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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 12:53:19 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Its the poor who tend to be larger. A good gourmet meal is expensive, where as a fast food meal is cheap. I think perhaps poverty breeds stress and food pacifies and relaxes. Its a drug and the vendors are the drug pushers.

One of the reasons for the poor being more obese is simply a matter of location.

They do not have easy access to fresh food, they are literally surrounded by fast food places.

If you don't own a car you have to haul groceries for your family by bus or by foot.

"The increase in obesity and disparities in obesity and related chronic diseases across racial and ethnic and income groups have led researchers to focus on the social and environmental factors that influence dietary intake. The question guiding the current study was whether all communities have equal access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy dietary choices."

Just Google 'poverty fast food' (as I just now did) and you get a plethora of studies showing the problem.

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Post #: 21

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 12:56:35 PM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Its the poor who tend to be larger. A good gourmet meal is expensive, where as a fast food meal is cheap. I think perhaps poverty breeds stress and food pacifies and relaxes. Its a drug and the vendors are the drug pushers.

One of the reasons for the poor being more obese is simply a matter of location.

They do not have easy access to fresh food, they are literally surrounded by fast food places.

If you don't own a car you have to haul groceries for your family by bus or by foot.

"The increase in obesity and disparities in obesity and related chronic diseases across racial and ethnic and income groups have led researchers to focus on the social and environmental factors that influence dietary intake. The question guiding the current study was whether all communities have equal access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy dietary choices."

Just Google 'poverty fast food' (as I just now did) and you get a plethora of studies showing the problem.

In my area, I noticed that the gas in areas thought of as ghettos is more expensive than mor affluent neighborhoods also.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 3/1/2009 12:57:01 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 1:04:54 PM

submaleinzona

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I'm not sure why it is, but when I was younger, I used to have a much smaller appetite. But others, particularly my grandparents, thought that I should eat more food. Sometimes, I felt as if they were stuffing food down my throat against my will. They kept saying, "You're not eating enough." It didn't matter if I was full or didn't like what was being served. When I got to my teen years, my appetite got bigger.

Some people actually complain that restaurants have skimpy portions, so they prefer all-you-can-eat style buffets. I don't know if "all you can eat" is a uniquely American institution, or if other countries have it as well. I also wonder the same thing about hot dog eating contests. It staggers the imagination, with all these people madly stuffing hot dogs into their mouths.

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Post #: 23

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 1:05:14 PM

YoursMistress

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Thanks to all of the posters here, sharing some interesting ideas. I believe that the food volume problem is largely tied to the dearth of actual nutrients in processed food itself. Because the body is starving for nutrients, I believe that people crave more and more of the calorie-rich, nutrient-poor fast foods and comfort foods. Since I changed my diet to include more live foods and less processed ones, I find that I don't always need a huge platter of food to satisfy me. I end up eating larger numbers of smaller meals with great success in my overall health.

The second issue, which several touched on with regard to the French, is the speed question. My experience in France and French colonies is that a meal is something enjoyed over a relatively long period of time, and may be the sole entertainment for the evening. In America, we tend to want to hurriedly choke down a meal so that we may proceed to the next activity. I believe that this is why the French diet consisting of small quantities of rich foods eaten over long periods of time is more successful.

yours

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As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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Post #: 24

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 2:23:51 PM

MarsBonfire

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It's not in the constitution, per se, but you could consider it to be a part of the "Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" phrase. I'm sure if you look further into the interpretation of that final part, there's something about a "right to keep and bear burgers, which shall not be infringed upon..."

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Post #: 25

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 2:27:35 PM

Irishknight

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Bear burgers? Fantastic!!!!! That sounds yummy. Of course it could lead to a new and dangerous profession: bear farmer.

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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:02:08 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

My experience in France and French colonies is that a meal is something enjoyed over a relatively long period of time, and may be the sole entertainment for the evening.

The real matter with the French and food is that they view food as an art form. It's very cultural: food is a national currency in France; words/books/newspapers are a national currency in England. Some nations don't place the same importance on food because their focus is elsewhere.

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Post #: 27

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:24:31 PM

couldbemage

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Its the poor who tend to be larger. A good gourmet meal is expensive, where as a fast food meal is cheap. I think perhaps poverty breeds stress and food pacifies and relaxes. Its a drug and the vendors are the drug pushers.
One of the reasons for the poor being more obese is simply a matter of location. They do not have easy access to fresh food, they are literally surrounded by fast food places. If you don't own a car you have to haul groceries for your family by bus or by foot. "The increase in obesity and disparities in obesity and related chronic diseases across racial and ethnic and income groups have led researchers to focus on the social and environmental factors that influence dietary intake. The question guiding the current study was whether all communities have equal access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy dietary choices." Just Google 'poverty fast food' (as I just now did) and you get a plethora of studies showing the problem.

Poverty doesn't always limit access to fresh food. Not if you are latino. Latinos defy the statistics for america as a whole, and are much healthier relative to economic status that any other ethnic group.

