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Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:06:59 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		You hear and read it all the time and I have even said it, “It makes me happy to please him”. As a slave in my relationship this is the case most of the time. However there are times when it doesn’t please me to do what he wants. There are times that I just want to ask him “what about what I want!!”

In another post my Lord talked about things that a submissive does for their dominant that they are passionate, indifferent or tolerant of and that there needs to be a balance for the submissive to be fulfilled. Depending on my stress levels, I find that the things I am indifferent doing can become things I just tolerate. It is in these times that I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter.

You hear it all the time, but I have to say that it doesn’t always make me happy to do what he wants. In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail.

Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there?


Knight’s kyra

*wonders if I am going to get flamed for not being a “real” submissive


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:15:11 PM   
JoeBlack


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I think it is a matter of perception,your point of view colors you thoughts and emotions. Yes you are human,and you and your Dom should discuss what each wants to experience. TPE is only good if there is open communication,otherwise resentment takes root.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:20:07 PM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail.


I think that everyone, at one time or another, entertained the same romantic notion about what submission and the lifestyle is all about. And I believe that at one time, everyone came out of a relationship with less than romantic memories of what it REALLY is about. Yes, sometimes we paint this oh so pretty picture about what it really means to be owned by someone...and conviently forget to mention the every day aspects of what it really means.

Can we say romantic fantasy collides head on with harsh reality? LOL

As for other myths, there are probably so many out there...some I even entertained when I was brand new, and some that I still do entertain :) My favorite though was always the one that said

A dominant or master is one who you can always count on to do the right thing.

And while it does hold some truth...it often brings about the false idea that they are incapable of doing wrong...somehow above the human frailities that plague us all lol.



_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:21:37 PM   
Hallittlelolita


Posts: 253
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		i understand exactly what you said there it is like We serve our Master's and we get frustrated because They want to do what they want to do and nothing what we want to do. Yeah, i totally get it, like you know we do stuff for Them and They cant return the favor and say thanks you know. i know exactly what you mean but i am afraid of speaking my mind because i am afraid i will get flamed by somebody on here.

Sincerely Master Hal's lil cumslut slavegirl andie

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:27:56 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

It is in these times that I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter.


I know the feeling. However, for most that classify themselves as submissives, their submission is a deeply rooted part of their lives. Of course you get the wonderful, glowing experiences but more often you get the, "Crap. My head hurts and I just don't feel like doing this right now," or the ennui of a typical day. BDSM, like the rest of the things we do, is just life. We're not going to want to do what master wants all the time, the same way we don't want to go to work all the time (no matter how much we love our jobs), but it doesn't make us any less submissive. It simply makes us human.


quote:

I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail.


Honestly, I think it is setting people up to fail. Don't be annoyed with yourself, though, it's a very natural thing to want to be better or do better for your partner. Just don't be too hard on yourself.

quote:

Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there?


As unpopular as this belief may be, I'm going to share something that I hold as true: It's impossible to be the perfect sub, mentally, spiritually, and physically. The perfect submissive is a myth. You can be a great sub, you can be the closest damn thing to an angel that ever touched earth, but no one is a perfect sub. That's why expecting yourself to be perfect and think perfect thoughts is setting yourself up for failure. Instead, expect to be the best you can be and know that it's normal to not enjoy particular activities.

Another myth is that those heinous McDonald's Chicken Sandwiches are actually as good as they make them look on TV. They really taste like crap. It's a huge conspiracy to make people eat the nasty shit that comes out from under those golden arches. Oh, and fruit and yogurt salad from Mickey D's? Right. It's about two bucks cheaper (and a lot fresher) to go to the grocery store and pick some up.

quote:

*wonders if I am going to get flamed for not being a “real” submissive


I certainly hope not. Anyone who does is demonstrating an instance of the pot calling the kettle black.




< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 1/21/2006 3:49:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 3:40:17 PM   
windy135


Posts: 437
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		Great post. I consider myself to be a sexual submissive but I do find great pleasure in serving others. Whether it be cleaning the house top to bottom for a good frined of mine, packing his lunch, cleaning all his bed linen (because its so nice to sleep in a clean bed). I do these things because I find great pleasure in helping and serving him. But I couldn't handle it being expected of me. I don't want that stress in my life. This post helped me understand that some slaves and other submissives get annoyed with all they are expected to do. I wondered how they could handle it, all the time. How hard you must work.. thanks so much for sharing.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 4:28:49 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I have had submissives who have come to me and say that they wished submission for them was as natural as it seems to come for me. I just have to laugh that anyone could even get that perception. Submission is not easy….sometimes it is downright hard and you really have to work at it, no matter how much it is an intrinsic part of your personality. There are many times that you just plain don’t feel like being submissive…at least in a fleeting sort of way. Especially if you are doing this every single second of every single day, through all of the good times, the bad times, the interruptions, the sweet tender moments, and all of the moments when your Master is just plain being an asshole.

