~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 10:38:12 AM)

I recently had a wonderful conversation with an old friend. We discussed many things but one of the things that kept coming up was His elaborate list of Rules.

He has 40 of them. Each of which he has a purpose for, each of which he can recite when requested, and each of which he expects his slave to do the same
.
Upon Discussion he asked me what I thought about his list of rules and I told him it doesn’t matter what I think they are his rules and after a few more nudges he finally got me to spill the beans. I said "Most of your Rules are pointless as she is able to break them without you knowing, what is the point of a rule if it can be broke without consequence?"

This started a long debate on the purpose of Rules. I believe they have function either to guarantee an action is not carried out or that if it is it can be stopped due to a pre-agreed arrangement in which if a rule is to be broken it can be corrected swiftly and with purpose.

My Friend had rules on how the girl in to shower and in what order she shaved the parts that are generally considered better without hair.

I asked him if they shower together and he said "No" then how do you know she is shaving them in the order you request. Very Proudly he said "Because she is my girl and I trust she wants to please me!" to which I said "Horse Shit, if you trusted her you would have no need for silly rules you would just tell her what you prefer and she would do it that way." This part of the conversation threw him for a loop and that was when he asked me if I had rules.

I do. I have 4 and 2 & 3 are pretty much the same thing and 4 isn’t really a rule as much as it is a Training Device.
  1. Never Argue in Public – Any Difference of opinion you may have with my decisions or actions can wait until we are home no one needs to be involved in these matters and if absolutely necessary you can request some time in private if the matter is pressing.
  2. Do not walk away from me in the middle of an argument should one occur – Although you may be going to cool down I am getting more worked up and so all arguments or differences of opinion will be continues until agreed upon or solved.
  3. If you walk out the front door and say you are leaving you will find your things packed to go – there are two choices I cannot make for you and that is the choice to Obey or the choice to Leave if you choose not to do one then you have chosen to do the other. Saying you are leaving is a deal breaker.
  4. You are never to wear panties – If you look over another thread you will see there is a reason for this and I usually tell them so, truth be told I could care less if they wear underwear but the training process is a wonderful thing by controlling such a small part of a persons routine it becomes easier for that person to voluntarily give up larger parts. In Example: If I control her Panties, having control over how she goes about her daily activities becomes easier to relinquish.


That’s it. That’s all there is. So then he asks about all the other things like the rules about talking to other Dominants or how the house is to be cleaned and how often and in what order. And to this I started discussing conditions. Conditions are easier than rules because they aren’t Doom and Gloom like Rules are. Conditions can be added and subtracted as needed. There are lots of conditions and when a condition is ignored it gets discussed, but there isn’t an aire of failure about the whole process just a mentioning of how it went and how it needs to go next time.

My Friend still likes his rules, but I was curious as to how Collar Me Doms and subs too for that matter felt about the rule process.
Steel



iheartperverts -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:11:22 AM)

Maybe I am just too much of a 'do-me' submissive to get this...

Some people don't see rules as doom and gloom.  Some people find it comforting that their master is so far up their business that he dictates how they shave.  Some people perceive these rules as a form of attention.  I do a lot of things because they are someone's personal preference.  I don't curse around my mom, personal preference.  I don't click my fingernails around my friends because it gets on their nerves, personal preference. 

If I follow your rules, it's because you have authority.  If I follow your personal preference, it is because I'm feeling sweet and I like you.

For some it must be hard to imagine...this form of control can be relaxing and even intimate.  Like you have had a hard day filled with things you can't control and you get to come home and tell me how to sit, stand, dress, shave, and speak.  Because unlike the other things in your life, I'm firmly under your control.

Make sense?



OmegaG -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:12:12 AM)

A couple once sent me a list of 100 rules-- I think I read 20 before I quit.

For every rule (save #1 and #3 on your list for me) there are exceptions which will inevitable throw a monkey wrench into the whole process.

as an aside-- the reason why I don't agree with #2 is because if I don't walk away sometimes and figure out what I am mad about (which generally is not what is being argued) I will slip right into #3 but I'll pack my own damned bags and not look back.



sojourner9 -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:24:57 AM)

I really only have three "always applies" rules.  Although they are all 3 related.  Everything else is dependent on the situation.

1) Never lie to me.  Ever.  About anything.
2) If you have any fear/uncertainty/doubt/questions - tell/ask me!    Doesn't guarantee I'll answer, but I always want to know.
3) If you can't / don't / won't complete an assignment / task - tell me!   Real life happens, emergencies happen, you may try and fail.  Don't make excuses, don't try to hide it.




oceanwynds -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:25:57 AM)

i like simplicity. i have rules, no drinking, no cussing and make him proud, through things i need to do on a daily bases. Even those things are simple and realistic.