If you hang out in latino areas around LA it's pretty obvious why. Mini marts have real produce sections, and there are truck markets full of produce. Meaning a truck converted to a mini mobile grocery story.

In mixed neighborhoods grocery shopping is funny; white people have the cart full of cheap frozen dinners and latinos have meat and veggies.

As for restaurants, if a meal is 25, then 1/3 the food would cost 23. Most of the cost isn't from the raw materials.

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Post #: 28

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:31:33 PM

YoursMistress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The real matter with the French and food is that they view food as an art form. It's very cultural: food is a national currency in France; words/books/newspapers are a national currency in England. Some nations don't place the same importance on food because their focus is elsewhere.

There is a similarity here to Japanese cuisine, also with an emphasis on presentation and quality. Note that in highly affluent areas, such as Silicon Valley and, perhaps to a lesser extent, Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez wine regions, there is a concentration of artisanal foods and cuisine that caters to a lighter eating crowd.

The "American: influence of being able to produce a "similar" product faster, cheaper and in greater quantities is marketed to the larger demographic of lower income. Higher income levels can afford the higher quality product.

yours

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As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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Post #: 29

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:33:44 PM

Aynne88

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I'm sorry, but that simply is incorrect. I googled this and found that actually most sites have Latinos at a higher end proportionately of obesity than other ethnic groups in the US, with Asians being by far the least likely to suffer from obesity.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17875273

"Obesity has reached epidemic levels, with nearly two-thirds of the U.S. population considered overweight or obese. Latinos have some of the highest rates of overweight, obesity, and sedentary lifestyle. Research from scientifically sound evidence-based interventions to reduce the disproportionate burden of obesity and its associated morbidity and mortality among Latinas is greatly needed."

< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 3/1/2009 3:34:32 PM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:41:28 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

The "American: influence of being able to produce a "similar" product faster, cheaper and in greater quantities is marketed to the larger demographic of lower income. Higher income levels can afford the higher quality product.

yours

Any religious influence on food in the US? In England, the Puritan shadow has cast a long shadow - plain food was seen as God's food (hence vegetables boiled and not seasoned). It's been a long time since this has been what you could call a religious country, but the influence remains.

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Post #: 31

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 3:42:48 PM

kittinSol

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Boiled cabbage and jellied eel, anyone

?

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Post #: 32

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 4:02:02 PM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Any religious influence on food in the US? In England, the Puritan shadow has cast a long shadow - plain food was seen as God's food (hence vegetables boiled and not seasoned). It's been a long time since this has been what you could call a religious country, but the influence remains.

We have a lot of influences on our food traditions here. Name a type of cuisine, and you can find it in even the smallest of cities nationwide. When folks mention the French and their dietery habits, I think of New Orleans. It probably has more French influence on cuisine than any American city. It's also one of the fattest cities. Of course, it's also unbelievably hot and humid year round. It's not a place that invites folks to get outside and exercise.

Likewise, I've noticed the cities with healthier people tend to have milder, temperate climates. We have good food here, and even poor people don't have to rely on fast food. I know all about the "food deserts" in big cities, and it's part of the problem. But speaking as someone that lives in one of the poorest states, with a higher percentage of fatties......everyone here has a car. We're an agricultural state, so fresh produce can be found. The problem is not simple enough to blame on one thing. Lots of reasons can be found. We don't have nuclear families where mom stays at home and prepares large, healthy meals anymore. We don't work in labor intensive jobs anymore. We do have cheaper, easier access to junk food, red meat, etc. that my grandparents couldn't dream of in their youth.

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Post #: 33

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 4:03:43 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
One of the reasons for the poor being more obese is simply a matter of location. They do not have easy access to fresh food, they are literally surrounded by fast food places. If you don't own a car you have to haul groceries for your family by bus or by foot. "The increase in obesity and disparities in obesity and related chronic diseases across racial and ethnic and income groups have led researchers to focus on the social and environmental factors that influence dietary intake. The question guiding the current study was whether all communities have equal access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy dietary choices." Just Google 'poverty fast food' (as I just now did) and you get a plethora of studies showing the problem.

quote:

Poverty doesn't always limit access to fresh food. Not if you are latino. Latinos defy the statistics for america as a whole, and are much healthier relative to economic status that any other ethnic group.

If you hang out in latino areas around LA it's pretty obvious why. Mini marts have real produce sections, and there are truck markets full of produce. Meaning a truck converted to a mini mobile grocery story.

In mixed neighborhoods grocery shopping is funny; white people have the cart full of cheap frozen dinners and latinos have meat and veggies.

As for restaurants, if a meal is 25, then 1/3 the food would cost 23. Most of the cost isn't from the raw materials.

I have to disagree with you on this, it may appear that their consumption of vegetables has led to a lower weight category but as a group they are overweight.

