules, there are other people that like to follow them.

I'm more of a seat-of-the-pants kinda guy myself, I believe that very strict discipline is necessary because it actually gives you more time to fuck off but you can still snap when you have to, just my personal take on the subject, I do like to fuck off but I also have responsibilities.

I don't have to read it if I don't want to, and I can take it with a grain of salt when I do - but, in fact, sometimes you do learn something, get some inspiration, discover something you've never heard articulated before, or things you never thought about, etc., i.e, you can cherry pick, it ain't a religion, it's just a thang.

We are many, if not all of of us, explorers, sexual psychonauts navigating blindly in the darkness of the subconscious, and it's always interesting to hear the reports of other explorers, they are in a sense, maps; everybody's map may be a little bit different, but sometimes hearing the experiences of others is not only educational, it's also comforting to know that others wrestle with the same questions and conflicts you do, even if they resolve them a bit differently than you might.

And if nothing else, it reiterates the perspective: different strokes for different folks.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 2/18/2009 4:15:53 PM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 35

RE: A Community of Ridiculous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:24:59 PM

subangi

Posts: 544
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline

Before getting on the internet, i didnt know this lifestyle existed. Being brought up in the country, with strict old world parents and later the convent, I was unaware of many things. When online, I was introduced to this, and it was mindblowing...I had always thought myself having very demented desires,but then discovered that my personality and cravings could be shared with like minded people. I did read and study too much, and had unrealistic expectations initially, but after trial and tribulation, I've come to realize that this isnt textbook, and that this is as individual as any type of relationship.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 36

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:26:08 PM

SurrenderForMe

Posts: 229
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

LOL, yup, that's true.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 37

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:29:56 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

ooh if you want, i think i have the link still for the 100 or 128 (depending) rules for a slave. and in all fairness that list was written as a list for ONE particular m/s relationship and was partially wank material, by their own admission on the original website (that i saw at at least).

But they are a HOOT. We (some friends and I re-did it for doms once. hehhhehhee *snort*) good times!

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 38

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:46:01 PM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

Well he did spell out what his expectations were pretty exhaustively, lol.

Some of them were kinda hot too, there were just so damned many.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 39

RE: A Community of Ridicoulous Expectations - 2/18/2009 4:57:44 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

If i have to refer to a manual to get things done it had better be something REALLY important like disarming a bomb.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 40

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