RE: My fellow citizens scare me...

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DominantDamsel -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire I'm actually okay for there to be so many stupid people in the world: It gives those of us who took the time to educate ourselves (thet means "book-lernin' to all yew rednecky, mavrick GOP'ers) to have a better shot at survival. Who's more likely to get the etter paying job? Someone like myself who can think on his feet... or some Bible thumping, I.D. taught moron who thinks the sun goes around the Earth? You go, religion! Do everything you can to take advantage of, and control over, ignorant people everywhere! Instill in them tennants and restrictions that will keep them in their place- scared of the wrath of some non-existant supernatural entity, should they get out of line! I don't want them getting all uppity and violent while my smarter-than-they brothers and myself take the cream of humanity's crop, and head to the stars. BTW, I'm sure the OP witheld the other statistic... the incidence of being ignorant, highly religious... and voting republican. Ahem... I'm not sure where extremely well educated, conservative, religious domme types in the south fit into your ignorant generalizations posited above, but I do know this: With this post above and some of your others, you've made yourself look like a candidate for the Jerry Springer show, instead of a highly educated man from Arkansas. Perhaps you might attempt to think outside of the box, which is the more accurate perception of real intelligence, and try to understand that religious beliefs are not necessarily a measure of IQ one way or the other -- and neither are political affiliations, as you've proven to all of us right here!

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:02:40 PM)
What a great job our schools are doing. To bad the teachers union prevents competition from occuring ;) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012501816.html quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 "Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?_r=5 Thank God everyone doesn't live in Cambridge, Mass or Bezerkley, Calif.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:03:15 PM)
quote: And herein is yet another reason why some people scare me. They truly cannot distinguish between superstition and analytical thinking. Hippie, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone more skeptical than I am. However superstitious folks don't scare me. If anything, they amuse me. One thing that bothers me in your OP is your insistence on turning your fear/bewilderment/whatever into a political argument. It's funny but I hear liberals attack Christian fundamentalists for clinging to superstition, but I never hear them do the same with self-described neo-pagans, wiccans, buddhists, etc. Apparently for liberals, the "cool" religions get a free pass when it comes to superstition.

