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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:01:39 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Just go ahead, I am too confused anyway.


Not a problem.  Admitting it is the first step to learning.

My guns are holstered on this issue with you.

Firm

edited to add:

But angelikaJ is still on my mind ...


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/22/2009 11:06:00 AM >


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:20:09 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Yes some are not very good hunters, but the majority are. This is why they "play" the way they do, and why so many feral cat colonies get started and thrive.

"Much like their big cat relatives, domestic and feral cats are very effective predators.[47] Domestic felines ambush or pounce upon and immobilize vertebrate prey using tactics similar to those of leopards and tigers. Having overpowered such prey, a cat delivers a lethal neck bite with its long canine teeth that either severs the prey's spinal cord with irreversible paralysis to prey, causes fatal bleeding by puncturing the carotid artery or the jugular vein, or asphyxiates the prey by crushing its trachea. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat

Yes you are correct that feral cat colonies, or many outdoor cats in an area can leads to the decimation, and in rare instances, the extinction of certain species of birds.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Cats are pretty good at making it on their own in the wild,


A lot of folks assume this, but it's not true.  Catching food isn't a skill cats pick up on their own - momcat teaches them to do this.  A lot of housecats wouldn't know what to do with a mouse if it did the eat-me dance right under their noses.  My Bob got out and got lost for 4 weeks after we moved to the country, and when we finally found him he was a half-dead tick-ridden bag of bones.  A cat without hunting skills is going to have a slow, miserable death in the wild.

On the other paw, cats with hunting skills can do a lot of damage.  There are big concerns in some areas about the decimation of song birds, and around here folks worry about the wild turkey and pheasant populations.  They nest on the ground and their chicks are easy meals for feral cats.  They can be hard on domestic poultry, too.


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:21:59 AM   
angelikaJ


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If your previous state of residence was KY...(just a guess) then for your information the Kentucky Humane Society states:
"KHS chooses to accept all dogs and cats in need."

You did not choose to be the dumping ground for other people's unwanted animals.

However, you could have searched out and chosen another way of dealing with the ones you felt you could not keep.

Keeping all of them, was of course not a reasonable option; neither for you nor the animals.

(and btw: I came across this information in an effort to disprove my claim that such an agency existed in your prev. state.)

edit: punctuation




< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 2/22/2009 11:48:28 AM >

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:22:31 AM   
GreedyTop


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My domesticated 2 cats are CLUELESS when it comes to the kill point.  Great at catching things, but when it's time to kill...they both just sit there, and you can almost hear them thinking.."Why do I feel like there's something I should be doing?"  lol

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:31:03 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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It would depend upon the animal control facility in the area you are in. There are a few counties here, that still use the old carbon monoxide poisoning method. Problem is that many of those "chambers" are not sealed properly and many animals suffer a long time before finally becoming unconscious, and some of those do not die the first time. There are other methods that one could use on a farm, that can less painful and quick.

One of my hardest moments was dealing with a stray cat that had been hit by a car. I will not go into details, but there was no saving this thing. I had no transportaion, the county had no animal control on the weekend, and I had no weapon. The cat cried for a while, and I comforted it for a short time, and it calmed. Then it ended quickly for it. Things like this, and what Firm has dealt with is not easy. Any that makes it out to be easy, is ignorant and never been in that situation. Sometimes you have to make a bad situation less bad, and there is no good decision.


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Even if you understood what he meant, the question still is, why shoot instead of calling animal control?
If shooting is an accepted way to put down a dog, then why have a vet do it with the ill ones?



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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 11:46:04 AM   
angelikaJ


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Re: Humane Societies...
I did not pull my knowledge of how they work out of thin air.
I also live in a rural area.
Stray cats seemed to wind up on my doorstep and when it became unmanageable I made some calls.

I ran into the same issues with no kill shelters all being beyond capacity ...however, a SPCA chapter (in another county) was more than willing to offer assistance.








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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 12:13:37 PM   
MissMorrigan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
There are limited options for dealing with strays, and most of them suck in one way or another.  A number of farmers around here have a shoot-on-sight policy for dealing with strays.  I couldn't do that - I could shoot a possum or racoon, not a dog or cat - but I can understand why they do. 