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:28:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: iheartperverts

Maybe I am just too much of a 'do-me' submissive to get this...

For some it must be hard to imagine...this form of control can be relaxing and even intimate. Like you have had a hard day filled with things you can't control and you get to come home and tell me how to sit, stand, dress, shave, and speak. Because unlike the other things in your life, I'm firmly under your control.


I do not think that liking Rules makes you a "Do-Me" anything, however I again point out that the Purpose of a RULE is to make it have consequence and severity. If I have no idea if you have broken a rule how can you find stability in those rules. Rules are supposed to keep you Safe or to maintain the sanctity of a concept.

I think we are going tit for tat on this issue, mind you there are many things that I express how I want and like donw but they are not rules they are conditions. Conditions of a happy home are that the home is clean and things are where I like them, however where I like things can change, Rules do not.

I think that having a bunch of conditions and calling them rules is harmless but the psychological concept of a Rule when it is broken there should be a consequence if I find out you shaved your armpits after you shaved your pussy I doubt I will punish you for this, mostly because I won’t know in the first place, and also because in the great matter of things Micromanaging my submissive is not on my list of kinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

For every rule (save #1 and #3 on your list for me) there are exceptions which will inevitable throw a monkey wrench into the whole process.

as an aside-- the reason why I don't agree with #2 is because if I don't walk away sometimes and figure out what I am mad about (which generally is not what is being argued) I will slip right into #3 but I'll pack my own damned bags and not look back.


I can respect the way you feel about #2 andi doesn’t care for it as well, but what you may not be seeing is that this rule does not mean I won’t send her to the bedroom to write in her journal or to bed until the following morning. It just means that she doesn’t get to dictate how it happens, I understand the need for time to process but that is what andi knows she needs to ask for and when she asks she nearly always gets it I can think of two situations in which she didn’t but that was because she wanted to avoid the issue and figured if she asked for time to calm down I wouldn’t press the issue. That was a Long Night but also one of the reasons that I believe we are still together today. That night was an Obey or Leave night and I really didn’t know which she was going to choose.

Steel



OmegaG -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 11:36:48 AM)

So long as there is a way to come to an agreement about the difference between disagreement styles then I wouldn't argue with that rule.

But I have had to say to people that I am in a relationship with that if they wanted me to sit and "talk" at that moment they would hear what I was feeling not what I was thinking and to give me time they would get to hear thoughts instead, if they couldn't give me the time then they could consider it the segue to the end of the relationship as my personal rules are:

1: no arguing in public
2. no arguing when mad
3. leaving is not a dramatic appeal for attention, it is leaving and should be treated as such.
4. No visible panty lines (just had to throw it in)[:D]



agirl -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 12:14:08 PM)

People love 'em it seems. The people that love'em are well matched with people that also love'em....lol

I have rules.....but none are set in stone....they change according to how life's going.

Your rules 1 to 3, for instance would seem like common sense behaviour toward someone you have any vestige of respect for...to ME. I'd be a bit insulted if it was presented to me as a rule, actually.

Rules have always been, without exception, for MY benefit in areas where I have bugger-all self control.. Everything else comes under *stuff that isn't a good idea to do*.

I'd be a rotten bet for someone that has rules like your friend...I'd break them willy nilly because they are pointless.

agirl










feydeplume -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 12:25:56 PM)

My rules are pretty simple too:

  1. Obey: ask for clarification, reasons, justification, anything you want, but do so as you obey.
  2. Bring it to me: if you are worried, scared, bothered, angry, freaked out whatever, bring it to me as soon as you can.
  3. Do not argue in public or private. Debate, wonder, questions, etc. but do not argue. Talk it through like an adult, don't have a temper tantrum.
  4. Never lie: (his words here) You suck at it and it is painful to watch. You are much prettier when you just tell the truth and we we deal with it.
  5. Think it through. Does it help us, does it make us better, does it make life better, does it make the world better.
  6. We are in this together, all of this. Every single part of this. The pain, pleasure, boredom, silliness, and commercial breaks. 
Everything is actually covered under those rules. There are conditions and guidelines and tasks and all sorts of sexy, fun bits. But these are what my/our rules boil down to.

And yanno what? they have worked for 15 years now.



OmegaG -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 12:30:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

My rules are pretty simple too:
  1. Never lie: (his words here) You suck at it and it is painful to watch. You are much prettier when you just tell the truth and we we deal with it



You can count me in on his fan club-- I love his turn of phrases.