FirmhandKY -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So ... when was the last time you saw the Big Bang .... ? [:)] Every second of every day we all see the Big Bang. The universe was once very small and very hot. The universe then began to expand. That process continues to this day. Google is your friend. A particularly interesting link and extracts: An Open Letter to the Scientific Community: *(Published in New Scientist, May 22, 2004)* The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed-- inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, raise serious questions about the validity of the underlying theory. But the big bang theory can't survive without these fudge factors. ... What is more, the big bang theory can boast of no quantitative predictions that have subsequently been validated by observation. ... Yet the big bang is not the only framework available for understanding the history of the universe. Plasma cosmology and the steady-state model both hypothesize an evolving universe without beginning or end. These and other alternative approaches can also explain the basic phenomena of the cosmos, including the abundances of light elements, the generation of large-scale structure, the cosmic background radiation, and how the redshift of far-away galaxies increases with distance. They have even predicted new phenomena that were subsequently observed, something the big bang has failed to do. ... Signed: (Institutions for identification only) Highlighted names are linked to related web pages Halton Arp, Max-Planck-Institute Fur Astrophysik (Germany) Andre Koch Torres Assis, State University of Campinas (Brazil) Yuri Baryshev, Astronomical Institute, St. Petersburg State University (Russia) Ari Brynjolfsson, Applied Radiation Industries (USA) Hermann Bondi, Churchill College, University of Cambridge (UK) Timothy Eastman, Plasmas International (USA) Chuck Gallo, Superconix, Inc.(USA) Thomas Gold, Cornell University (emeritus) (USA) Amitabha Ghosh, Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur (India) Walter J. Heikkila, University of Texas at Dallas (USA) Michael Ibison, Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin (USA) Thomas Jarboe, University of Washington (USA) Jerry W. Jensen, ATK Propulsion (USA) Menas Kafatos, George Mason University (USA) Eric J. Lerner, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (USA) Paul Marmet, Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics (retired) (Canada) Paola Marziani, Istituto Nazionale di Astrofisica, Osservatorio Astronomico di Padova (Italy) Gregory Meholic, The Aerospace Corporation (USA) Jacques Moret-Bailly, Université Dijon (retired) (France) Jayant Narlikar, IUCAA(emeritus) and College de France (India, France) Marcos Cesar Danhoni Neves, State University of Maringá (Brazil) Charles D. Orth, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (USA) R. David Pace, Lyon College (USA) Georges Paturel, Observatoire de Lyon (France) Jean-Claude Pecker, College de France (France) Anthony L. Peratt, Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA) Bill Peter, BAE Systems Advanced Technologies (USA) David Roscoe, Sheffield University (UK) Malabika Roy, George Mason University (USA) Sisir Roy, George Mason University (USA) Konrad Rudnicki, Jagiellonian University (Poland) Domingos S.L. Soares, Federal University of Minas Gerais (Brazil) John L. 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Taylor, Independent Researcher, USA Constantin Leshan, Independent Researcher , Moldova Avid Samwaru, Independent Researcher, USA Thomas Goodey, Independent Researcher, UK Johan Masreliez, Independent Researcher, USA Efrèn Cañedo, Independent Researcher , Mèxico Michael Bliznetsov, Independent Researcher, Russia Peter Michalicka, Independent Researcher, Austria Ivan D. Alexander , Independent Researcher, S. Ray DeRusse, Independent Researcher, USA Chris Maharaj, Independent Researcher, Trinidad Peter Warlow, Independent Researcher, United Kingdom Gordon Wheeler, Independent Researcher, United States Boxer Ma, Independent Researcher, Thailand Robert Wido, Independent Researcher, United States John Hunter independent researcher U.K Marcelo de Almeida Bueno independent researcher Brazil Jean-Pierre Ady Fenyo, Independent Researcher, United Status Adam W.L. Chan , Independent Researcher , Hong Kong Renato Giussani independent researcher Italy Brian S. 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Sanders, Independent_Researcher, USA/South Korea Alex Carlson, Independent_Researcher, United States Lyndon Ashmore, Independent_Researcher, UK Liedmann, Matthias, Unaffiliated_Scientific_Researcher, Germany Ingvar Astrand, Independent_Researcher, Sweden Olli Santavuori, Independent_Researcher, Finlande Touho Ankka, Independent_Researcher, Finland JR Croca, Independent_Researcher, Portugal Sol Aisenberg, Independent_Researcher, USA Mustafa Kemal OYMAN, Independent_Researcher, Turkey Gerard ZONUS, Independent_Researcher, FRANCE David W. Knight, Independent_Researcher, USA Marcel Lutttgens, Independent_Researcher, France Dr Stephen Birch, Independent_Researcher, United Kingdom Abramyan G.L., Independent_Researcher, Russia Martin Peprnik, Independent_Researcher, Slowakia Van Den Hauwe, PhD, Independent_Researcher,: Belgium Ingvar Astrand, Independent_Researcher, Sweden Daniel Toohey, Independent_Researcher, Australia Jed Shlackman, M.S. Ed. (LMHC, C.Ht.), Independent_Researcher, USA Dr. John Michael Nahay, Independent_Researcher Guido Grzinic, Independent_Researcher, Australia Hippie can use his sacrosanct mathematics to count the names. [:D] Firm

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:10:27 PM)
Is it a description of God or Dark Matter? Is Dark Matter the God of astronomy and cosmology?? http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:28:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious. Every Jesuit I have known is a devout man of God. On a different note, why does any of this bother you? Is it so hard to leave people alone with their beliefs? If you want to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, or the great pumpkin, or that the the big bang created everything, then so what? And as far as fundamental folk are concerned, again, so what? Its their lives, let them live it how they want to live it, don't like it or it scares you or whatever keeps you up at night, then turn the other way or keep walking. Anyhow, I am have a headache and am tired so have fun being scared that people think differently than you.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:32:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: And herein is yet another reason why some people scare me. They truly cannot distinguish between superstition and analytical thinking. Hippie, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone more skeptical than I am. However superstitious folks don't scare me. If anything, they amuse me. One thing that bothers me in your OP is your insistence on turning your fear/bewilderment/whatever into a political argument. It's funny but I hear liberals attack Christian fundamentalists for clinging to superstition, but I never hear them do the same with self-described neo-pagans, wiccans, buddhists, etc. Apparently for liberals, the "cool" religions get a free pass when it comes to superstition. I just finished the Dalai Lama's "The Universe in a Grain of Sand: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality" An amazing read. The Dalai Lama is personal friends with the world's leading Physicists. Buddhist philosphy dovetails uncannily with physics (and my own "spirituality" or Cosmology, whatever term you prefer). So I except Buddhism from the rest of the goofy whackjob cults like Wicca, Neo-Paganism, Islam, Catholicism, and the rest. (I'm undecided about Hinduism for reasons too complex to go into here) The difference is that none of the other non-Christian cults have any sort of political power in the US, except perhaps for Judaism. And only the Protestant cults, like Assembly of God etc., are trying to dictate how I live. That's why you never hear Progressives opposing any but the Fundie Theocrats. (Dobson, Haggard, and the other headcases like them)

