RE: Acceptable Murder

RE: Acceptable Murder (Full Version)

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Kana -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Exactly. Wear a fucking condom. No more "she lied". Well tough. When I was dating if a guy said to me that he had a vasectomy or whatever else reason that he could not impregnate me, too bad. I chose to not believe him unless he was the "one." So, condoms it is fellas. Oh, I know, you can't feel anything right? Well, guess what? You feel even less if we don't. Deal with it. True story I was 18 and read an article about a guy in court over child support He had been dating a woman They had the talk, agreed that neither wanted kids She changed her mind a year or two into the relationship, but knew he wouldn't bend so she stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but didn't tell him, in fact, she repeatedly said she was still on it Of course, when she got PG, it all came out and he said You lied to me, you committed fraud, no way am I paying a cent and he left she sued for support for 18 years Thousands and thousands of dollars I thought he had a pretty good case it was clear that they had a contractual arrangement and she intentionally, with malice, deceived him and broke it The judge said I don't care buddy Its on you to protect your own ass You were irresponsible and carpe diem, let the buyer beware and the man didn't take reasonable steps to protect himself on his end and And hit him with like 2,500 a month forever for a child he didn't want with a woman he hated Ever since then I wear a hat Know what... I have had sex a long time, with a number of partners Never gotten an STD, never had a pregnancy scare Its on me to protect me. Ain't no one else gonna do it.

Aynne88 -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Fast Reply http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-crisis-american-death-penalty So, all of you death penalty proponents, how many of these innocent people's blood do you want on your hands? I want none. You want to leave that decision to this fucked up justice system? You have to be kidding. Public ones too, did I read that correctly? Huh, let's give the wife, parents and kids of the innocent a front row seat, shall we? Thanks, Aynne. I've deliberately steered clear of being too vocal about this today, but I was dying to say something too - I couldn't have said it better, and that link is precious. Everybody should see it. Kittin you are welcome. I think that the whole problem is that people that are Pro-death penalty think that people that are not are all peace and love hippy dippy types. I only mean to speak for me now , but if someone broke into my house, I will not hesitate if I feel that it is necessary and my life or my loved ones are in danger to blow them into the next millenium. Really. However, to decide sight and evidence unseen who will die? With the evidence that exists that we are killing innocent people? How is that even human? This is not a case of life and death, or protecting your family, this is a case of trusting the government. Not hardly. Not all liberals are anti gun, by any stretch. What I am is anti government sanctioned murder. Especially when they can't get it right. Imagine that.[8\|]

Aynne88 -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:35:59 PM)
Kana, me too. I knew a long time ago I did not want to be a mother, and guess what? I am not one. It isn't that hard people. Good for you.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:43:03 PM)
quote: Around here, if you have a baby and take it to a hospital, leaving it there to be cared for - the police will spend manhours finding you and charging you with every damned crime they can. Which makes no sense. Leaving a baby at a nurse's station but not signing forms means the mother is a kid who is afraid of what will happen at home if her parent's find out. Not that you are heartless and endangering the welfare of a minor. Here in Texas, they have Baby Doe laws. A baby can be left at a fire station, police station, or at any number of prepared 'safe drops' throughout the city, or at any hospital emergency room or birth center, and there are no repercussions, except that the birth parents can't come back and try to reclaim parental rights down the road.

Kana -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:47:53 PM)
It's called responsibility. What a stunning concept for a Dom eh?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 5:59:39 PM)
quote: Here in Texas, they have Baby Doe laws. A baby can be left at a fire station, police station, or at any number of prepared 'safe drops' throughout the city, or at any hospital emergency room or birth center, and there are no repercussions, except that the birth parents can't come back and try to reclaim parental rights down the road. We have the same laws across the border from you in Arkansas. It's a good law.

winterlight -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:10:21 PM)
It is really up to each person's conscience on their decison making.

