RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (Full Version)

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MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:45:51 PM)

Have you ever heard of Google?  Generally when someone discusses something I am not educated about, I look it up myself if I am really interested enough to discuss it with them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1
But I do personally know a lot of conservatives who are tired of having the liberal PC susie-has-two-mommys gay agenda being shoved down their and their childrens' throats.


Concrete example, please?



kittinSol -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:47:53 PM)

No, I was asking you personally, since you said that you personally knew conservatives annoyed with the liberal gay agenda being rammed down their throat. But I understand that you don't really have examples. It's okay: it's what I was expecting.

Edited for clarity.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:49:10 PM)

quote:

Something that is blatently obvious about your statement that I don't believe anyone has noticed. That Ds isn't about being gay. Neither does it have to do with porn. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with BDSM. In fact, BDSM doesn't have to have anything to do with porn or gay sex either. Your question pretty much sounds as silly as asking why christians participate in DD or Ds.

Don't confuse and mix up the whole lot and you can pretty much get why conservative supporters are and can be happily involved in Ds relationships. It could be you simply need to reformat your question?


I have no desire to change my question. The fact is that the conservative financial agenda is tied in with the conservative social agenda and we are not part of it. I will instead, since you want to so distance yourself from other alternative sexualities, quote the words of Martin Niemoller, a German pastor and theologian about the results of such thinking.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist; And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist; And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew; And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."or, to use the words of Ben Franklin, "I we do not hang together we most assuredly hang separately" 






MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:54:58 PM)

So you want a personal list of my family, friends, and associates?  Sorry, I don't think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No, I was asking you personally, since you said that you personally knew conservatives annoyed with the liberal gay agenda being rammed down their throat. But I understand that you don't really have examples. It's okay: it's what I was expecting.

Edited for clarity.



MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:57:21 PM)

Why does tolerance and diversity only go so far as the minority pushing their view?
Why don't we have white history month?
Why are we allowed Heather has two mommys, but no prayer in school?
My daughters know the life story of Rosa Parks, but probably know nothing at all about Susan B. Anthony. *yes, I just asked and had it confirmed*
Why is a minorrah an acceptable display in government buildings, but a nativity scene or even a christmas tree is not?



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:57:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I have to ask a question that has long been bothering me. How can anyone who is in the d/s world to the point of being on this board support the conservative agenda. Financial policy aside, it seems these people are dedicated to our eradication. Does anyone think that a group vocally against reproductive rights, gay rights, free speech rights in the matter of pornography are going to at all support the rights of "whip swinging perverts" like us?

One of the most vocal and self proclaimed neo-cons on this board has a picture of herself in a corset with her breasts bared. The ads that support this site link to d/s pornography sites. Do you have any thought that the party that holds up "traditional American values" and align with the christian right wing would hesitate to shut it down if they could?

Do you think that the conservatives have any interest in allowing d/s organizations like TES or clubs like Paddles to exist? Or is it more likely that their desire is to take down these perceived blights on society and marginalize them into extinction?

Is it just that being into d/s is easier to hide than being gay that makes it possible for you to support an organization that is unmistakably dedicated to our extinction? Or is it just a matter of putting the pocketbook before all else?

In short, just as I would ask a black man how he could support the KKK or a Jew how he could contribute to the Nazi party, I ask again, how can anyone who identifies themselves as part of the d/s community support the conservative social agenda?




I'll tell you how, it's because the title of conservative has been hijacked by a group that are anything but conservative.

They just use the title, but it doesn't matter most politicians that say they are conservative aren't conservative at all.

Bush was not a conservative in the least, he simply wasn't.
A conservative believes resisting change in philosophy, and generally adhering tightly to the original interpretations of things. As in a "real" conservative, believes in less government, not more, this is not Bush, or the modern republicans for the most part. A "real" conservative believes in individual freedom as the pre-eminent issue, and all that that infers.

What you call "conservative" is known as Neo-Conservative, as in it is not conservative at all. Most republicans are Neo-Cons. As they don't hold in reverence anything, as unbreachable. There whole philosophy is in the here and now, and is surrounded by the concept of the state and influence being the most important. The difference is a real "conservative" doesn't hold the state as being as important as the individual. The priorities between the to are a 180 degrees different.