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:39:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious. Every Jesuit I have known is a devout man of God. On a different note, why does any of this bother you? Is it so hard to leave people alone with their beliefs? If you want to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, or the great pumpkin, or that the the big bang created everything, then so what? And as far as fundamental folk are concerned, again, so what? Its their lives, let them live it how they want to live it, don't like it or it scares you or whatever keeps you up at night, then turn the other way or keep walking. Anyhow, I am have a headache and am tired so have fun being scared that people think differently than you. So, are you asserting ALL Jesuits are "Men of God"? Just what IS a "Man of God"? You know all Jesuits, do you? You, like nearly everyone else, miss the point. That's why I included the third quote in my OP, which was evidently wasted. The point is no-nothingism, ignorance, superstitution, being the predominant qualities of most Americans, particularly the Right.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:43:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 Is it a description of God or Dark Matter? Is Dark Matter the God of astronomy and cosmology?? http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious. Sounds like excellent questions for you to answer. Hop to it, seeker of knowledge.

FirmhandKY -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:46:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So it is your opinion that science isn't a belief system? Opinion? As a former scientist, I practiced chemistry. I didn't have to "believe" that I could, say, titrate for calcium and magnesium using EDTA and Eriochrome Black T as an indicator. It was a fact. That's what Science is. It is a technique for determining what is factual and what is not. Do lawyers "believe" in evidence? of course not. It either exists or it does not. The very fact that you argue that Science is some sort of "belief system" that is somehow equivalent to "In the beginning, it was really dark. Then some big Kozmic Spook turned on the light" tells me you really have no understanding of what Science is, even though you may think you do. You are as wrong about what you think Science is as you are about dumping animals out in the void. You are not, and never have been a "scientist", I'm afraid. The first requirement to be a scientist is an open mind. [I]t is not what the man of science believes that distinguishes him, but how and why he believes it. His beliefs are tentative, not dogmatic; they are based on evidence, not on authority or intuition. Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy You may have some technical expertise in your branch of science, but you fall to a very common fallacy of "Appeal to Misleading Authority". One of the types: The "authority" cited is not an expert on the issue, that is, the person who supplies the opinion is not an expert at all, or is one, but in an unrelated area. The now-classic example is the old television commercial which began: "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV...." The actor then proceeded to recommend a brand of medicine. You have a vested interest in not seeing that science is a belief system, therefore you deny it, and then claim you are a "scientist" and therefore your opinion should triumph. You are no better than the priest referencing a scripture in the bible to prove the Holy Trinity. Your belief system isn't science. I'm not sure what your belief system actually is, but I'm pretty confident that it's not science. Firm

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:46:32 PM)
99% of the time it worked out very well for him. That was up to the theory of earth revolving around the sun, then things changed for him ;) Oh there is a quote of a famous 20th century scientist “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” now this famous scientist didn't believe in a personal God but in a creator. quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire MasterShake blithered: so a devout Catholic cant be a scientist ;) Thats because they cant learn anything else? well a few hundred years ago many scientists were Catholic and practiced their faith like galileo galilee. So, how did that work out for him, MasterShake? I imagine the church just threw their arms around him and kissed him on both cheeks when he published his theories?

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:49:10 PM)
How did daddy buy him out of vietnam? who did daddy send the money too? quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales I believe that W was sincere in his Christian beliefs. I can all but hear his fervent prayers God, I'm glad Daddy was able to buy my way out of serving my country in Viet Nam and of course Jesus, get me out of Washington before my approval rating goes any lower. Hey..if I was a spoiled little rich kid who never earned an honest dollar in my life (obviously to the cons, running oil businesses into the ground is a better experience than being a community organizer) and I was handed the top office in the land, I'd believe in a god too.

