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Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:18:06 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting, we are just another layer of opions, judgements and vehemence--added to the-- and inclusive of-- existing opinions and judgements.

so here is My methodology: To new people who find our life, to the world when it listens--whether RT or here we do an injustice, we espouse acceptance, openness-, a community--yeah---as long as it is vetted against our individual morals, standards and values. If it isn't, we become defensive or aggressive--"you can't", "you shouldn't", " how could you", " how dare you"... so is our world a new world or just a special interest group that hides the fact that we still judge, based on:

relationship
age
weight
color
beliefs
standards
squeek factor
morals
limits
education
tolerance
experiences
prejudices

etc
etc
etc

We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not...

<grabs a martini and sits back>

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

Post #: 1

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:24:40 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting

Sorry, I hate to disappoint you but I am open and accepting.
I am also judgemetal and opinionated. Both of these have nothing to do with open mindedness and acceptance of others.

I could care less what another person does. That does not mean however, that I have no opinion on it or that I will not judge the person according to my own standards. I do however, accept that I have no right to tell another how to live. Only they have that choice. I understand and accept this.

I see nothing wrong with being judgemental. It's a part of being human. But just because I AM judgemental does not mean that I don't believe that every person has the right to do what they want, when they want, how they want, and with whoever they want. That's their business, not mine.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 2

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:36:39 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

I'm not accepting of assholes, and have a low tolerance for bullshit and stupidity.

What was the question?

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(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 3

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:39:22 AM

lauren0221

Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not

I, personally, have not found any correlation between this proclivity and degree of open-mindedness and/or prejudice.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 4

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:40:23 AM

pdv99

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline

It's dead easy to judge other people by our own tastes and preferences "My kink is fine, but your kink is a disgusting perversion because I'm grossed out by it.

It's a temptation we should try our hardest to resist. Try not to look at labels, but feel for the quality, whether in clothes or relationships. Try to remember that each of us is unique. We are more different to others in our group than we care to admit, but we have far more in common with people in other groups than we realise, if we take the time to look. So many of the world's problems come down to that quick easy judgement "Jew" "Straight" "Muslim" "Male""Black" "Vanilla" "White" "Christian" "Atheist" "Old" "Young" "Woman" "Gay"
On my profile I think I ticked a box saying Switch. I meant "I am capable of switching roles". In some circumstances. With some people. But I find some people who won't talk to me because "You are A Switch and so there wouldn't be any point in getting to know you because I'm not"

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 5

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:41:44 AM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

Kinksters in general or CM in particular?

From what I've observed, the level of openness and tolerance varies widely depending on the group. My local kink community is horribly drama-prone, bigoted, sexist, and ageist. That's why I have little, if any, use for them and am not active in the local scene. The kink communities on LiveJournal and Fet Life get mixed reviews -- some are better than others.

The CM forums are full of wonderful, intelligent people who have a lot of experience and good insights to share. It's a pity that CM is also full of the most negative, intolerant, hateful assholes of any of the forums I've experienced. Anytime someone decides to post, it's a craps shoot for the poster -- they might get thoughtful posts or they might get burned at the stake. It seems to depend more on whether or not the poster is well-known and widely accepted as part of the "in crowd" (however one chooses to define the term) than on content.

Overall, I'd say kinksters in general are as biased and judgemental as any other cross-section of the population. However, individual groups may or may not be open and tolerant, depending on the people involved.

Edited for typos.

< Message edited by SylvereApLeanan -- 2/28/2009 11:46:00 AM >

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 6

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:50:19 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

A judgment is an opinion!
Yep, we are as judgmental and opinionated as any other group, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. Differing points of view make for livelier discussions—in my opinion, anyway!

Sometimes they make me think, sometimes they make me laugh.
Several things that will always make me chuckle:
the belief that we must always agree that YKIOK (sometimes I can---sometimes I can’t--)
and
I’m pretty sure we would find this a very boring place if we all agreed
and
the fact that no one has ever complained when they are judged positively!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 7

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 11:54:42 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

If people did not judge how could they make any decisions?

Some things people should rally against and be judgemental about and fight damn hard against - i can't mention one in particular because it is against TOS.

