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Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:01:49 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090303/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_memos


WASHINGTON – The Obama administration threw open the curtain on years of Bush-era secrets Monday, revealing anti-terror memos that claimed exceptional search-and-seizure powers and divulging that the CIA destroyed nearly 100 videotapes of interrogations and other treatment of terror suspects.

The Justice Department released nine legal opinions showing that, following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration determined that certain constitutional rights would not apply during the coming fight. Within two weeks, government lawyers were already discussing ways to wiretap U.S. conversations without warrants.

The Bush administration eventually abandoned many of the legal conclusions, but the documents themselves had been closely held. By releasing them, President Barack Obama continued a house-cleaning of the previous administration's most contentious policies.......................................................................................................................................

The legal memos written by the Bush administration's Office of Legal Counsel show a government grappling with how to wage war on terrorism in a fast-changing world. The conclusion, reiterated in page after page of documents, was that the president had broad authority to set aside constitutional rights.

Fourth Amendment protections against unwarranted search and seizure, for instance, did not apply in the United States as long as the president was combatting terrorism, the Justice Department said in an Oct. 23, 2001, memo.

"First Amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully," Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo wrote, adding later: "The current campaign against terrorism may require even broader exercises of federal power domestically."



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/2/2009 8:11:09 PM >
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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:08:54 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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Status: offline 		John Yoo is a very scary individual. I met him at a lecture and he is almost glacial in demeanor. 

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:16:00 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

John Yoo is a very scary individual. I met him at a lecture and he is almost glacial in demeanor. 


I think they all were pretty scary in trying to put forth the idea that the President can override the Constitution.

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:16:40 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Status: offline 		I'm willing to give Obama's side "a chance".

Let's see how it works out.

I'll get back to you in a few years.

Firm

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:19:26 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

John Yoo is a very scary individual. I met him at a lecture and he is almost glacial in demeanor. 


I think they all were pretty scary in trying to put forth the idea that the President can override the Constitution.


Yeah.

Lincoln was a real bastard.

He actually did it (Pretty much destroy the Union, from what I understand.), while Bush et al only discussed it.

Firm

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:25:28 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Yeah.

Lincoln was a real bastard.

He actually did it (Pretty much destroy the Union, from what I understand.), while Bush et al only discussed it.

Firm


What Lincoln did was wrong as well, and Bush didn't just discuss it but did the same, depending on your interpretation of the law.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/2/2009 8:26:00 PM >

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:45:00 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'm willing to give Obama's side "a chance".

Let's see how it works out.

I'll get back to you in a few years.

Firm


Awful nice of you, to hold judgment for a while about how Obama is doing fixing the mess that Bush left him.


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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 8:49:24 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Can anyone imagine the howls from the right wing if it was a Clinton era memo that said "Second Amendment rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully?"

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 9:27:59 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Yeah.

Lincoln was a real bastard.

He actually did it (Pretty much destroy the Union, from what I understand.), while Bush et al only discussed it.

Firm


What Lincoln did was wrong as well, and Bush didn't just discuss it but did the same, depending on your interpretation of the law.


Thank God Lincoln is dead, and Bush is out of office.  The last thing this country needs and Americans want is a President who works every angle he can to weed out terrorism and protect the homeland. At least now we have a President who will protect our constitutional rights, raise taxes, strengthen the unions and get their assistance in weeding out those corporations who give jobs to people who cast secret ballots to keep out the unions, and focus on changing the healthcare for 300,000,000 Americans to a U.K. type National Healthcare System,

Can't wait for Obama and his posse to release or leak even more details of Bush/Cheney attacks on our Constitution, preferably to the NY Times which is going bankrupt and could use the readership. 
Getting myself in shape now so I can come out behind the empty register of my store and go out west to build windmills to power the country and wifey is going out to Rodeo Drive to grind and repave the roads in Beverly Hills, a  $10 million "shovel ready" project in the Stimulus Package.
"Happy Days are Here Again!" 

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:15:32 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		You`re laboring under the faults notion that torture works and is productive.

It`s neither.

It`s obvious why the tapes were burned.To hide evidence of wrong doing.It`s the only reason evidence is destroyed.