For Example a Neo-Con will sacrifice freedom in order to preserve the Nation "idea", they believe this is acceptable as they view things in the order Nation first priority then indiviudal rights.
A Conservative, would say if we sacrifice our freedom then there is no Nation to protect, as a we are nothing more than a group of people that live under a set of ideas, and the government is a reflection of those ideas. If you sacrifice the ideas then everything else is hollow.

However, the only difference in my mind between modern day "liberals" again, another term that has been hijacked, is that while Neo-Cons see things in terms of the Nation and outward projection of power. The modern day liberals view everything through the lens of grioups, they always speak of groups, corporations, societal obligations, etc... Rarely a mention of the individual in the thought process.

So, in the modern world you have things working like this, you have Neo-Cons, being the least concerned with the indiviudal, then you have the modern Liberals, who view the world through the lens of groups, then you have the Classic Conservatives, that view everything from the perspective of the individual.

That's the way I see it. I'd say I'm a Conservative in the libertarian sense of the word. I dislike both Neo-con thought, and modern liberal thought equally, and that is the false choice presented in the last election. McCain (Neo-Con), and Obama (modern day Liberal).

So, I truly am fucked in the modern political arena, as I hate most repubs and democrats equally, and see them as working towards the same goal for different reasons. And that goal is expansion of government power and influence over the individual.

I personally think more people are actually classic conservative than realize it.







Lorr47 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:58:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I would say Clinton was closer to rapist than Bush.
Isn't using your office to pressure others into having sex akin to rape?
And isn't that what he did when he was governor of Arkansas?

Edited to add: Clinton was a much better and more accomplished liar than Bush could ever dream of being.


You mean to say that you actually believe those women without water boarding them first? 



MarsBonfire -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 7:59:17 PM)

Your husband AND your sub on one insurance? Well, why couldn't you? If you claim them as a dependant, and you are willing to pay the extra permium, I don't see why you shouldn't. Perhaps, in another 20 years of fighting "the way things have always been" we'll all be able to have that option. But sitting on your ass and hiding in the closet ain't gonna change things, EVER.

Ah, well since you have a personal reason to discriminate against ALL gays, just from your narrow experience, I guess I'll tell you that I have my personal reasons why I thing allowing gays to keep their families is a good thing, and it's too personal to share. Isn't THAT special? :)

So... it's okay for striaghts to ram their sexuality down the throats of gay kids, but the straight kids will somehow all suddenly be "flipped" to being gay just by being told that "this is annother form of sex, which is every bit as valid as male/female relations?" It's okay to marginalize gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transexuals... (roughly 10% of the population) and it's okay to begin to imprint this bigoted, warped, discriminatory point of view at the earliest age possible?

Why does gay and straight sex have to be taught as being distinct from one another? Um... you DO realize the mechanics are slightly different, right? That gay kids currently face social, legal and medical issues that they may have to contend with which are somewhat different than those straight kids might have to deal with?

Hey, and you end your post with a perfect example of why gay sex education is needed. Thank you!



kdsub -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:07:09 PM)

Doesn't anyone else hate the idea of being pigeon holed into a group because of one or a few beliefs? I sure do…. I believe in many things…some would be considered conservative and others liberal.

I’ll bet the vast majority feel the same way…Only the fanatics among us feel the need to be classified as one way of thinking all the time.

These are usually people unable to see both sides of an argument and will stick to a way of thinking even if it is obviously wrong.  When right they refuse to be gracious and would rather gloat then congratulate you for your understanding.

They are the kind that feel weak by themselves and only feel safe in their group. I pity them when their demigods fail them…they are lost.

Butch



MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:07:41 PM)

why should gay social and legal issues be brought up in SEX ed?



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I don't personally know anyone who is waging a war against gays.


Interesting comment there, Sepphora.....since I don't know a single gay or lesbian who at some point in their lives been a victim of violence by strangers outraged that they are "faggots", "dykes" or other interesting pet names.  Why would gays want that stopped anymore than, say, a black person would want to see lynching ended? Must be a liberal plot.

quote:

But I do personally know a lot of conservatives who are tired of having the liberal PC susie-has-two-mommys gay agenda being shoved down their and their childrens' throats.  Myself included.


Once again, the 'what about the children defense'....how about the agenda that says if a couple has been together for 30 years, and one goes into the hospital, they deserve the right to go in and see them? Not the "privlidge", the RIGHT...just as a married person has the right to see his partner?

Or how about the part of the agenda that says that if two people share a house for twenty years, and one dies without a will, that the property goes to his or her life partner, rather than to a relative that will get it whether he had a relationship with the deceased or not?