All i can say is i do my best not to be overly intrusive with my opinions and judgments, sometimes i am successful and sometimes i am not. i don't believe because i "have these proclivities" i necessarily have to be all open and accepting. i am an average person 99.9% of the time and only human after all.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 8

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 12:15:26 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

Being into bdsm doesn't make people, better, stronger, faster, cuter, less judgemental, or more tolerant than others. BDSM is not Utopia. Same kinds of people into bdsm that aren't into it. I shake my head when I see some posts in various boards and groups saying how they thought bdsmers were more tolerant, etc. or how they should be more tolerant of others. I don't feel I need to be tolerant or accepting of everything that happens to be labeled kink or bdsm. Not everything labeled such should be.

Also, there is such a thing as being too tolerant or over tolerant and lacking judgement as far as I'm concerned. I am judgemental and intolerant over certain things, bdsm and non and those shoved under the bdsm umbrella to try and make them acceptable, and quite happily so. There are some things that should not be shoved under bdsm to try and make them acceptable and I make no apologies for my view. If there is no way it can be fully consented to by all parties then it ain't kink, or bdsm.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 9

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 12:30:18 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

everyone is judgemental and opinionated. It's human nature. Bdsm doesn't make that any different whatsoever.

Bdsm does not make one more open minded or less judgemental.

People into bdsm share the same exact traits as the rest of the world.

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 10

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 1:31:46 PM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

its time to come clean

A zen master once gave me the appropriate mantra for your musings:

"It is what it is"

I quit drinking though

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 11

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 2:16:10 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I should hope we all discriminate based on our moral values. Otherwise we would be espousing kidnapping, selling unconsenting minors into a lifelong hell.

Judgment and morals are good things to have. Beyond that, if I'm not interested in short, skinny men sexually that is not the same as me saying they have no right to exist. It simply means what I say, that they don't do it for me.

There's a difference between having preferences and being prejudiced. If I were prejudiced I would say that nobody should ever have sex with a short, skinny man. Since I'm not lobbying to have such unions be made illegal, this is just my preference.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 12

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 2:36:03 PM

VeryNastyDom

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline

Discriminating tastes are one thing, judging is quite different. Of course we all have tastes and preferences, and there is nothing wrong with that. Judging, by my definition, is looking down on someone just because they don't match your preferences.

I can prefer brunettes with small boobs (which I do) but I don't look down on blondes and redheads with ample cleavage (unless I have the right view).

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 13

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 2:47:15 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Who is this we, I never claimed to spout any of that stuff and I never will. I will only speak for myself and what I am, and not what the community is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting, we are just another layer of opions, judgements and vehemence--added to the-- and inclusive of-- existing opinions and judgements.

so here is My methodology: To new people who find our life, to the world when it listens--whether RT or here we do an injustice, we espouse acceptance, openness-, a community--

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 14

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 3:01:21 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Yeah we are humans and still subject to human behavior. I am not an accepting person, but that does not mean I am going to tell someone else how to live their life, unless they ask. This last part pertains to a message board, because people that post often ask for opinions.

I am discriminating, slow to trust, and cynical. So what is the point of your post, other than an observation that has been made many times before, and it is not going to change.

I do not believe anything that is worth doing or having, should be easy. If it were then everyone should have it. If some blasting on a message board bothers someone in their offline life, then it should bother them and they should go the way of the dodo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting, we are just another layer of opions, judgements and vehemence--added to the-- and inclusive of-- existing opinions and judgements.

so here is My methodology: To new people who find our life, to the world when it listens--whether RT or here we do an injustice, we espouse acceptance, openness-, a community--yeah---as long as it is vetted against our individual morals, standards and values. If it isn't, we become defensive or aggressive--"you can't", "you shouldn't", " how could you", " how dare you"... so is our world a new world or just a special interest group that hides the fact that we still judge, based on:

relationship
age
weight
color
beliefs
standards
squeek factor
morals
limits
education
tolerance
experiences
prejudices

etc
etc
etc

We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not...

<grabs a martini and sits back>

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 15

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 3:34:32 PM

cantilena

Posts: 224
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting, we are just another layer of opions, judgements and vehemence--added to the-- and inclusive of-- existing opinions and judgements.

so here is My methodology: To new people who find our life, to the world when it listens--whether RT or here we do an injustice, we espouse acceptance, openness-, a community--yeah---as long as it is vetted against our individual morals, standards and values. If it isn't, we become defensive or aggressive--"you can't", "you shouldn't", " how could you", " how dare you"... so is our world a new world or just a special interest group that hides the fact that we still judge, based on:

relationship
age
weight
color
beliefs
standards
squeek factor
morals
limits
education
tolerance
experiences
prejudices

etc
etc
etc

We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not...

