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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 2/28/2009 10:55:02 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		As others have said, rendering an opinion is rendering judgment.   I think the differing opinions here are healthy.  They cause me to think and reflect upon my own opinions, and sometimes even change them.  I don't always appreciate the way certain opinions are expressed, but different personalities keep things interesting, and last I checked, I don't rule the world...yet.

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(in reply to CatdeMedici)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 2:14:32 AM   
chezzy71


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		We should all hold ourselves to a hugher standard.The problem is,we hardly ever do when it comes to opinions.There are certainly elements of this lifestyle i could care less about.Of those elements,when someone posts and wishes to hear a response,i will give it if i feel up to the task and be pretty straight about it.My response for things i don't care for almost always is..not my cup of tea but to each their own.Well i can only say that so many times when the same topic or topics are dredged up over and over again.It does seem to get under my skin when i see this and of course have the right not to say a word.However,when someone else reads a post and starts to bash the individual that posted it..well you did ask for a response didn't you??My point is the other party is in non-bash mode if you will and then it all becomes a fight and a ton of conviluded BS.I thought especially in this community that we were supposed to be more tolerant of each other.And if any of you have been at this before there was the internet please step forward.Some of us here have fought the good fight over time for the better of everyone else interested.It doesn't make us better or smarter,but it certainly can give others a perspective that perhaps no one else can give.I am at an age now where i wish for the tug of war to end...bottom line..can't we all just get along??

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 6:31:04 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Can't we all get along?

I assume you are kidding.

In all honesty Chezzy, there are a few personalities, even on here, I do not WANT to get along with. I am not going to pretend otherwise.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 6:48:24 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 bottom line..can't we all just get along?? 


It's a nice sentiment, but not something that is likely to happen. 

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(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 9:02:50 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Can't we all get along?

there are a few personalities, even on here, I do not WANT to get along with. I am not going to pretend otherwise.


Count me in on this statement.
 
There are kinks i hear about and go "wtf ".
 
No we are not all created equal and not everybody wins at tee ball either.
 
Does that mean i am against others having their own variety of kink? No, as long as it is between consenting adults. Just don't ask me to approve or participate.
 
Then again, that statement  goes for a whole lot more in life than just kink too.

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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 12:10:40 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:


I could care less what another person does. That does not mean however, that I have no opinion on it or that I will not judge the person according to my own standards. I do however, accept that I have no right to tell another how to live. Only they have that choice. I understand and accept this.


I agree with this.

I've never thought being kinky should/would make me more open-minded any more than being a woman or being white.  It's just a part of me.  I think because of the environment in which I grew up, I got so tired of hearing people say 'how could she' or 'you shouldn't' that I was left with no desire to do it myself.  I do however have a boat load of opinions. ;)


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(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 1:59:09 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		I have to go by my own experiences CatdeMedici
I been treated well here. I have found the posts educational and gave me a lot to think about. I am new to BDSM, and my age is old, and have found neither to be a problem. I know not everything I read is for me, and this is how I discern, but do not judge others for what they do.

oceanwynds

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/1/2009 4:04:12 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Being into bdsm doesn't make people, better, stronger, faster, cuter, less judgemental, or more tolerant than others. BDSM is not Utopia. Same kinds of people into bdsm that aren't into it. I shake my head when I see some posts in various boards and groups saying how they thought bdsmers were more tolerant, etc. or how they should be more tolerant of others. I don't feel I need to be tolerant or accepting of everything that happens to be labeled kink or bdsm. Not everything labeled such should be.



Ditto... thanks Sassy for saving my fingers some typing


*grins* Glad I could be of assistance Knight.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/2/2009 2:32:20 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind


quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici





It's a personal thing, you know, CatdeMedici. You can't get the herd to tell you you're okay. Only you know whether you judge people as a way to level them down so that you can better deal with your own feelings of powerlessness, inferiority, inadequacy or insecurity.



You know, I think you are bang on here--not just in BDSM but in life in general---we as humans tend to feel if we demean someone, it raises us up in--our eyes, our families eyes--we somehow feel vindicated especially if we hear the "woot woot" of people who agree.
 
Yet  in this WIIWD, it should be more accepting one would think and yet, as you so eloquently stated, we still stand on those little portable pedestals.
 
 


While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I look at things a little differently.  What exactly constitutes "acceptance"?