This is an excerpt from something that I posted quite some time ago:

Your hands are full of chicken goop because you are right in the middle of preparing dinner....but that is the exact moment he wishes for you to rub his back. You are three entries from being done balancing the checkbook....but that is the exact moment he would like some chocolate cream pie. Your body just this very second got submerged into the warm water of the bath you have been looking forward to all day....but that is the exact moment that he needs you to run up to the store. You are right in the middle of cleaning the oven....but that is the exact moment he needs you to come hold the flashlight. Your ass has just hit the cushion on the couch for the first time in 12 hours.....and that is the exact moment he needs a cold drink. Endless, countless interruptions. To smile through them all takes astronomical levels of devotion.

Now that really just addresses how irritating interruptions can be….it doesn’t even begin to address all of the other things that he may want you to do or do to you that you really just don’t want or are not in the mood for. It doesn’t address the moments when he has been a total prick to be around and you would really just like to tell him to drop dead. It doesn’t address the moments when he calls you from the other room asking you to get something for him that is much closer to him than it is to you….and your very first thought is along the lines of “What…were you born without legs of your own?”.

We are just people…imperfect human beings. But you already said that. Yes, the romantic notion of submission is a myth. Certainly it can and often does have those romantic, fuzzy qualities. But when you are trying to do something…real life….and live it everyday….of course there are going to be moments when it is old, frustrating…even infuriating. Kind of like Chocolate….I LOVE chocolate…but if it was the only thing I was allowed to eat I imagine at some point it wouldn’t be very appetizing.

What I have always done when I am feeling these types of frustrations (after I learned it did no good to kick myself for them) is I use them to refocus myself on the needs that drive me. I have to go back and once again remind myself that this is the life that fulfills me in the long run…the life I chose. It’s kind of like a 401K…..in the short term there are times when you will get a statement and see nothing but loss…you keep putting in and putting in but you are not getting anything back....but it is not a short term program and it is not until you view the long term can you see it’s benefit.


< Message edited by mistoferin -- 1/21/2006 4:29:46 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 4:35:33 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That's about why I don't get all this other shit that floats around here on the boards........The One for instance...I don't even wanna think or write this whole thought thru, so for those of you who cry shame........

Well, mea carpal tunnelus .......

Both sides of this is hard, and I gotta chuckle when everybody FEELS all this ass wipe.

The idea of perfection then, is simply that which fulfills you and is in no otherwise perfect or whole, or serenely pleasant throughout the 3600 minutes in a day...............

Ah fuck it; enough.

LOL,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 4:46:02 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That's about why I don't get all this other shit that floats around here on the boards........The One for instance...I don't even wanna think or write this whole thought thru, so for those of you who cry shame........

Well, mea carpal tunnelus .......

Both sides of this is hard, and I gotta chuckle when everybody FEELS all this ass wipe.

The idea of perfection then, is simply that which fulfills you and is in no otherwise perfect or whole, or serenely pleasant throughout the 3600 minutes in a day...............

Ah fuck it; enough.

LOL,
Ron


Ahhhh Master Mnottertail.... what she speaks is truth, yet so is what you speak.
Nothing is perfect. No ONE is perfect. It's only the Gray spots that live inbetween.
It's that middle ground we strive to meet in. Somedays are closer then others.

Always at Your Feet........ Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 5:06:01 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

However there are times when it doesn’t please me to do what he wants. There are times that I just want to ask him “what about what I want!!”


just because that is the way that you, personally feel about your chosen role in your relationship, does not mean that others who do not are to be regarded as mythical, "real", "true", etc. regardless of how often, if ever, you personally encounter them.
not everyone is plagued by "feelings" or emotions such as jealousy, rebellion, insecurity, impatience, annoyance, rage, hate, revenge, narcissism, etc., ad infinitum toward someone they are in an intimate consensual relationship with. there are folks who have been trained either by themselves or others by various methods to eliminate such emotions or feelings toward others from their day to day lives(without pharmaceutical help!!).
if this slave has learned anything from her involvement with this "lifestyle community"it would have to be that the only absolute that exists is that there is no absolute. the ability to focus one's attention to the here and now with the fervent desire to submit to another's will above and beyond one's own, in a completely physical, spiritual, mental and emotional way, day to day, moment to moment has also been described as not only mythical, but unattainable, wholly romantic, unrealistic, mentally ill, and oh yeah, what's that label that gets tossed around--"doormat". none of those descriptions make it any less of a reality for those who experience it through their servitude.
should they be exalted, put on some pedestal of "true"-ness or "real"-ness. NO. but neither should they be labelled negatively.

quote:

In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all.


this slave does not believe the test of humanity rests on whether or not one becomes annoyed with fulfilling the commitments they have made in their relationship minutiae. are you saying that someone who doesn't get annoyed as hell at their Master from time to time is something other than human?