How about the right to put your partner on your insurance....or do your taxes as a couple...or do any one of the million things that heterosexual people take for granted and are denied, as a matter of law and policy to homosexuals.

Or how about wanting to change the fact that a gay man and a straight man can both be sent to Iraq, both risk their lives and well being, both perform outstandingly to every code of military standard, yet when the straight soldier comes back, he can take his lover/wife/partner in his arms and kiss her and tell her that he loves her and is cheered, while if the gay soldier in any way lets anyone know that the man who came to meet him is more than just a friend giving him a ride, he will be summarily dismissed from the service.

Yeah, Sepphora..that's one hell of a liberal agenda..and one of the reasons I'm so damned proud to be a liberal.






MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:10:05 PM)

Is that supposed to be funny?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I would say Clinton was closer to rapist than Bush.
Isn't using your office to pressure others into having sex akin to rape?
And isn't that what he did when he was governor of Arkansas?

Edited to add: Clinton was a much better and more accomplished liar than Bush could ever dream of being.


You mean to say that you actually believe those women without water boarding them first? 




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:15:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Is that supposed to be funny?



I thought it was pretty funny.

I've said it before, I'll say it again

Clinton got a blowjob from a consenting adult over a decade ago
Neither Clinton, Mrs. Clinton or the woman who gave the blowjob was complaining about it
Clinton lied about receiving said blowjob

The dress has dried
The ship has sailed
Get over it.

I can, however, if 3,000 service men and tens of thousands of Iraqis had died, half a trillion dollars spent and the constitution been perverted in the name of "National Security" by said blowjob, I would take it far more seriously.





MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:17:28 PM)

I have personally stopped people from saying something is "GAY" as a synonym bad, as I've stopped them from saying something is "RETARDED".
I don't have any problem at all with having a partner on your insurance.  But tell that to a woman I work with, who can't get on her partner of 13 year's insurance because they are not married, even though they have three children together.
It works both ways, for gay and straight.  Are the gays out there pushing for the heterosexual couple who are NOT married to be on another's insurance as well?
Straight couples in the military also have restrictions on their "relations".  Why don't you look that up.

I don't care if you kiss your gay parnter on the mouth in front of me.  Just don't tell me I have to like it.

And for whomever said it, I cannot claim an adult non-relative as a dependant.



MasterShake69 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:20:08 PM)

Lets spin the game back at some on the left.
How can a feminist support porn or viewit??? isn't that anti women?  Thats the POV of some NOW extremists.  They would eliminate all porn if they could.  Don't you think some feminists would view BDSm as an assault against women?  Don't you think they would take down these perceived blights on society and marginalize them into extinction ;)

Taking a look at the NY chaptor of the National Organization of Women
http://www.rochesternow.org/porn.html
WAVE: Women Against a
Violent Environment Porn Insidiously Devalues Women by Barbara Kasper and Barbara Moore Originally published in the October 27, 1994 Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY) There has been much discussion about the airing of the public access show on cable television called Life Without Shame. While many in our community do not want the show to air, there seems to be little we can do to stop it. There are so many rights in the way: the right to adult etertainment, the right to sexual expression, constitutional rights of free speech, and the rights of business owners. One right which has been given little attention in this debate is human rights -- specifically the rights of women. We feel that pornography is harmful to women and that as women we have the right to live in a society free of this harm. Pornography degrades women. It defines us through our body parts. It encourages self-hatred in women because we can never "measure up" to the women seen in pornography. We dare not grow old or become overweight. In pornography, women are rewarded for fulfilling males' fantasies -- being either the passive "good girl" or the insatiable whore. More importantly, pornography frequently eroticizes violence. We do not believe that every man who watches Life Without Shame will become a rapist or beat his wife or girlfriend. However, we do feel that misogynistic sexual entertainment for men portrays the humiliation of women as "sexy" and presents women as two-dimensional beings. In a world where women are being raped, stalked, beaten, and killed in epidemic proportions, pornography conditions too many men to "get off by putting women down." Eventually, viewing enough pornography can desensitize all of us so that we do not even question the devaluation of women in our society.




quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I have to ask a question that has long been bothering me. How can anyone who is in the d/s world to the point of being on this board support the conservative agenda. Financial policy aside, it seems these people are dedicated to our eradication. Does anyone think that a group vocally against reproductive rights, gay rights, free speech rights in the matter of pornography are going to at all support the rights of "whip swinging perverts" like us?