I hate sushi.  Lots of people love sushi.  Lots of people seem to think that eating it makes them somehow more cultured, more cool.  They go out of their way to tell me about their sushi experiences.  I hate sushi.  I have been peer-pressured into trying sushi and I still hate it.  It makes me gag.  I understand what sushi is.  I am tolerant of sushi bars, sushi section at the grocery store and I accept that others love sushi.  But why in the world do I have to love it myself in order to be considered tolerant or accepting?  And if its not sushi it would be deer meat and I hate that too no matter how many times people tell me I just haven't had it cooked right.  Obviously no one can cook it right cuz I always hate it.  So what is acceptance?  If I accept that sushi or vennison is okay for others why can they accept that it is not okay for me?  Do I actually have to eat the swill before I can be considered truely accepting? 

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(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/2/2009 8:04:12 AM   
Coldwarrior57


Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline 		A lot of people in this life style are hypocrites.
You see it in the other posts,
There are just a few that are accepting of others view points.
But then there are a lot that sure  in the heck want every one to accept their view point.
I have been very disappointed in reading the postings of others.
But I guess they just believe they are ENLIGHTEND.
And I am sure they believe that they are accepting and understanding.
I don’t know if that answers your q or what but that’s how I see it.



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(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/2/2009 8:15:35 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think that any sub-group is free of prejudices, just the opposite, in fact.  That 'one "twue" way' mentality is oft-grabbed.  I don't do PC; I think it is just veiled evidence of intolerance.  Do I have prejudices.  You betcha.  Am I willing to get to know people on their own merits.  You betcha.  Are there still prejudicial limits that I have that I choose not to cross.  Indeed I do. 
  Davan

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(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/2/2009 8:21:38 AM   
Coldwarrior57


Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I don't think that any sub-group is free of prejudices, just the opposite, in fact.  That 'one "twue" way' mentality is oft-grabbed.  I don't do PC; I think it is just veiled evidence of intolerance.  Do I have prejudices.  You betcha.  Am I willing to get to know people on their own merits.  You betcha.  Are there still prejudicial limits that I have that I choose not to cross.  Indeed I do. 
Davan
PC. that is code for lie,  I have no tolerance of the PC crowd.
We have our prejudices I agree, but I have alot more respect for some one that can look you in the eye and say I dont like you because of the color of your skin VS some one that you think is your friend, untill you really need a friend and then they arent there.
I preffer Straight honest truth.


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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/2/2009 8:43:10 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		What cracks me up the very most are those that rush in screaming bloody murder about non pc stuff, bellowing about how terrible, negative and judgemental someone is. Then proceeds to make a huge fool of themself by conveying the very same type of behaviour, but usually to the tenth degree, towards the first offender/s. And then defend themself, by saying they are defending whatever pc issue they took offense too.

A house of mirrors is a fragile house.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Coldwarrior57)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/12/2009 6:59:17 AM   
GoodgirlFind


Posts: 55
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind


quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici




Like redmagic1 or lordandmaster (domiguy) [are they all the same??] once said and was spot on, not all are alike.

Sure the vast majority of people make evaluations and opinions about things, events, or people. I will suggest however, placing judgments against a person with as a purposeful means to level them below you so that you can feel yourself better is passive malice wrapped up in egoism and intolerance and an altogether different sort of judgement.

It's a personal thing, you know, CatdeMedici. You can't get the herd to tell you you're okay. Only you know whether you judge people as a way to level them down so that you can better deal with your own feelings of powerlessness, inferiority, inadequacy or insecurity.



Just in speaking for myself I think this thread reaches out for a similar question of tolerance in the thread going on now by utahsteel "why aren't you more like me"? The thread was something that really struck me hard and it's a very personal subject with me because I grew up with a very prejudiced opinion against my family . I come from a fundamental baptist church going family and the thing is I am not myself a follower of this same denomination. I did try to see what it's about by attending the services and things like that though unfortunately I did not agree with that and other things that were being discussed about on Sunday.The biggest conflict for me was their insistence that I would go to hell for not being "saved". That TO ME is the most craziest thing I ever heard of and I used to look down at them for believing in something which I thought was foolish. I judged them as being stupid people and could never even try to see their pov or accept it.


I used to believe that acceptance meant I was condoning and agreeing with my family's choices. Instead I learned acceptance required me to release my rigid and demanding (and often, unreasonable) expectations of how other people should live their lives. It's one thing to have an opinion against someone else's opinions or behaviors and its another thing to down the person on a personal basis which is what I wrote above.

I think intolerant people who judge other people on a personal level rather than judging another persons actions have inner low self-esteem issues. And I think people who aren't tolerant of other people are just defensive and frightful. And those that constantly find a fault in other people are just trying to lower the person to feel better about him or her self. Fault finders I think are in a continuous state of irritation because projection and denial are unhealthy defense mechanisms. I don't know how good it can be for your sense of peace if you constantly see faults in the people all around yourself. Its got to change who you are over time maybe.