Removing the emotive element from this, some research and a night spent pondering all of the points made throughout this thread, I can also understand why some people resort to shooting stray dogs provided it's not done as a pasttime and to sate someone's need to simply destroy a living creature.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigsI think they're acting a lot more responsibly than the person who dumped the pet.

I adore animals, I won't say what happened to the miserable bastard that took delight in poisoning cats in a local neighbourhood or befriending them before maiming and leaving them on the owners' doorstep, suffice to say that when he was caught he regretted the misery caused to each animal prior to its passing (I didn't have anything to do with that and if I came across the person that did, I wouldn't point the authorities in their direction), but I can see a huge difference between the kind of person above killing animals, than a farmer or other rural homesteader shooting dead a stray dog.

I got my cats sixteen (will be almost seventeen later this year) years ago from a residential three-bedroomed house where twenty-five adult cats and several litters of kittens lived. The house was filthy, excrement with evidence of worms littered the carpets up and down, the whole house was used as a toilet. The woman was an alcoholic with UMs and clearly not coping. She began receiving help to clean the house up, but each day started pretty much as the previous one began, awash in worm-riddled diarrhoea/urine and with the homeowner sinking into her alcohol instead of helping to clean up. The day I and another person went in there one of the cats had died from flu-related symptoms, basically its lungs were full of pus and it suffocated. That was the mum of the female kitten I adopted that day, Ishtar. The little man I adopted, Genghis Khan, was in a serious condition, as were some of the other kittens/cats. My friend and I took them to the vets, some had to be put to sleep and the vet began making up the injection for Genghis. A person that connects with an animal can tell if its their time to go or not and I knew it wasn't, so despite the severe flu which took Ish's mum also ravaging him, the chlamydia that blinded him in one eye and fused both eyelids closed, he was saved. He was one of the lucky ones that day and despite my having been into hospital on the odd occasion, we haven't spent time apart. He's been my darling for almost seventeen years. The woman the cats were rescued from received a visit from the RSPCA and social services regarding her UM. I don't know what happened regarding the latter, but the RSPCA told her that she needed to worm the cats and provide more litter trays (at the time, there was just one which looked like a large papier mache sculpture of a landscape... who'd have thought it was actually cat excrement!). I don't know who she knew or why the RSPCA were so lenient but the person learned nothing regarding consequences and the neglect continued. It was necessary to tell this story for one reason only, quite a few more of those cats died, either by disease or neglect, none were inoculated and passed on the flu virus and FIV, and to be honest, I would rather the whole lot had been put to sleep than be subjected to any of that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigsI don't know what I think about Firm's "relocation" of dumped animals now that I've pondered it a bit.  I have nothing but bad things to say about the people who dump animals off out here, I don't care what their reasons are.  I believe that taking on a pet is a life-time commitment.  These aren't Firm's pets, though.  I don't know that his relocating them is any worse than my shooing them away. 

They may not have been Firm's pets, but the responsibility for them was taken the moment they were rounded up and shipped to another area several miles away - even if it was for them to become soemone else's responsibility. That kind of behaviour is reprehensible and I don't understand the 'rationale' of discriminating between one dog and another.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 12:52:55 PM   
Owner59


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This is how it works.

Stray comes into yard,call animal control.

Period.

Then maybe(and only then) the alternative of keeping it,but only after the animal is checked out as healthy and un-owned.

A stray coming into your yard should be treated like a life raft survivor.Nourished and made safe and cared about.Not set adrift again to meet an un-certain and surely horrible death.



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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 1:07:22 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

If your previous state of residence was KY...(just a guess) then for your information the Kentucky Humane Society states:
"KHS chooses to accept all dogs and cats in need."

You did not choose to be the dumping ground for other people's unwanted animals.

However, you could have searched out and chosen another way of dealing with the ones you felt you could not keep.

Keeping all of them, was of course not a reasonable option; neither for you nor the animals.

(and btw: I came across this information in an effort to disprove my claim that such an agency existed in your prev. state.)

edit: punctuation





Ya know .. that particular point has been addressed several times in this thread already.

Please read, and try to keep up.

Firm

edit: Really snarky comments redacted on the advice of my sub.

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/22/2009 1:17:03 PM >


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 1:14:24 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is how it works.

Stray comes into yard,call animal control.

Period.

Then maybe(and only then) the alternative of keeping it,but only after the animal is checked out as healthy and un-owned.

