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Does this disturb anyone else - 1/20/2006 8:05:34 PM

TypeWriter

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Folks,

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009QYSTY/103-7406834-0771019?v=glance

I know a child (4 yrs old) that was given one of these dolls for Christmas. Is it me or is this horribly wrong. One of them has handcuffs!

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/20/2006 8:31:54 PM

Loraith

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Our oldest has the teen version of these twins. One is the 'good one', one is the 'bad one'. They come with an angel or a devil keychain, one wears red, the other pink. One's in perfect 'prep' clothing, the other in 'shabbier' looking clothes. One's hair is 'natural', the other has 'streaks'. It's just the old and battered 'good twin vs bad twin' idea. I doubt any associate the handcuffs with anything to do with sex...merely the good girl vs bad girl.

I think we're likely to attach an underlying meaning to the handcuffs because they're representative of an idea to us. It's just as likely that someone else would associate them with the criminal element and/or prison. Or indicative of a future career goal in law-enforcement for that matter. What, if anything, makes you think someone else naturally assumes the handcuffs have some sort of sexual reference as opposed to the alternative? Should we be worried that the doll/action figure that comes with rope is referencing bondage? What about an action figure that carries a bullwhip? The spy action figure comes with binoculars and a toy knife. Stalker tendancies? Bratz dolls have a male version that dress in a 'Rapper' style. Does that mean those dolls represent gang-bangers? See where this gets out of hand?

Just because a doll comes with a crop, doesn't mean it has anything to do with BDSM. It's just as likely, if not more so, for it to be in reference to horses.

We see what we want to see.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 3:53:28 AM

MHOO314

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As one who has a teen that is border goth, the handcuffs are one of their "accessories"--she is not allowed to have a set for decoration---because of the inherent dangers, not the BDSM symbol. However, I agree, these dolls do nothing for Me---I'm missing the point totally.

and she does have a ridinig crop that sits by her door--because we DO have horses---smiles

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 5:42:24 AM

TypeWriter

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I like the idea of alternative culture dolls but these are so sexualized it bothers me to see a 4 yr old with them.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 5:53:00 AM

MstrssPassion

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I don't have anything pleasant to say about that whole bratz line of toys.

I'll stop with that, don't want to start my day off with negativity.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 6:16:52 AM

Littlepita

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My daughter loved her Bratz dolls a few years ago. She had a ton of them and I was constantly picking up tiny clothes or their shoes. *Do you know that those dolls don't have feet!!* Anyway, it was a phase and while they weren't like my Barbies when I was her age it's what all the girls were into.

Now, she is 14 and borderline Goth. Her newest passion is Jack Skelton and the Goth Grumpy Care Bear. Oh and watching Gay Anime music videos. *Rolls eyes*

All I know is that I haven't been a happy mama since she was 10. I am holding out hope she grows up semi-normal.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 9:23:01 AM

TexasMaam

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It wounds my heart to think of children being exposed to such things, however seemingly harmless they may appear to be to the parent. It makes me positively outraged at the corporations who manufacture these goods and pander them to millions of parents and children like candy.

I'm always amazed by parents who believe that exposure to disturbing icons or concepts of any kind will not affect their children negatively.

I'm even more saddened by parents who remain adamant that proffering their children gifts that promote bizarre, "naughty", "smart*ss", deviant or violent behavior are harmless because the toys were 'just a phase' or 'a rehash of the evil twin concept' or 'just a video game'. It grieves me to hear them later lament that their child has grown up to be bizarre, naughty, smart*ss, deviant or violent.

HELLO.

The tragedy is that parents who have been entrusted with such precious blessings, their children, are often blind when it comes to parental guidance and protection.

Protect your children from icons or symbols or activities if you question, even for a moment, what affect it might have on their well being now or in the future!

Yes, I know, they will be exposed to these items elsewhere, etc.

Yes, I know, they can't be protected forever.

Hopefully, however, they will at least have a firm foundation on what a healthy, happy, loving, well loved, secure childhood can be from at least ONE parent. Give them that to remember about you, and build upon, as they mature.

They will have time enough to be challenged by such ideas when they reach an age where they can hopefully make good choices for themselves, whatever the subject matter might be.

WIITWD is an adult pursuit, for adults, by adults, in careful consideration of the risks and consequences. To allow our children to be exposed even to the vague concepts of these activities is a heinous offense that can affect any child's psyche for their entire lives.

“Whoever causes one of the least of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were cast into the sea.”

Romans 14; Matthew 18; Mark 5; Luke 12; Acts 26. It must have been an important point to have been reiterated to us so many times.

One doesn't have to push or trip a little one to 'cause them to stumble', sometimes one only has to be careless, or thoughtless, or selfish, or too preoccupied with their own adult perceptions to be bothered with watching out for the children.

<with heavy heart,

TM

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 10:11:57 AM

perverseangelic

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They're dolls.

Teach your children they're dolls. Teach them that humans aren't designed to look like that and that female worth comes from more than how they are dressed.

I have to hope that parental influence goes above and beyond the toys and that what we -teach- our kids tells them more than the bits of plastic they play with.

I grew up with barbies, baby dolls, kitchen sets other representations of sexualized females and women obeying their "proper" roles. With parents that taught me to think I've grown into a strong, intelligent feminist who believes what a woman's role is what she -choses- it to be, and that part of that choice invovles informing our kids but also allowing them to play with toys as what they are.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 10:35:25 AM

Loraith

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There is a point where 'protecting' and 'sheltering' becomes blurred.