(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 5:24:39 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hear! Hear!

Well said! nBeth (I can't hardly see Merc saying this, but I think he would agree with the spirit)

Perhaps I am wrong,

Jus' Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 5:39:36 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		I struggle real hard sometimes.

When i read Mercnbeth posts, i dont think 'doormat', but rather 'religious'. I know from reading these posts, that i am no slave. I simply cannot focus like that. But as im not in their relationship, i am in mine, its not a problem. (phew)

I tend to stay away from 'ask a submissive' as some of the belief systems are so far removed from the life that we live.

We, just like any other couple here, we have had to find what D/s 24/7 means to us. That has taken up most of our first year together. Now having got a pretty good idea what is expected of me, im still struggling real hard at times

I came to my Sir, with many myths in my head. Most of which were blown away by real life. A play partner, the internet, they truly prepare you so little for what living together, submitting day in day out means.

Mistoferin said that to remember your goals of what drives you, what the long term perspective is, rather than the here and now feelings you are experiencing, that helps me immensely. Helps, but does not erradicate the struggle. Especially when im tired.

Although ive not thought this fully, but personally, if you have to try to submit and succeed, that is more success than if it were effortless.
When i read posts from completely apparent submissive people, i have this thought, that they seem religious. So brain washed that the opposing thoughts no longer occur. Much the same way, as you see religious people completely blinkered by their faith. I envy these people somewhat. Life looks so simple if your a 'true' believer. However, im not. I have a evil side. Or a non submissive side.
When i have discussed this with my Sir, he once explained, that if he can see the inner struggle to submit in my face, (i dont hide things well expression wise) and i submit none the less. That pleases him. That is a demo of my submission of more value to him at times, than a drone/doormat or call it what you will. But balance is important.

I have often thought that 'ask a submissive', should be a separate forum to 'ask a slave'. The mindset is so vastly different.
I thoroughly enjoy reading some of the slave responses, it allows me a insight into how the other half live. One i would never know of without the internet. But i could never ever be one, nor would i wish to be. Nor would my Sir wish for that.

The only true submissive is the one that is with a reciprocal other and both sets of needs are being met. How you submit to someone, is a very individual thing to the people involved. And somedays, it really really sux!






(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 5:56:36 PM   
seaturtle50


Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail


A myth cannot set one up to fail, only ones own expectations (of myth or reality) can pre-wire them to fail.

i for one, am in fact a romantic. Trust me, life has attempted, with great enthusiasm to beat that out of me. Yet i am still standing, and up to this moment, i prevail.

i will not give in to or give up on those ideals that i have decided hold value for me. Even if they remain only goals, as yet unrealized.

Nor do i think that because my perceptions may at any given time, fail to notice my success, that does not mean i have in fact failed. Not as long as i am still breathing and able to make decisions.

The truth be told - i am blessed almost beyond reason - it is just at times i am currently unaware of it.

seaturtle


< Message edited by seaturtle50 -- 1/21/2006 5:58:20 PM >

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 6:05:07 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1

I struggle real hard sometimes.

When i read Mercnbeth posts, i dont think 'doormat', but rather 'religious'. I know from reading these posts,


I've struggled myself... What MercnBeth have/promote/live is something I feel worth emulating. I stand in Awe of them personally...........

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 6:35:19 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		i too percieve it as awesome.