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:18:23 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		       I saw this article this afternoon, RML.  There is definitely some stuff in there that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  Those were some scary, crazy days.  First the attacks on New York and Washington, then the weaponized anthrax showing up a week later.  You bet you your ass people were talking about every aspect of the emergency powers of the President.  They have those.  You understand that, right?  That a President, in time of crisis can order anything, up to and including a nationwide declaration of martial law, or killing all life on the planet by means of nuclear war?  Are we clear about that part?

     What sort of powers Lincoln exercised have already been touched on (tromping the First Amendment is a bit hard for me to swallow, but I suppose he did what he had to do).  We have FDR locking the Japanese up in concentration camps.  I'm sure there are many more examples of a President wielding the big stick that aren't leaping to mind.  The Whiskey Rebellion.  We can't leave out the Whiskey Rebellion.

    If all you want here is a Bush Bash, have fun with that. 

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/2/2009 10:23:07 PM >

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:22:41 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The ends never justify the means.

That`s the way the soviets,China,and most other tyrannies operate.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/2/2009 10:23:40 PM >

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:29:04 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Are you calling Lincoln a commie, O59? 

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:35:56 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		bush claims that the 4th amendment,habeas corpus,the Constitution itself were subordinate to the president`s power,... if he was to successfully fight the war(s).

lol

He wasn`t successful.



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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 10:35:57 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      I saw this article this afternoon, RML.  There is definitely some stuff in there that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  Those were some scary, crazy days.  First the attacks on New York and Washington, then the weaponized anthrax showing up a week later.  You bet you your ass people were talking about every aspect of the emergency powers of the President.  They have those.  You understand that, right?  That a President, in time of crisis can order anything, up to and including a nationwide declaration of martial law, or killing all life on the planet by means of nuclear war?  Are we clear about that part?


No, we are absolutely not clear about that part.

A President does NOT, in any circumstance, have "emergency powers" to override the Constitution.

There have been abuses of that, but that does not mean it was within the law.

And yes, what Lincoln and FDR did was unconstitutional, the same as with Bush, they bullied a weak Congress who looked the other way.


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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 11:03:18 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

There have been abuses of that, but that does not mean it was within the law.



         Bingo.  You got it exactly right.  The difference between having the legal authority to do something, and the power to make it happen anyway (the courts can sort out later).

       Look at the dates.  Two weeks after 9/11, a month before Patriot.  Yeah.  There is some crazy, tyrannical shit getting talked about.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 11:15:05 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     I saw this article this afternoon, RML.  There is definitely some stuff in there that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  Those were some scary, crazy days.  First the attacks on New York and Washington, then the weaponized anthrax showing up a week later.  You bet you your ass people were talking about every aspect of the emergency powers of the President.  They have those.  You understand that, right?  That a President, in time of crisis can order anything, up to and including a nationwide declaration of martial law, or killing all life on the planet by means of nuclear war?  Are we clear about that part?


No, we are absolutely not clear about that part.

A President does NOT, in any circumstance, have "emergency powers" to override the Constitution.

There have been abuses of that, but that does not mean it was within the law.

And yes, what Lincoln and FDR did was unconstitutional, the same as with Bush, they bullied a weak Congress who looked the other way.




This is what he`s talking about.

And what defines tyranny.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 11:33:05 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Yeah.

Lincoln was a real bastard.

He actually did it (Pretty much destroy the Union, from what I understand.), while Bush et al only discussed it.

Firm


What Lincoln did was wrong as well, and Bush didn't just discuss it but did the same, depending on your interpretation of the law.
And yet in Lincolns case the very existance of the Republic was in the balance.The Union as we now know it would,in all probability,not exist if Lincoln had not chosen to violate the Constitution in order to preserve the Union

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/2/2009 11:57:25 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And yet in Lincolns case the very existance of the Republic was in the balance.The Union as we now know it would,in all probability,not exist if Lincoln had not chosen to violate the Constitution in order to preserve the Union


Mike, I'm not trying to deride Lincoln or FDR.  They were two of our greatest Presidents, but they both overstepped their bounds.

Whether it was justified or not, their actions set the stage for Bush to decide he was, well, the Decider, and he didn't need to listen to any of that constitutional nonsense.

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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 12:03:43 AM   
VanessaChaland


Posts: 362
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Status: offline 		No real surprises right? Any sane person knew he was the most unpatriotic lunatic sadistic asshole the US has ever seen. Maybe we will eventually make inroads into the entire Bush Cabal being charged with war crimes.

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