Honsoku -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 12:32:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I asked him if they shower together and he said "No" then how do you know she is shaving them in the order you request. Very Proudly he said "Because she is my girl and I trust she wants to please me!" to which I said "Horse Shit, if you trusted her you would have no need for silly rules you would just tell her what you prefer and she would do it that way." This part of the conversation threw him for a loop and that was when he asked me if I had rules.


quote:

I think that having a bunch of conditions and calling them rules is harmless but the psychological concept of a Rule when it is broken there should be a consequence


I think the difference is academic. All there has to be is an implied penalty for being caught in violation of the rule. This is much the same way the law operates. There isn't a policeman looking over your shoulder every step of the way, yet there are still laws (rules of society). If caught breaking one of these "rules" you can expect there to be consequences. Your "rules" are more like class A felonies while the example of his that you gave is more of a misdemeanor. "Consequence" does not have to mean punishment.

Personally, I am not big on rules or conditions. There is just too much variability in life that a rule could be simply stated that would cover all probable issues. It would end up being in the nigh incomprehensible legalese that we know and love.



SummerWind -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 1:29:28 PM)

To me, rules suck.  I need the pure, unfiltered organic experience of the person.  However, at the foundation of our relationship is the simple premise:  We both prefer things my way. 



NorthernGent -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 1:37:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

My Friend still likes his rules, but I was curious as to how Collar Me Doms and subs too for that matter felt about the rule process.
Steel



Rules are important as a mechanism for marking your territory and instilling the sort of behaviour you expect e.g. don't sleep on the right hand side of the bed because that's my place and carry yourself well in public (be courteous at all times).



Aileen1968 -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 3:01:01 PM)

I have it easy. One rule. I do what he wants me to do.

edited to laugh...Hahaha. I just noticed that he answered. Good thing our answers matched.



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 3:02:49 PM)

Yeah, and we all know what that is.   ::::-)

See and I find that process to be the best policy, in the long run the 4 rules I stated are just things that can be reminded when tempers flare, and so far it had worked every time.

Steel



CalifChick -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 3:10:12 PM)

Rules are pointless if your policy is "obey or leave" for the rules, but not for things you tell her to do that she doesn't do.

Cali



BitaTruble -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 4:37:48 PM)

FR If Himself wants to put 100 rules on me, I'll do my best to obey them .. and it won't matter whether or not he 'knows' if I've broken one.. 'I' will know and I will be 'less' than I am capable of being. That's a pretty serious consequence to me. Telling someone else they are silly for running their relationship they way they choose is.. silly. I won't go into what I think about your rule #2 because, in the end, it won't make a rats ass bit of difference to anyone, including me.



catize -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 4:55:01 PM)

quote:

  and it won't matter whether or not he 'knows' if I've broken one.. 'I' will know and I will be 'less' than I am capable of being.


 
DITTO! 
I don’t live with R. or S.  But the few rules given to me are obeyed.  Why say “I submit” if it only covers times when they are looking? 



DesFIP -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 7:06:22 PM)

For the op, the purpose of a rule is to have consequences and severity.

Here it is entirely different. A rule here can be to assure his comfort or mine. If he has a really gritty day ahead, he is likely to pick highly impractical outfits for me, or just such underwear. It relaxes him during  a tough day to know I'm wearing the see through black panties with roses and matching bra. It's a mental health break if you will. Equally if I'm under a lot of stress he may pick clothes for me for no reason but that he knows I will feel more connected to him and therefore more relaxed.

BTW the op's rules wouldn't work for me. He needs to keep thrashing things out without a break until resolution is reached. I need to table discussion and sleep on it wrapped in his arms to be able to think straight. Someone who insisted I keep arguing my point is someone I would wind up packing my bags on and without regrets except for having wasted that much time on him. The no panties rule? Before menopause that would have been a no way. I wasn't regular enough to know when blood would suddenly be running down my legs, ruining the furniture and forcing me to run out of public places.



VampiresLair -> RE: ~~Rules, Rules, Rules~~ (2/19/2009 7:11:21 PM)

Fox's rules are not necessarily because I worry about what he does, as much as to give him an out to get out of potentially bad situations before they happen. Before he has a conversation off the CM interface, whomever he is talking to has to talk to me. This is dual purpose. A) They know I am not a figment of Fox's imagination. B) It weeds out those who dont just want to chat.

The only other rule he has is to wash the hair out of the tub after he shaves.

Anything else I trust him to be able to figure things out himself.

DV



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