"Prevalence of overweight and obesity in Latinos is 73%"
http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/spring03/latino.html
"What factors are associated with obesity among Latinos? First and foremost, poverty. Poverty is the driving force in our culture. Poor people tend to be heavy; rich people, skinny"
"Acculturated Latinos eat more fried foods and less fruit, and Latinos of low socioeconomic status (SES) have fewer low-fat dietary practices. Compared with whites, Latinos eat more servings of meat; Latinos also eat a less varied diet, in general"
"Maternal nutrition knowledge and feeding practices are factors in obesity. So are cultural beliefs like fatalismo, the idea that whatever happens, happens"

At any rate, it is a real problem in the US. Farming itself is shrinking rapidly here, the cost of food and fuel are rising.

Studies have shown that inner cities especially lack access to nutritional food, many kids rely on school food and that is also not a healthy choice but unfortunately is sometimes the only choice.

Edited because I butchered the quoting. Egads. And jeez Aynne I didn't read your post which makes mine totally unnecessary!

< Message edited by camille65 -- 3/1/2009 4:08:47 PM >

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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 4:03:46 PM

SavageFaerie

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Fast reply

I do my best to minimize waste in restaurants.
Burgers are usually those special no frills burgers and I have them strip all but the bread and meat, although I am hopelessly addicted to adding butter on them.
I generally avoid fries because I can not stand anything salty, unless I can catch them before they add it.

If a restaurant has a seniors menu I got straight for it since its smaller portions. I have never bought into the supersized meals, buffets make a huge profit off me because I simply cannot eat large meals nor do I want them. Even if I get stuck paying a higher price I will opt to ask for downsizing all the extras if its the entree I am hungry for. I love restaurants that have al a carte choices.

Plus when I feel full, well I just stop. I have good health and an incredible immune system, eating unhealthy and more than my body needs is just not going to happen.

Gimme a diner over a fast food any day. Went to one Friday and got liver and onions, and was happy as Komoto getting it for a treat. :) and opted for 2 veggies instead of salad.

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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 4:57:55 PM

Aynne88

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No it didn't Camille, yours was actually clearer than mine. Besides, it just proved that great minds think alike.

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

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Post #: 36

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 5:12:24 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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In that case:
I (heart) your brain!

The site I cited, excited me and incited me into citing said site.

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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 5:31:18 PM

MsConception

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I think lots of things come into play here.

A couple of things the french do from my understanding is 1. they generally only eat one large heavy meal per day 2. they eat lots of fresh fruits (don't get me wrong, my understand are two friends I have known for several years from France) 3. Olive oil is their friend 4. Dark red wines with heavy meals (helps with digestion, cholesterol and a couple of other heart related issues...a glass or two with a meal).

As far as the portion sizes I think that restaraunts often put their menu to make sure everyone is happy, afterall if a big hard working man comes into a resaraunt needing a calorie filled meal it is much easier to serve everyone a large meal and those that don't need it can leave some, or take it home for later, or feed it to the dog or whatever, than it is for the big calorie sink to have to order two meals to be satisfied. Unfortunately many of us Americans were raised by parents (at least my generation) who said "you must clean your plates before bed" so it is deeply engrained that we clean our plates, no matter how much food is in front of us. I have just recently gotten to the point where I can push a plate away with food on it.

Another issue, that I was reading about in the last week, was the price difference in highly processed foods, and fresh fruits and veggies. It is much cheaper to go to the store and buy steak fingers than it is to buy fresh chicken breasts to bake or grill, it is much cheaper to buy some fried veggies than it is to make a fresh redleaf lettuce salad with tomatos and maybe cucumber. So basically, especially in this economy quantity is taking presidence over quality. $1.00 menus are at their peak, they are cheap to produce and though terribly unhealthy, they are filling.

And it never seems to matter, if I try to get the jumbo tea with my value meal they always jumbo size the whole thing, really, I want the small fries...I just want a really big glass of tea for the day

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RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 5:40:55 PM

OneMoreWaste

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
I just feel something else has to be driving it. Is it something that causes us to crave and gorge on all things good?

Who *wouldn't* want to gorge on all things good?

The U.S. has millions of acres of farmland, big agribusiness maximizing yeilds, and farm subsidies on top, and so our food is inexpensive. When I traveled in Europe I couldn't believe how much I had to pay for meals that barely took the edge off my hunger! Fuck that noise

Pleasure is good. Tasty food is pleasure. And the only thing better than pleasure is more pleasure.

One thing to keep in mind with the slender, healthy Asians- statistically, they're also shorter. Every silver lining has a cloud, folx.

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Post #: 39

RE: Why do Americans need such excess? - 3/1/2009 5:44:11 PM

kittinSol

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In France, the focus is on food quality more than on quantity. It's also all about taking your time eating. Most French workers take at least an hour just to eat their lunch; they will frequently have a glass of red wine with this sit-down meal and would shun the thought of a hurriedly swallowed sandwich in front of the computer screen.

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