RE: Respecting authority (Full Version)

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Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:20:14 PM)

Considering most her interactions have been online based... I don't consider the other's who have had a problem like this with her as the same as longer termed and in person relationships.  Too much is missing to evaluate someone's communication style and submissive or dominant worth.  Online can be great for some and I don't mean to devalue them.  What I am saying is her experience is limited and we have no information on how long each of these relationships were or how they were done.  So until she states she has had more experience, I am not considering the online worth much consideration in determining her submissiveness and state of being.

Honestly... some dominant's might smile or laugh at her forthrightness or directness.  Some might raise an eye brow or make comment or question her... and some will slam dunk her and attack stating she isn't really submissive and has a problem.  I actually do think she has a problem and that is with the dominant's being so almighty good that they can insult someone they may not understand, rather than bring about correction of anything bad, by understanding her and being dominant rather than bully.



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:21:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
The whole, texting in a disrespectful manner thing, sounds like he's one of those online dudes that gets off on "fixing (his preceived) inadequacies",  instant discipline, and forced conflict. 

How can someone be given the authority to correct your behavior, after only a few days of knowing you even exist?  Stop questioning yourself, you know yourself.  Start questioning the unknown entity in this situation.


I am a little bit confused here. She said, "Problem/Issue: Approx. once every couple of days i text something that comes off harshly. Nothing out right negative, but maybe something that sounds directive rather than receptive. This gentleman sees it as my not being submissive/slave-like in attitude and questions my ability to be a slave real-time." So, from this quoted statement by her, the "texting in a direspectful manner" is by her. If it is by her, how did you arrive at this, "sounds like he's one of those online dudes hat gets off on "fixing (his perceived) inadequacies", instant discipline, and forced conflict"?
 
I am not questioning your statement, I am trying to see if we are reading the same thing.

Sir Lix



Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:29:18 PM)

Even if she is disrespectful... she is new to all of this and needs a dominant rather than an attack...



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:30:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Maybe those guys didn't inspire her submission because they were morons or flaming assholes.

Quoting texts off the internet isn't exactly the same as providing common-sense relationship experience.



Inspire her submission? That is interesting. So, are you saying that somone that isn't naturally submissive, that a Dom can inspire her to be submissive? I am not particularly talking about the OP.

So, let's address that first before we come back to this thread. Your response will enable me know which direction to go with this.

Sir Lix


I'm not submissive but I'm owned. It's not that mystical. I have the ability to follow someone that makes sense and is a great leader. You don't have to be naturally submissive to recognise that when it comes along.

agirl



But she said he is not the first to have problem with her lack of submission...if that is the case, don't you sense a pattern? Or you think non of the Dominants she has met make sense and are great leaders?

Sir Lix



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:42:04 PM)

There are people that want to submit and love to submit, but they always also have a problem with submission. That sometimes has to do with nurture, more than nature. When a submissive finds themselves in that situation, they need to take a step back and re-evaluate themselves.

I studied psychology and psychotherapy. So, I always like to read every line. I also have a degree in computer programming, of which enables me to be totally logical and analytical. Things don't always are like they seem.

This is what she asks of us, "But what i ask for here is more for a sense of self-identity and Your opinions on that level."

But she then concluded with this, "So why am i perceived in a different way than what i am feeling, believing inside of me?  Why is the inner not reconciling with the outer?...Any insight/opinions would be appreciated.  Whether i agree or not."

The question is, "Why is the inner not reconciling with the outer?" Meaning, why is it that the submissiveness she feels inside doesn't translate to her submission?

We need to help her...She said, "Whether i agree or not"...But I don't think that is what we are doing...That is just my honest opinion.

Sir Lix 



Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:45:39 PM)

She has been told she isn't submissive.. but she feels submissive.  Sometimes we need to listen to the person and not the loud online dominant playing rooster. Do you feel they actually gave a good evaluation of her being online?



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:49:00 PM)

You said, "I'm with the "get to know someone in real life" crowd, not the "insta-knowledge-of-everything from a few lines of chat" crowd.  If you think that someone is a "natural" anything based on how they type, you spend a lot of time in front of a computer."

I personally don't have any problem with getting to know someone in real life. I actually advise Dominants to do the same thing.

If that is the case, it means that people in general, whether Dominants or submissives should not engage in online D/s or M/s relationships. For me, it is both ways.

And as for if I can think of whether someone is natural or not, based on how they type, it isn't really about how they type, but what they are saying. She says she is struggling with her submission but that this Dominant isn't the first to have a problem with it.