<grabs a martini and sits back>

Just a special interest group.

I agree with the poster above who said the kink community is no more or less tolerant than any other cross-section of people.

I would go on to say that I additionally believe it doesn't have a responsibility to be otherwise simply because it is 'alternative'. I tried to make that point a few days ago on the tail end of the "Community of Ridiculous Expectations" thread.

How you or I choose to live our lives individually and how we choose to go about treating those around us individually are very different matters than attempting to impose those choices on any greater "community".

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 16

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 3:43:05 PM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline

Funny, i have found that most often i am called judgemental when my opinion does not match that of the person looking for input! A case of don't ask if you don't want to know.

If people are looking for validation of their points of view, maybe they should be honest and open enough, with themselves as well as others, and ask for it outright. Personally i am sick of addressing the points in an OP that i have experience of in calm and measured terms, only to be accused of judging the writer themselves because i missed the unwritten plea for validation only!

The sooner people get their heads around the fact that the wider world does not revolve around them, that folk around here and elsewhere are not mind readers able to get to the heart of their dilemma with only a couple of sentences of vague information, and recognise the fact that some can do nothing but criticise and judge no matter what the question, maybe things would change for the better. Some hope.

Like i say, a judgement is only a negative opinion, as far as those who cannot handle constructive criticism are concerned , and i doubt if that situation will ever change.

_____________________________

pink...
Master Andy's emotion...

From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 17

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 4:57:15 PM

OneMoreWaste

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not...

Okay, so if *you* don't think that a prediliction towards BDSM absolves all other prejudices, who is the "we" of whom you are speaking?

Anyone who is completely devoid of moral judgement is dangerous.

_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 18

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 5:01:46 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Judging, by my definition, is looking down on someone just because they don't match your preferences.

quote:

Like i say, a judgement is only a negative opinion, as far as those who cannot handle constructive criticism are concerned , and i doubt if that situation will ever change.

A judgment is an opinion, we judge something as ‘good’ or ‘bad’. I don’t understand where it got its negative connotation, or why we use it only in the context of disapproval.
Just sayin’……..

< Message edited by catize -- 2/28/2009 5:03:03 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to VeryNastyDom)

Post #: 19

RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 5:17:36 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Being into bdsm doesn't make people, better, stronger, faster, cuter, less judgemental, or more tolerant than others. BDSM is not Utopia. Same kinds of people into bdsm that aren't into it. I shake my head when I see some posts in various boards and groups saying how they thought bdsmers were more tolerant, etc. or how they should be more tolerant of others. I don't feel I need to be tolerant or accepting of everything that happens to be labeled kink or bdsm. Not everything labeled such should be.

Also, there is such a thing as being too tolerant or over tolerant and lacking judgement as far as I'm concerned. I am judgemental and intolerant over certain things, bdsm and non and those shoved under the bdsm umbrella to try and make them acceptable, and quite happily so. There are some things that should not be shoved under bdsm to try and make them acceptable and I make no apologies for my view. If there is no way it can be fully consented to by all parties then it ain't kink, or bdsm.

I think this post sums up my feelings fairly well.

Just because I like doing things a little different than my elderly, vanilla neighbours, doesn't make me a better person than they are. Because another person likes some of the more kinky things in life I like doesn't make them as good a person as my neighbours are or worse. Just a bit different. I don't have to like or agree with another random kinky person. Just because I am kinky does't mean I have to accept every kinky thing another kinky person does. I don't and I won't.

I am judgemental. I make judgements on all sorts of things every day. It is how I make decisions, on everything from how to price an order at work to whether or not I will extend a new customer credit. I looked at the cat and made a judgement that he needs to be on a new, weight control, cat food. I read emails I receive on here and judge whether or not the person writing them is a moron or not. Whether or not to write them back or not. Making judgements is not a bad thing. It is a human thing.

It is how we conduct ourselves in making and letting those judgements be known, that matters.

As for opinions, I usually don't voice them unless they are asked for. The people in my life know the risk that involves but they also know they are going to get the truth.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 2/28/2009 5:21:36 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 20

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