BoiJen -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:12:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Kittin you are welcome. I think that the whole problem is that people that are Pro-death penalty think that people that are not are all peace and love hippy dippy types. I only mean to speak for me now , but if someone broke into my house, I will not hesitate if I feel that it is necessary and my life or my loved ones are in danger to blow them into the next millenium. Really. However, to decide sight and evidence unseen who will die? With the evidence that exists that we are killing innocent people? How is that even human? This is not a case of life and death, or protecting your family, this is a case of trusting the government. Not hardly. Not all liberals are anti gun, by any stretch. What I am is anti government sanctioned murder. Especially when they can't get it right. Imagine that.[8\|] Well...I'ma hippie dippy peace love and happiness type that thinks protecting my peace love and happiness by getting rid of that guy who's a repeat convict, sucking up my tax money, wasting space, AND convicted of murder should be put to death. I'm not all against public hangings or shootings either. Just make sure the audience is of age. Then again, if I were God, I'd keep score.

UPSG -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:18:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Of course that is entirely different than the contemporary culture of the United States which admonishes 16 year old boys (who really know sht in the world) and demand they, "Be a man," and take responsibility for the child they created through the choices of their own, yet turns around and tells 30 year old women it is ok to be porn stars, have 12 different lovers, and have as many abortions as they want because women should never have to, "Be women," and take responsibility for the child they created through the choices of their own. I don't want to get too far off track, but what are you talking about? What makes you think the majority of people approve of women being porn stars, having 12 lovers and as many abortions as they want? Legislatively. And essentially that's all that matter. It's similar to charging interests on loans or state and or federal taxes, regardless of what anyone feels on the matter morally or ethically one way or the other that these things are legal grants them a presumed innocence of right*, especially in a U.S. culture which typically views morality through the prism of what's legal or illegal (e.g. alcohol vs cocaine).

littlewonder -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:20:12 PM)
abortion: It's a woman's body. She has the right to do with it as she wishes. The best situation would be one where you and your partner could talk together about the situation and come to an understanding of what is the correct path at that time but that's just not always the case. In the end it's going to be her decision. If she really doesn't want a child she'll find a way to abort it whether it's legal or not. At least if it's legal you won't have two deaths. Executions: I have no problems with executions for the most hineous of crimes but I do think there needs to be some changes in the way the system works and that new technology needs to be put in place since dna testing is not done in all cases and unfortunately this leads to senseless deaths. Right to die: should be legal. Again it's your body. You should have the right to die without interference. After seeing my father suffer for years from an incurable affliction and he begged everyday to die, I think no one should ever have to suffer in such a way. Pulling the plug: I have no qualms with this. If you have a strong opinion one way or another for your own personal options then I would advise people to make a living will...and a last will and testament while you're at it. Neither one is very difficult to do and in the end it just may save both you and your family a lot of heartache.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana The judge said I don't care buddy Its on you to protect your own ass You were irresponsible and carpe diem, let the buyer beware and the man didn't take reasonable steps to protect himself on his end and And hit him with like 2,500 a month forever for a child he didn't want with a woman he hated Tough break for that guy, and tough lesson for him to learn, but absolutely the right decision. No matter what a deceitful wretch the woman was, it's not the kid's fault. And that's got to be the bottom line - what's best for the kid. You can't penalize him for what she did. Good thing for you you learned the lesson by reading about his lesson, rather than having to go through it yourself.

kittinSol -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:25:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen Then again, if I were God, I'd keep score. Nope, if you were God you wouldn't give a shit about what human beings get up to. You'd be too busy basking in your eternity. You should really check out Aynne's link: it's full of precious info. You might be interested in finding out that the death penalty is far more expensive to carry out than a life sentence. If what you want is retribution and revenge, at least be honest about it.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:37:34 PM)
quote: I quote: ORIGINAL: Kana It's called responsibility. What a stunning concept for a Dom eh? I always find it interesting when a man brings "responsibility" up in an argument about reproductive rights. You see, even if a man doesn't choose to do so, he knows every day of his life that in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, he can hit the road and get into the wind. A woman isn't given that option. It's kind of like the old example of the difference between concerned and committed: In a bacon and egg breakfast, the chicken is concerned, the pig is committed. The chicken has no business talking to the pig about responsibility.