Please read her post again.

Sir Lix



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:54:17 PM)

Do I feel they actually gave a good evaluation of her being online? Probably not. But it doesn't also translate that they were the problem.

My suggestion to her is that she needs to take a step back and re-evaluate herself. She doesn't need to get into any D/s or M/s relationship until she does that. The first step is for her to find a Mentor and someone of guidance for her. Why? Because a mentor would be more patient with her in guiding her through the transitional period. After that, she would be ready for an actual D/s or M/s relationship. That is whether online or r/t.

Sir Lix



RedMagic1 -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:56:22 PM)

Text can be such a limiting medium, and it can be so hard to see who someone really is from just a few words.  For example, Master Lix, consider the impression you are making here.  When the OP says more than one dom has had "this problem," good reading comprehension would indicate that we read the problem she states she has, which is that every few days "i text something that comes off harshly.  Nothing out right negative, but maybe something that sounds directive rather than receptive."  Note the problem she requests help for is how she texts.  Not how she comes off in real life.  DesFIP, Lockit and lron are responding to what she actually wrote.  You are adding things in to suit some ulterior agenda.  Perhaps you are the "dom" in question here.

As a result, Master Lix, your attempts to "correct" people whose reading comprehension is better than yours, are not doing you any favors.  I am sure that in person you are an intelligent man, with a good common sense understanding of human relationships.  However, because of the weakness of this online, typed, medium, all I can see is a guy who makes backhanded insults at women who are smarter than he is. 



Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:57:39 PM)

Sir Lix, you posted about authentic submission. You talk of how mainstream bdsm has degraded bdsm and the I assume authetic way.  They were written by other's, but you posted them, so you must believe them.  Do you care to elaborate on these things?  I think that much of your style seems to support these online dominants the op has had and I do wonder if you think it is best to discredit someone's submissiveness or even dominace, based on some of the things you have posted and on short term online communications.



Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 2:59:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

Do I feel they actually gave a good evaluation of her being online? Probably not. But it doesn't also translate that they were the problem.

My suggestion to her is that she needs to take a step back and re-evaluate herself. She doesn't need to get into any D/s or M/s relationship until she does that. The first step is for her to find a Mentor and someone of guidance for her. Why? Because a mentor would be more patient with her in guiding her through the transitional period. After that, she would be ready for an actual D/s or M/s relationship. That is whether online or r/t.

Sir Lix


Then tell her that.  Don't re-enforce that she has a problem or struggle with her submissiveness becasue she speaks directly.  She may just need patience and direction.  I would never assume she wasn't submissive or ready to be submissive becasue of speaking her mind!



RedMagic1 -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:01:03 PM)

Uh, Lockit?  Guess who runs a Yahoo mentoring group for slaves and submissives.



Maya2001 -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:03:14 PM)

quote:

But she said he is not the first to have problem with her lack of submission...if that is the case, don't you sense a pattern? Or you think non of the Dominants she has met make sense and are great leaders?

Sir Lix


If this is the attiitude these so called Doms have when getting to know some one online... it would say their problem not hers

I text chat does not allow for intonation or body language so a lot can be read into words that are not meant.


And most subs have experienced this sort of thing already... eg  you don't address the dom correctly as sir at every sentence or do the bow and scrape  with your words  and use lowercase for your or refer to yourself in 3 rd  person you have offended then uber domly domly   and are told you arenot the good worth  sub... this uber dom attitude is so common in IM is it enough to make me puke when I hear it

and the OP can still  be a newbie and have multiple  get to know relationships that ended  because she did not play the role of uber sub properly.  or proceeded beyond online. 

From your own profile, you state there so many fakes on here....how do you know she has just had  a run of her share of online wankers that are playing the role of dom hoping to get some online action to wank off to ...

it is the reason most of us do do not do online submission and  do not give undue respect until  some proof is show that the dome deserves and also until a real time meet has occur so we know if their is actual chemistry.





Maya2001 -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:10:58 PM)

heck at least somebody took the time to go all the way thru his profile,you have pateince than I do [;)]

I got 1/2 thru  gave up and went back and did a quick scan when I seen your post

count me out for  rushing over to join



lronitulstahp -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:11:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
The whole, texting in a disrespectful manner thing, sounds like he's one of those online dudes that gets off on "fixing (his preceived) inadequacies",  instant discipline, and forced conflict. 

How can someone be given the authority to correct your behavior, after only a few days of knowing you even exist?  Stop questioning yourself, you know yourself.  Start questioning the unknown entity in this situation.