A stray coming into your yard should be treated like a life raft survivor.Nourished and made safe and cared about.Not set adrift again to meet an un-certain and surely horrible death.




More ideologically straitjacketed thinking there, Owner. Everything is black and white. Moral decisions are easy ... just pick one from the menu, no reason to put any thought into it.

It would help you to actually ... you know (as I've mentioned to a few other posters) ... read my posts, rather than simply skipping along the "buzz words" you notice, and having your ego choose to interpret things into your simple little world view.

Firm

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 1:26:38 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

My domesticated 2 cats are CLUELESS when it comes to the kill point.  Great at catching things, but when it's time to kill...they both just sit there, and you can almost hear them thinking.."Why do I feel like there's something I should be doing?"  lol




Reminds me of a cat I once owned whose name was Sweetheart.  We'd had her for at least twelve years and I don't think she'd ever even seen a mouse, even though we lived in the country.  After acquiring a second, much younger cat who was quite the hunter, Sweetheart finally learned the joys of catching mice.  Only problem I had with it was that she really wasn't too sure what to do with it other than bring it to me... live... most often in my bed in the middle of the night. 

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 2/22/2009 1:28:30 PM >

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 2:13:53 PM   
GreedyTop


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lol Treasure.. yeah, often find lizard tails out on the porch.. the girls CATCH them, stand on the tail.. then watch as the tail comes off and the REST of the lizard scurries away!!

eta: once,. one of them managed to get a live lizard into the house.. I had to chase it out...

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 2/22/2009 2:14:50 PM >


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 2:48:50 PM   
Vendaval


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Yes, some of the most memorable moments in having pets is when they bring you a special hunting trophy that is "not quite dead yet" and drop it on you or your favorite pillow. 

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:16:27 PM   
MissMorrigan


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It was from our old ginger tom that we developed a fondness for rabbit stew after he'd repeatedly bring home half-dead rabbits he'd wabbit-napped from neighbours gardens, also the surrounding marshy areas. Regardless of how many times he was told, "No", he decided it wasn't part of his vocabulary and we needed to be educated in the delights of the leporidae long-step.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:28:20 PM   
Vendaval


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At least he brought you something that was good for human consumption. 

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:32:46 PM   
MissMorrigan


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Too true, and shared with him, he wouldn't eat it raw. He was the scourge of the neighbourhood, one paw missing due to a fight with a dog, the dogs were still terrified of him, the postman even more so and we had to collect our post each day from a neighbour. He used to sit on the coal bunker above a sign that said, 'beware of the dog' and slightly hidden by the wooden fence leading to our path. He was a great cat, but an absolute bastard - til his belly was rubbed.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:33:56 PM   
Vendaval


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Sounds like quite a character, Miss Morrigan.

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great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:37:40 PM   
MissMorrigan


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He was and my nan and he had a love/hate relationship, he hated her, she loved him, but wouldn't show it. I caught her digging him up two days after we buried him - she said to make sure he was dead, but I caught her wiping her face on her hanky and knew she did it to have one final goodbye with him, and tell him what she couldn't say infront of us all - that she loved him and would soon be joining him. She had cancer and died less than three weeks later.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 3:39:21 PM   
Vendaval


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That is a very touching story. 

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/22/2009 4:06:53 PM   
kiwisub12


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My daughter recently picked up an approx. 6 week old rottie mix puppy from the parking lot of her work - prominant hip bones, worms and all. Lovely puppy, slowly starving to death in plain sight of all that worked there.  

so much for the milk of human kindness that would take in dumped dogs.

You save a life, you are responsible for it -  post on freecycle if you need to get rid of a dog. Don't abandon it to starve to death!!!!

and yes, the vast majority of our cats, dogs, rabbits, rats, snakes and birds were unwanted or rescued. Heck, i have had one that repeatedly climbed the chainlink fence to get into the backyard!
and of all the cats that we have had, only one could actually catch AND kill anything - usually squirrels. She would kill them, eat the head and leave the rest on the front porch.  So dumped pet cats will starve right along with the dogs.  As will the bunny that you think can survive on grass and weeds when you are tired of cleaning the litter box.
Responsible, humane individuals will take an unwanted pet to the vet for euthenasia, or put in an ad for adoption in the newspaper, or freecycle. Irresponsible people dump their problems for responsible people to take care of (if there are any available). easy.  There isn't a middle ground.

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