One of the most vocal and self proclaimed neo-cons on this board has a picture of herself in a corset with her breasts bared. The ads that support this site link to d/s pornography sites. Do you have any thought that the party that holds up "traditional American values" and align with the christian right wing would hesitate to shut it down if they could?

Do you think that the conservatives have any interest in allowing d/s organizations like TES or clubs like Paddles to exist? Or is it more likely that their desire is to take down these perceived blights on society and marginalize them into extinction?

Is it just that being into d/s is easier to hide than being gay that makes it possible for you to support an organization that is unmistakably dedicated to our extinction? Or is it just a matter of putting the pocketbook before all else?

In short, just as I would ask a black man how he could support the KKK or a Jew how he could contribute to the Nazi party, I ask again, how can anyone who identifies themselves as part of the d/s community support the conservative social agenda?





MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:20:23 PM)

Do you know anything about what he did as governor?  Do you know Clinton paid Paula Jones $850,000?
I'm a fountain of useless information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Is that supposed to be funny?



I thought it was pretty funny.

I've said it before, I'll say it again

Clinton got a blowjob from a consenting adult over a decade ago
Neither Clinton, Mrs. Clinton or the woman who gave the blowjob was complaining about it
Clinton lied about receiving said blowjob

The dress has dried
The ship has sailed
Get over it.

I can, however, if 3,000 service men and tens of thousands of Iraqis had died, half a trillion dollars spent and the constitution been perverted in the name of "National Security" by said blowjob, I would take it far more seriously.






SpinnerofTales -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:21:12 PM)

quote:

why should gay social and legal issues be brought up in SEX ed?
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

why should gay social and legal issues be brought up in SEX ed?


Gee..I don't know, Sepphora....maybe so that the gay kids in the class don't feel so isolated and freakish that they kill themselves? Or maybe so that the straight kids in the class won't be so irrationally homophobic that they think killing a faggot is a good idea? Or maybe so that a kid with two gay parents isn't subjected to quite as much torture because of it?

I see your point....let's keep teaching kids that being heterosexual is the only way to go, abstinence is the only form of birth control and that anyone who is different isn't to be discussed.

I think it's a lousy point, but I see it






SpinnerofTales -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I
I don't have any problem at all with having a partner on your insurance.  But tell that to a woman I work with, who can't get on her partner of 13 year's insurance because they are not married, even though they have three children together.
It works both ways, for gay and straight.  .


The difference is that your co-worker can marry her partner any time she chooses. A gay couple cannot, by law. That's the difference. And it only works against you if you're gay.




DomKen -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:28:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1
Why don't we have white history month?

January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November and December.
quote:

Why are we allowed Heather has two mommys, but no prayer in school?

One is constitutional the other isn't.
quote:

My daughters know the life story of Rosa Parks, but probably know nothing at all about Susan B. Anthony. *yes, I just asked and had it confirmed*

I seriously doubt if your daughter knows much if anything about Ms. Parks life before or after the bus boycott and would further argue that Susan B. Anthony was ultimately a minor figure in the women's suffrage movement and that others deserve more credit.
quote:

Why is a minorrah an acceptable display in government buildings, but a nativity scene or even a christmas tree is not?

All are acceptable and all are routinely displayed in government buildings. However some conservatives have had a fit over allowing a simple sign to be displayed alongside those displays.




MissSepphora1 -> RE: Conservatives in the D/s Community (2/21/2009 8:28:34 PM)

do you think heterosexual social issues are brought up during SEX ed?  like how to accept a breakup without stalking your partner?  or how to say no to someone who is pressuring you for sex?  or domestic violence?  or talking to your parents about birth control?  or how to tell your parents you're pregnant?
if they did, there wouldn't be so many babies born in bathrooms and disposed of as garbage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

why should gay social and legal issues be brought up in SEX ed?
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

why should gay social and legal issues be brought up in SEX ed?


Gee..I don't know, Sepphora....maybe so that the gay kids in the class don't feel so isolated and freakish that they kill themselves? Or maybe so that the straight kids in the class won't be so irrationally homophobic that they think killing a faggot is a good idea? Or maybe so that a kid with two gay parents isn't subjected to quite as much torture because of it?

I see your point....let's keep teaching kids that being heterosexual is the only way to go, abstinence is the only form of birth control and that anyone who is different isn't to be discussed.

I think it's a lousy point, but I see it







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