I am a little bit confused here. She said, "Problem/Issue: Approx. once every couple of days i text something that comes off harshly. Nothing out right negative, but maybe something that sounds directive rather than receptive. This gentleman sees it as my not being submissive/slave-like in attitude and questions my ability to be a slave real-time." So, from this quoted statement by her, the "texting in a direspectful manner" is by her. If it is by her, how did you arrive at this, "sounds like he's one of those online dudes hat gets off on "fixing (his perceived) inadequacies", instant discipline, and forced conflict"?
 
I am not questioning your statement, I am trying to see if we are reading the same thing.

Sir Lix
  i thought it was pretty clear that my statement meant that the "dom" in question was trying to find fault where there really wasn't any; seems to be  running rampant.....



LadyPact -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:12:47 PM)

There are some threads that I just wish I had the time to reply to some of the comments that go over like a wire brush.  This is one of them.



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:18:24 PM)

Honestly, I do no support online D/s or M/s relationships. For the most part, it doesn't give one the opportunity to clearly train a submissive accordingly.

The point I am trying to make is that we should not be quick to judge the Dominants. If we are doing so, we are also assuming that all submissives are always right. I know of many Dominants that have gotten burned in this lifestyle.

What is sad is that if this was a male sub that said the same thing about a Domme, you would not see or read the same comments you have read on this thread from the same people.

Sir Lix



Lockit -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:27:49 PM)

I do not think you have the studied ability to determine what I would think.  Period.  I do not call submissive's weak and I do not consider an online relationship of short term with a new person to be a good evaluation of psychological or d/s determinations. I too have studied many things.  We may disagree on many things... but you find the dominants must be correct before the weak new submissive woman.  I think you faulter in your assumptions and take on things because you may have been burned online and are expert at so many things can be faulty because of that burn. Self positioning and almost all knowing.. with your authentic submission and weak submissives needs and all the mainstream bdsm weaking bdsm, speaks volumes to me.  We will never agree... but I do think that automatically stating that someone has a problem or struggle with their submissiveness based on dominants you do not know as rather egotistical or jaded.



whiteslavebitch -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:28:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Maybe those guys didn't inspire her submission because they were morons or flaming assholes.

Quoting texts off the internet isn't exactly the same as providing common-sense relationship experience.



Inspire her submission? That is interesting. So, are you saying that somone that isn't naturally submissive, that a Dom can inspire her to be submissive? I am not particularly talking about the OP.

So, let's address that first before we come back to this thread. Your response will enable me know which direction to go with this.

Sir Lix


Re: the underlined portion.

No, I don't believe that is what RedMagic is saying. What I understood him to say is that the dominant in question is not inspiring *her* submission.

Just as not every dominant I have met has inspired *my* submission. In actuality, only one Dominant has inspired my "true" submission and that is my current Master.



MASTERLIX -> RE: Respecting authority (3/15/2009 3:32:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

Do I feel they actually gave a good evaluation of her being online? Probably not. But it doesn't also translate that they were the problem.

My suggestion to her is that she needs to take a step back and re-evaluate herself. She doesn't need to get into any D/s or M/s relationship until she does that. The first step is for her to find a Mentor and someone of guidance for her. Why? Because a mentor would be more patient with her in guiding her through the transitional period. After that, she would be ready for an actual D/s or M/s relationship. That is whether online or r/t.

Sir Lix


Then tell her that.  Don't re-enforce that she has a problem or struggle with her submissiveness becasue she speaks directly.  She may just need patience and direction.  I would never assume she wasn't submissive or ready to be submissive becasue of speaking her mind!


There is never a problem with a submissive speaking her mind. Not at all. Personally, I don't want a subservient. I want a submissive that has a mind of her own. That is even when I have had slaves. However, what is important is the demeanour of the submissive in speaking her mind. That is when the training on honorifics come into play. But I still know of many submissives that have been in this lifestyle for 15yrs and in real time, that have problems with honorifics. I don't think she isn't a submissive. Some of them have problems with following rules and discipline. But rules create structure and structure creates discipline. There is a difference between the different levels of submissives and submissions. On a scale of 1-8, some are 1 and some are 8. All submissives are on different submission levels.

At the same time, I wouldn't consider speaking in "directives" to mean speaking her mind. That is the difference between the vanilla relationships and D/s or M/s relationships - The power exchange. In my opinion, the Power Exchange does not call for "directives" from a sub to a Dominant.

Sir Lix



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