DomKen -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 10:55:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So ... when was the last time you saw the Big Bang .... ? [:)] Every second of every day we all see the Big Bang. The universe was once very small and very hot. The universe then began to expand. That process continues to this day. Google is your friend. Too bad you didn't read the links. From the first one http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020429080540.htm quote: The idea also reproduces all the successful explanations provided by standard picture, but there is no direct evidence to say which is correct, said Steinhardt, a professor of physics. "I do not eliminate either of them at this stage," he said. "To me, what's interesting is that we now have a second possibility that is poles apart from the standard picture in many respects, and we may have the capability to distinguish them experimentally during the coming years." IOW the new theory by postulating an unknown process by which collapse and reexpansion would occur, with no evidence that such does occur, violates the most basic premise of Occam's Razor. That my friend is interesting specualtion but until this hypothesis makes a testable prediction at variance with the Big Bang it is not useful. BTW this hypothesis postulates an infinite series of Big Bangs and Big Crunches not that the universe was never very small and very hot and has subsequently expanded. quote: A particularly interesting link and extracts: An Open Letter to the Scientific Community: *(Published in New Scientist, May 22, 2004)* Signed: (Institutions for identification only) Highlighted names are linked to related web pages Halton Arp, Max-Planck-Institute Fur Astrophysik (Germany) Dr. Alp has long been disproven, since at least the 70's but stubbornly refuses to acknowledge new data. As is usual for this sort of dubious statement it is populated extensively by people with no expertise in the area under discussion. Plus you have dedicated flingers of woo like this fellow (#16 on list): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Lerner My hypothesis is you have no idea what evidence supports Big Bang cosmology and have no conception how well supported it really is. I recommend you investigate the subject some.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:02:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So it is your opinion that science isn't a belief system? Opinion? As a former scientist, I practiced chemistry. I didn't have to "believe" that I could, say, titrate for calcium and magnesium using EDTA and Eriochrome Black T as an indicator. It was a fact. That's what Science is. It is a technique for determining what is factual and what is not. Do lawyers "believe" in evidence? of course not. It either exists or it does not. The very fact that you argue that Science is some sort of "belief system" that is somehow equivalent to "In the beginning, it was really dark. Then some big Kozmic Spook turned on the light" tells me you really have no understanding of what Science is, even though you may think you do. You are as wrong about what you think Science is as you are about dumping animals out in the void. You are not, and never have been a "scientist", I'm afraid. The first requirement to be a scientist is an open mind. t is not what the man of science believes that distinguishes him, but how and why he believes it. His beliefs are tentative, not dogmatic; they are based on evidence, not on authority or intuition. Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy You may have some technical expertise in your branch of science, but you fall to a very common fallacy of "Appeal to Misleading Authority". One of the types: The "authority" cited is not an expert on the issue, that is, the person who supplies the opinion is not an expert at all, or is one, but in an unrelated area. The now-classic example is the old television commercial which began: "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV...." The actor then proceeded to recommend a brand of medicine. You have a vested interest in not seeing that science is a belief system, therefore you deny it, and then claim you are a "scientist" and therefore your opinion should triumph. You are no better than the priest referencing a scripture in the bible to prove the Holy Trinity. Your belief system isn't science. I'm not sure what your belief system actually is, but I'm pretty confident that it's not science. Firm "They are based on evidence, not authority or intuition." That's right. EVIDENCE. Which the religious lack. Newsflash: Bertrand Russell was not only not a "scientist", he was also an atheist. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/russell.htm How ironic. Then you devolve into an ad hominem. I could tell you what I think of you, also, but I'll demurre and just say that since you took the discussion to a personal level, by insulting me, we're through. Ta-ta.