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 6:58:47 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		reality does often collide with fantasy. however striking a balance is what i think we strive for in our day to day lives, at least those of us that are 24/7 slave.
i have my moments when i get mad, Master is great tho',he lets me still speak as free, about alot of things on my and and there is no retribution for journal thoughts either. and i get mad at me for not acting as i think a slave should but i find more often than not is he understanding of my feelings altho i do get punishments(like my bad habit of interrupting).
but it is the give and take of 2 that care...M/s is the most magnificant dynamic that people can share.
like today for instance, i called him after the memorial service(he is out of town this weekend),i was so worried about his comfort today...not being able to be there for him when he needs me....and he surprised me. after i aksed him how was he and we talked for a few minutes about his feelings and what was going on.Master took the time to ask me how was my day and about my journal thoughts cause yesterday was one of those relationship stress days.
that was a very nice gift cause my day wasn't why i had called him.
bottom line there is rewards we do get when we serve a Master,even if it is finding pleasure in something small as that.
so its nice to know even tho there are moments i get pissed b/c i feel my wants don't count, they do in many ways when i stop and think about it.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 7:06:40 PM   
OrlandoDave


Posts: 19
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, what a great post, and very good responses so far. I’m not sure that I really have anything of value to ad, but what the hell.
“It makes me happy to please him.” Well, sure, who doesn’t feel that in some aspects of their life. I love to please my father with a really great birthday present. I love to please my boss with good work and a good attitude. I love to please my sub with a good orgasm or a good meal. Does that make me “not a Dom?” All of us enjoy pleasing, that’s not the question. Do we enjoy pleasing someone when we have to do something we don’t enjoy? Being a Dom, some of this is speculation, I admit. I think, in general, subs have more “happy time” than slaves. I promise not to rant about the difference, the topic has been beaten to death and beyond, but I think it applies here. If I were to make an analogy, I would say that being a sub is being a cop and being a slave is being a Marine. Some may hate the comparison, but I think it holds water. Put simply, cops can quit. I heard in a wonderful movie that the only act of bravery a fireman ever “commits” is his oath, after that, it is just part of the job. True, I think, of slavery as well. One shouldn’t become enslaved to be happy every day for the rest of their life. It is a decision to “jump off the cliff,” what happens on the way down is part of the ride. That is why I think we use the word “slave” too much. Most people in the world are dominant or submissive, that is what allows peace, or at least relative peace. Leaders and followers. Getting back to the point, or at least a little closer. Being a good slave is doing what you are told. Being a good submissive is doing what you are told until you decide not to.
“It makes me happy to please him.” It should. The myth, well, I don’t know about that. You aren’t happy with every second of being a slave. Find me a Master that is happy with every second of that, and I’ll take classes.

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 7:57:41 PM   
alandraofMists


Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there?

Knight’s kyra



i agree with you sis, this is very much a myth. Depending on my thoughts and emotions doing my Lord's will is not always the pleasing choice. There are numerous times that i have had the same thought..."what about what i am doing or wanting".

i don't see it as a negative reflection on my submission the way some are trying to show it as. But see it in the light that i do have these thoughts and feeling and still choose to do my Lord’s will instead of not having a will of my own. And in recognizing that i am doing His will... i can also recognize that the submission i give to my Lord is more than just those things that I enjoy. I share with Him my joys and sorrows, my happiness and tears, my successes and mistakes; all that I am instead of just the good moments.

Knight’s alandra



(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 8:02:06 PM   
typesgirl


Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		NO one is perfect all the time. NO ONE.

If we were perfecty submissive all the time, never had a negative thought and always served without hesitation then what could Masters teach us?

I strive toward perfection and i know that most days when my head hits the pillow i can say that i'm better today than i was yesterday, i'm still not the perfect submissive.

But i want to be. And that's what counts.

Master and i discussed this post before i submitted this reply and in His mind (and this is for Him only, in His style of dominance) He believes that asking me, for example, to get Him a drink when i've just settled into the bath would be disrespectful to me. It would be a request not intended to lift me up, make me a better person, improve my life through His guidance. It's a different style of domination than others might beleive in but it's O/our way.

typesgirl

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/21/2006 9:24:23 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter.


I used to think this way and I *was* setting myself up to fail...utterly. I tried with great difficult to be unselfish, put myself aside, and attempt to be calm and soft spoken. It didn't work.

My dom has and continues to remind me that what I want DOES matter, just as much as what he wants matters. We're in a relationship together, and whether or not we have equal status (we don't), we have to compromise to make a lasting relationship.

And there are going to be times you get annoyed or frustrated or need to be alone or need to scream into your pillow. Sometimes, I would get SO stressed out trying not to stress out about day to day stuff that I would fall apart at the most inappropriate times (for instance, instead of being upfront about not wanting to do or not being able to participate in something while that something is going on, I would flip out two weeks later about 15 minutes before I had to be at work because I couldn't find my shoe.)

Being a slave doesn't mean your wants don't matter. It certainly doesn't mean you stop being a human being. It simply means that you may prioritze your needs and wants in a more...simplistic manner.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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