popeye1250 -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan I had this talk with my girl this morning. She works in the medical field and has both a more pragmatic and probably realistic view of life and death. And before I pose the questions, understand I have no real answers for anyone else. I think in terms of my personal choices and what they would be on a given subject. So here they are. Abortion. If you are a pro-choice person, is there a point where you view the process as murder or is it until birth, a choice? Executions: Regardless of whether or not they deter criminals, do you think executing someone for the murder of another to be an acceptable form of punishment? If not, are there instances where it would be? Right to die: How do you view right to die laws that exist for the terminally ill? Should it be a right in your view? Or do you believe that medical science has evolved to a point where one can die in peace without suffering? If you were the person making the decision, what would drive that process, fear? Economics? What? Pulling the plug: One of the areas in which I've always found pro-lifers to be inconsistent in defending life is removing others from life support. Aside from Terri Shaivo (sp), it is a common practice done in hospitals every day that generates little if any uproar. But in a technical sense, it is taking the life of another person. A few months ago a story ran on the front page of Yahoo about a man who had been brain dead, or at least thought to be, for 17 years who suddenly woke and came back with most if not all of his mental faculties. If you were called upon to make that decision, do you feel it to be one that could haunt you? Ok, Abortions, I'm (personally) not in favor of them but I don't think the state has a right to try to tell Citizens what they can do. Executions; hell yeah! And they should be made public and there should be more of a party atmosphere about them, hot dogs and miniature nooses for the u/ms, people playing frisbee while they test the gallows, you know, make a day of it. Right to die; you'll get no argument from me there. If I was that bad off I'd take a jug of whiskey and a gun down to the beach with me at night. No muss no fuss! The sand will suck up all the blood. Just stick the gun under your throat and the next thing you know your talking to your great, great, grandfather. I don't know about pulling the plug, it would depend on just "who" you were pulling it on. There's plenty of people I'd love to pull the plug on! "Ga'night you cunt, remember that thousand bucks you screwed me out of?" "Fuck you and I hope you can hear me we 're pulling the plug on you!" "Go head Doc, save some electricty!" "Oh,... look! NOW he wants to squeeze my fingers! Bastard!"

UPSG -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:45:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG To be fair, and to be given equal protection under the law, young men should be given choice if they want to be fathers or not. The problem for men is that the fruit of their loins grows outside of their bodies and inside that of another person. This restricts their say in the matter to an enormous degree. The only way they can make an active decision on their accession to fatherhood is of a negative nature, to not have children, by ensuring that they wear a well fitting prophylactic each time they have sex. If they want babies, that's yet another matter: they'll have to negotiate that with a woman. Tough: it's the nature of nature. Condoms aren't 100% unbreakable, Kittin, I've bust through one more times than once in my life. But more to the heart of the matter we are dealing with common law in countries like the United States and U.K. and not civil law. Common law operates off of the principle of precedent and as one lawyer has correctly stated, Supreme Justice opining that it is such a change in persons life to become a parent that no one should be forced and the issue to become or not become a parent ought be private, in fact opinions the door for male right to choose. However, "Roe vs Wade For Men" was ruled down under the decision, as I recall, that when a male engages in sex he engages in "risky behavior" and must assume responsibility for his sexual actions. Men looking for choice of their own are not asking to tell women to have an abortion. What they are saying is that if they clearly express to a woman that they do not wish to become a parent, and the two agree that is fine and still agree to sex, that a man should not then become legally bond to be financially responsible for a woman's choice to have the child. In the United States we've had a growing number of adult, female, high school teachers engage in sex with young teenage boys. Under the laws as they remain, a boy even if he is deemed "raped" by a 25 year old school teacher would still be held financially responsible for that child (the product of his "rape") until that child turns 18. In the case of "Roe For Men" the young man clearly expressed to the woman he did not want to become a parent, the woman then told him she was incapable of having children (if this were contract law we would be arguably moving into the area of consideration here, although admittedly I doubt it could actually be considered that for a number of reasons, unclear change in position on either side being one of them), she lied, they had unprotected sex, and she got pregnant. Essentially, for women a "it" is a "choice" when they don't want "it" but when they do want "it" the "it" is magically referred to as a child. I don't think men should be given "choice" but I do think judicial ruling establishes a precedent and opens the door for reasonable arguments that said choice should be extended to men.