I think the responsible thing to do is to nurture them with beliefs, values, and a set of morals instead of shutting them away from the real world. At least this way they will be better prepared for it when encountered away from home where you, as a parent, aren't able to guide them. Doing anything other would seem to be the dis-service to me.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 10:45:54 AM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

I don't have anything pleasant to say about that whole bratz line of toys.

I'll stop with that, don't want to start my day off with negativity.

You said that in a much more diplomatic way than I was going to say it.
Thank you.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 11:15:05 AM

candystripper

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When i was raising my kid, it was more tv and the insane search for certain toys, e.g., cabbage patch dolls. i remember my kid getting into "Ren and Stimpy" and i was totally grossed out....but how do you tell a 14 yr old what to watch on tv?

She turned out great; so i guess i was lucky.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 11:21:06 AM

FelinePersuasion

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I personally think most kids toys out now are stupid, bratz, dora the explora, barny and friends, ECT, ECT, ECT.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 11:55:40 AM

bucky5000

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do you have anything to back that up? Dora the Explorer is a great icon for children. she does not portray any negative images, and she teaches kids spanish! my 6 year old absolutely loves her, and watches the show every time she can. why would you think that the toys are stupid? they are educational, and helping our kids so they DON'T grow up stupid. Barney is another example of a great role model for kids. he teaches them to accept differences in people, to love everyone, and to use their imagination. He's a little bit annoying with the songs and everything, but its a great learning tool for children
I realize that it should be the parents teaching their kids, but they are going to watch tv anyways, and play with toys, you can't deprive them of toys. it's better that they have educational toys that don't send any negative messages than things like barbies. even brats dolls at least teach kids that there are other ways to look than just blonde with big boobs....so, while you are entitled to your opinion, perhaps you should have something to back it up. WHY do you think they are stupid? just becuase you wouldn't play with them?? well, i would sure hope a 40 year old wouldn't be playing with childrens toys anymore.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 12:27:50 PM

Aileen68

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Well...I have a five year old and a three year old mini me. I am a hands on mom and spend a lot of time playing with them and their toys. I hate these dolls... fiver got one for her birthday. Back to the store it went. There are so many other dolls and toys out there that I would prefer her to have and as long as I'm her mom and have control of her life then it's my way. They in no way represent any way that I want her to look, dress or act. My god...they're called Bratz. I spend three quarters of my time with them trying to get them to not act like that. Why on Earth would I encourage it with a toy.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 1:31:12 PM

FelinePersuasion

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Bucky I think they're stupid because I feel they talk down to kids and they're annoyin and way to sugary sweet fakeness, Barney is also inaccurate they chose the worst meaniest preditor of all dinosordom to play the most sickly sweetest one. T rex's terrorized all the other dinosours, and I don't think trysaratops were the nicest dino's either, They have horns ment to attack with after all. I think they casted that one all wrong. and inaccuratly.

Sesame street was a much better show to teach kids I feel because They did teach things in a fun way and even as an adult now I will still watch sessame street over any of those other shows.

I learned to count in spanish from sessamestreet I learned a lot of things from sessame street

By the way I'm not 40 I am 23 and child hood wasn't that far off for me. And I still wouldn't watch barney or dora. Because I find them to be irritating and stupid as hell.

And even if I was 40 I think that if someone found simple joy in playing with a child toy who's to judge. I personally think a lot of stuff in kink shouldn't be done like shitting on others, but I don't tell those into scat they shouldn't do it lol.

< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 1/21/2006 1:43:40 PM >

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 1:46:36 PM

MJSunshine

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These dolls are offensive...but only because they portray self-expression via fashion as the definition between good/bad.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 5:31:49 PM

SirKenin

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They do not bother Me, but then again I have thick skin and adhere to the live and let live policy (not crying to the authorities because someone said something I did not like is part of that). However, that said I think they are stupid.

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/21/2006 5:39:24 PM

Tine11

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

Now, she is 14 and borderline Goth. Her newest passion is Jack Skelton and the Goth Grumpy Care Bear. Oh and watching Gay Anime music videos. *Rolls eyes*

All I know is that I haven't been a happy mama since she was 10. I am holding out hope she grows up semi-normal.

First of all i am 21 adn i love Grumpy, (grew up with care bears) along with Jack Skelton. The whole Anime does not meas she will not be normal, its just the new craze in american culture. May i sugest you go get some good real japaneese anime, adn then she won't watch the gay americanized stuff, which can be pritty bad.

Secondly, their no normal. So what can say, let her be who she is. If she will have friends she wants, and as long are you strict on the main rules of the house, she follows them and makes good grades. What more could you ask for?

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/22/2006 2:16:21 AM

mons

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hello i am a doll collector and and no way are these dolls that was spoken of are in the main stream of the doll making business this doll are indeed made for the bdsm community and they are not for childern. they are in many often collectors special that are made for many adult who are in bdsm i have seen many of these dolls they have leather on whips and not they are not to do with any thing other then dolls for special collectors. now yes it bother it a great deal i have over 500 dollars i have childern who come to vistit to see mydolls i would never have anything like that in my collection it is wrong and gives a chilf the wrong andmixed ideals. yes this are made with all ofthe things the have bdsm they are very nice dolls but i would not buy one too racy for my taste sense i display my in several cases. i hope this clear this up these are notfor childern at all the books to look in are MOdern Doll collector and Doll Reader thanks and i hope this open answer some of the questions

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RE: Does this disturb anyone else - 1/22/2006 12:05:13 PM

FelinePersuasion

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They're dolls made for kids, interpret what you will from them but their not made for bdsm. Their kids dolls for kids. The outfits for the good versus bad may be a little over the top, but no one see's bad clothes and automatically assumes bdsm, unless ya read more into it than there is lol.

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