(in reply to GoodgirlFind)
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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/12/2009 8:25:19 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, its time to come clean: we aren't open and accepting, we are just another layer of opions, judgements and vehemence--added to the-- and inclusive of-- existing opinions and judgements.
 
so here is My methodology: To new people who find our life,  to the world when it listens--whether RT or here we do an injustice, we espouse acceptance, openness-, a community--yeah---as long as it is vetted against our individual morals, standards and values. If it isn't, we become defensive or aggressive--"you can't", "you shouldn't", " how could you", " how dare you"... so is our world a new world or just a special interest group that  hides the fact that we still judge, based on:
 
relationship
age
weight
color
beliefs
standards
squeek factor
morals
limits
education
tolerance
experiences
prejudices
 
etc
etc
etc
 
We think that because we have this proclivity it is all absolving of other prejudices- is it? I think not...
 
<grabs a martini and sits back>
 
 
 
 
 

Since people have already taken care of the fact that judgments do not automatically mean negative, I'm going to go with something else.

Problem number one with the little list is that no one has the right to say that My personal preferences have no weight in how I conduct My affairs.  Each and every time that I participate in anything related to BDSM, I'm allowed to exercise those preferences which I base on My personal standards and judgments.  That goes from everything to who I chose to socialize with at an event to who I'm going to make play dates with and how we're going to play.  That may sound like an elitist or snobbish attitude, but let's keep in mind that I'm a Dominant woman, not a government agency who has to treat every one on an equal basis. 

Now, I'm going to explain why this is preference, rather than prejudice.  It's because anyone that I might have a preference not to engage with is still absolutely able to be at the same table with Me at a munch, can play in the same play space as I'm playing, and can play however they chose, within the dungeon rules.  The only thing that I'm stopping anyone from doing is having interaction with Me, not inclusion as a whole.  Compared to the bigger picture of everything that is involved in kink, I happen to think I'm rather insignificant.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 3/12/2009 8:26:16 PM >

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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/12/2009 9:57:59 PM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		Why should BDSM'ers be any different than the rest of the world?  These aren't aliens from a different world, they are the same people that populate the planet. 

I talk to about 70-75 people a day, and every time I deal with a person, I pass judements.  I judge their issue, their voice, their accent, and their general ability to communicate.  Being unable to see these people, it is by these judgements that I decide how to handle them.  Is it fair?  No, but it's reality.  I am going to be more down home with the good ol southern boy, and more formal with the east coast debutante.  Anyway you look at it, I am judging people based on outside standards and my own view of the world

The S in BDSM does not stand for "smart."

The only thing that BDSM'ers might be more open about is the discussion of sexual preferences, not necessarily the acts themselves.  This isn't a super secret "hot girls club" or hooded cloak and dagger coven.  It's the guy in the car next to you on the freeway who cuts you off then flips you off when you honk, the barista who made your mocha double light sugar free fuckaccino, and the doctor who did your pap smear. (I'm convinced they are all sadists, anyway.)  It's the black guy, the fat chick, the old dude, and the ugly girl.  We don't get an automatic opening of the heart and mind just because we're kinky.  That's just stupid. 

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RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/13/2009 5:49:25 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

so is our world a new world or just a special interest group


Not only do i think we (whoever that may be) are not a new world order (as fun as that erotica lit can be), I don't think we even begin to count as a special interest group either. The collective 'we' doesn't have a special, common interest. That is clear from the banter on the boards as well as the factions at sex-positive marches and public events and the diversity of interests on profiles here and elsewhere.

At best, we are a loose coalition of special interest groups that associate and interact on a semi-regular basis and attempt to practice tolerance and acceptance. Some of the individuals in some of the separate special interest groups do actually believe in tolerance or acceptance. Some don't. Some individuals actively reject acceptance or tolerance and do their best to differentiate themselves from the other special interest groups collectively called BDSM by both the host culture and the special interest groups.

To try to be other than what we really are would be hypocritical and counter productive to the one idea that we do perhaps all hold; that we, each individual, has the right to pursue sexual and inter-personal happiness the way we see fittest to each individual one of us. And I have to ask why we want any form of conformity in a group of people that chose not to conform.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Judgements, Opinions, Aspersions and Acceptance - 3/13/2009 9:13:09 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to associate the word "judgmental" with fault-finding — fault finding with the intent to level the other beneath you.

I look at the motivation and intent behind the judging.  Everyone has opinions and we all make assessments, but when we assess people out of hostile condemnation or with the intent to level the other down it turns the assessment into something else. It's not about thinking a southern or urban accent sounds funny, it's about thinking the PERSON with the accent is [fill in the blank].

Fault finding is getting personal with the person you are finding fault with and it's done in a judgmental, one-upmanship spirit.



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Profile   Post #: 58
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