Kana -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:51:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: I quote: ORIGINAL: Kana It's called responsibility. What a stunning concept for a Dom eh? I always find it interesting when a man brings "responsibility" up in an argument about reproductive rights. You see, even if a man doesn't choose to do so, he knows every day of his life that in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, he can hit the road and get into the wind. A woman isn't given that option. It's kind of like the old example of the difference between concerned and committed: In a bacon and egg breakfast, the chicken is concerned, the pig is committed. The chicken has no business talking to the pig about responsibility. "You see, even if a man doesn't choose to do so, he knows every day of his life that in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, he can hit the road and get into the wind." I would make two strong points against this. 1-That assumes that morally and ethically a man can walk out on his kids. and 2-It assumes equally that morally and ethically a woman couldn't do it. Check the history books As far back as Plymouth Rock, women were abandoning families in this country. Not to the extent that men do admittedly But its presumptive to make such a sweeping generalization. Lastly, I was not bringing up "responsibility" up in an argument about reproductive rights." I wasn't engaging in an argument. I stated my opinion on a few topics put forth by the OP. Nothing more. I don't play tennis alone.

kittinSol -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 6:53:36 PM)
Of course condoms aren't infallible: that's why abortions are necessary at times. My heart bleeds for men who were tricked into fathering offsprings against their will: but in the end, there is another person born partly because of them that needs to be fed, clothed and brought up. I have a feeling that this 'Roe for men" thing is a way for some men to try and get their own back and regain a kind of power they feel they have lost. The problem with that is that their children still need to eat. This isn't a perfect world: perhaps men should abstain from sexual activity altogether, since women are such manipulative creatures [8\|] .

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 7:23:44 PM)
quote: You should really check out Aynne's link: it's full of precious info. You might be interested in finding out that the death penalty is far more expensive to carry out than a life sentence. If what you want is retribution and revenge, at least be honest about it. It's more expensive because of the controversy surrounding the death penalty, the appeals, and the high security that's needed to seperate death row inmates. However, I'e asked for a viable alternative from death penalty opponents in the past and they never have one. Life imprisonment is not enough. Lifers do their time in the general population. They pose a risk to correctional staff and other prisoners. After all, they don't have anything to lose if they kill someone else. If they cut a guards throat escaping from prison, they can only get another life term. Now they could place them in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives. They'd go insane in a few years of course, and the guards still have to physically deal with them on occassion. Now they're even more dangerous and desperate than before. They could drug them, but that's requires constant supervision by medical professionals. So we either banish them to some place away from civilization, which I have proposed and would accept, or we kill them.

scarlethiney -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 7:26:13 PM)
Thank you for sharing your heartfelt and honest feelings about your fathers passing. You were very lucky to have a doctor who was so willing to assist your father and make his last moments comfortable. I am truly sorry you had to experience such pain watching your father suffer, but truly glad your father had you there with him, supporting him, loving him and being with him as he passed from this life. scarlet

kittinSol -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/3/2009 7:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Life imprisonment is not enough. Why not? It works in civilised countries. If you empty prisons of most of its non-violent offenders, you can make space for those individuals who truly need to be put away from the rest of society.

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