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:07:57 PM)
not if you budget is dependant on funds perpetuating a belief with little evidence supporting it ;) the scientific method needs to be used but isnt for people believing in there global warming religion :) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081119120155.htm ScienceDaily (Nov. 25, 2008) — A detailed analysis of black carbon -- the residue of burned organic matter -- in computer climate models suggests that those models may be overestimating global warming predictions. A new Cornell study, published online in Nature Geosciences, quantified the amount of black carbon in Australian soils and found that there was far more than expected, said Johannes Lehmann, the paper's lead author and a Cornell professor of biogeochemistry. The survey was the largest of black carbon ever published. The findings are significant because soils are by far the world's largest source of carbon dioxide, producing 10 times more carbon dioxide each year than all the carbon dioxide emissions from human activities combined. Small changes in how carbon emissions from soils are estimated, therefore, can have a large impact. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3982101/2008-was-the-year-man-made-global-warming-was-disproved.html quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire Science is the opposite of belief. Science is skeptisisim, Theories are proposed, yes, but nothing is accepted until experiments are done to test the theory, and those experiments are independantly replicated. Even then, if a new theory comes along and explains the same phenomena in an even better way than before, the old theory is modified, or outright discarded. With belief, you are asked to believe something based only on the say so of an "authority." In fact, you make a deal with that authority to stop asking questions... (thus foresaking the greatest gift that "God" or nature has bestowed upon you: your intelligence.) ...and blindly believe whatever they tell you... you know, like gays are evil, creationisim is the only "truth" you need, or that you should strap explosives onto your body and set yourself off in a crowded area.... Oh, but I kid... We all know that the REAL religion to follow concerns a guy who was killed, rose up three days later, gave a nice speech, then was "taken up" in a blaze of special effects worthy of CE3K. And, if you believe in this blindly, you will only have to pay 10% of your total income to be allowed into the happy hunting ground where you can sit on a cloud, strum a harp, and oogle God with an almost sexual intensity... Hey, anything else is obviously false and ridiculous!

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:11:53 PM)
The essence of the liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment. This is the way opinions are held in science, as opposed to the way in which they are held in theology. -- Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays, "Philosophy and Politics" (1950), p. 149, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell, "Christian Ethics" from Marriage and Morals (1950), quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief And there is nobody so sure of anything than a religious fundamentalist.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 not if you budget is dependant on funds perpetuating a belief with little evidence supporting it ;) the scientific method needs to be used but isnt for people believing in there global warming religion :) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081119120155.htm ScienceDaily (Nov. 25, 2008) — A detailed analysis of black carbon -- the residue of burned organic matter -- in computer climate models suggests that those models may be overestimating global warming predictions. A new Cornell study, published online in Nature Geosciences, quantified the amount of black carbon in Australian soils and found that there was far more than expected, said Johannes Lehmann, the paper's lead author and a Cornell professor of biogeochemistry. The survey was the largest of black carbon ever published. The findings are significant because soils are by far the world's largest source of carbon dioxide, producing 10 times more carbon dioxide each year than all the carbon dioxide emissions from human activities combined. Small changes in how carbon emissions from soils are estimated, therefore, can have a large impact. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3982101/2008-was-the-year-man-made-global-warming-was-disproved.htmly I have a brilliant fucking idea! Why don't you start a thread on Global Climate Change!

FirmhandKY -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:18:49 PM)
You need to reread your own quoted material. Is it true that actual scientist have proposed other theories than "The Big Bang"? If so (and it is), then I've proved my point, because you refuse to acknowledge the fact, because it attacks your belief system. Again, just like Hippie, you claim membership in the in scientific belief system yet do not actually practice its precepts. Firm

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:24:17 PM)
Damn it FirmhandKY...you stole my NUKE!! I usually use dark matter as a my ultimate weapon against people who attack religion. But I see you used it here a minute before I did. :)

DomKen -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/23/2009 11:41:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You need to reread your own quoted material. Is it true that actual scientist have proposed other theories than "The Big Bang"? No. you have shown some press releases where some interesting hypothesi have been announced. A theory requires confirming data (lest you forget your recent insistence on using the strict technical definition of every term so no lay definition of theory for you). None exists for the claims put forward in your googling. If you had bothered to read even a few of them you would know this. You have also put forward a a number of supporters of disproven hypothesi who stubbornly cling to obsolete ideas and some just good old fashioned hucksters selling cold fusion and other out right frauds. quote:* If so (and it is), then I've proved my point, because you refuse to acknowledge the fact, because it attacks your belief system. Once again a theory requires a confirmed hypothesis, no matter what the press release authors put in the headlines, and no such thing exists. quote: Again, just like Hippie, you claim membership in the in scientific belief system yet do not actually practice its precepts. Firm I don't claim membership in any belief system. I use the scientific methodology as does every person every conscious sane moment of their lives. *I knew you'd stumble into the trap you set for yourself relatively quickly.

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