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question about "scams" vs "tributes" - 3/16/2009 5:06:49 AM

asianchloe

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline

Asking for a "tribute" is listed as Scam #8 but how is asking for a fee a scam? Pro-domming is a service and if someone requests payment for their services, where is the scam, lie or con? It's especially confusing since it seems Pro-Dommes are allowed on the site since there are profiles that state explicitly they are seeking tributes or clients.

[mod edit to remove names]

< Message edited by ModeratorSixteen -- 3/16/2009 5:52:11 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/16/2009 5:34:26 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

First of all its against TOS to mention the names of others--if one is a prodomme, then state that as such, advertise as such and what is required as a fee.

If a Domme seeks monetary tribute, then it should be noted as such upfront---but don't be surprised if the subs are on to that approach and there isn't enough money coming in to complete a W2 form.

They might like online domination but with the economy, their wallets are geting tighter.

_____________________________

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"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to asianchloe)

Post #: 2

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/16/2009 5:44:30 PM

asianchloe

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline

I didn't mention anyone's names on this site. My censored sentence read: "Should profile X, Y and Z all be removed as scammers? [These were just three profiles I ran across who advertised that they seek tributes and/or clients]. It wasn't malicious or "outing" anyone. I was genuinely confused why they are allowed profiles if asking for tribute is not.

Also, profile rules state one cannot make mention of "financial slavery" so if a domme is into that, she is forbidden to (as you suggest) state that as much. It seemes contradictory that pro-dommes are allowed to say "I want money if you are to contact me" but non-pro dommes are not allowed to even mention financial slavery (forcing them to hide something on the profile that when they disclose via personal mail, gets them into the scammer category because they weren't upfront about it).

My guess is, not allowing financial domination is a way for CM to limit the money exchange between members and keep the site limited to lifestyle players. If that's the rationale, why allow Pro-Dommes to create profiles and be able to contact clients? Or should we be flagging anyone whose profile states they are a professional Domme, or asks for gifts or tribute?

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 3

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/16/2009 6:06:06 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

The kink of "financial slavery" is different from prodomination. There are prodommes who do it, but in general findommes are a different breed, in my experience. Specific examples here:

http://www.myfinancialdommespace.com/

For what it's worth, the prodommes I know get pretty much zero new clients from advertising on CM. After they get beat up by the timewasters enough times, they either leave the site, or stick around for the message boards or to advertise for a romantic relationship.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to asianchloe)

Post #: 4

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/16/2009 6:08:30 PM

zero69u2

Posts: 107
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline

If you think financial domination is EMPTY YOUR WALLET Worm... then hey let's call a scam a scam...

I don't think of household contribution.. as a form of financial domination. (YES, if you live here i expect you to WORK or be Financially Viable! if your a lottery winner or daddy is rich hey as long as you can make a contriubution to the households standard of living..)

tribute and contribute.. very interesting word choices and can mean alot of different things.. The Knights of the dom table and girls of the round subbie table.. may have various opinions on what is and isn't expected.. and If your not upfront with dungeon costs, toy expenses, roleplaying equipment, evening entertainment expenses... You could really be down alot of money and violating the TOS.. especially if you UPSALE a person who wasn't expecting to pay anything.

what if Domme A breaks a expensive Rattan cane on Subbie B's Butt... Should he/she be required to replace said Rattan Cane.. or was this a neglected hidden expense of domination...
Was this her fault that he had been doing Buns of Steel Exercises..or should she have told him to go outside and cut his own switch from the trees?

If your expecting a 200/hour rate you should see bigdoggie.net or professional websites designed for prostitutes..

If your expecting to earn a living out of tributations.. I think you'll find the people here less naive and uninterested.. As Real people meet Real people and are not looking for a SHAKE DOWN..

Empty Your Pocketsies.. little girl.... Is just not happening..

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 5

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 3:09:41 AM

MG4Apuppygirl

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline

Having read your profile It is clear you are not seeking clients, just someone who can financially support themselves on occasion. As far as I'm aware "tribute" was a term coined for pro dommes to break into personal sites without actually breaking the rules of the site. Whether that is a scam is debateable but there are plenty of crap artists on this site and plenty asking for money in way or another. One can only assume that a blanket ban on monetry exchange would have solved the problem. Yeh..Right. Personally I think it's deplorable that the scammers of this site and others have forced management to lump everyone into one basket, diminishing the opportunity of those who are genuine. In turn we have to consider that pretty much any site is "transported" globally, and what is legal in one country may not be legal in another.

For instance, there is one particular profile that has been endorsed by management condoning "human trafficking". Go figure.

(in reply to zero69u2)

Post #: 6

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 9:29:34 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

"Endorsed by management"??? I want an endorsement; how does one go about getting an endorsement?

One of the Terms of Service is that you may not advertise your services. Seems like asking for tribute is advertising a service, but then again, people have a lot of different interpretations of what the word "tribute" means.

4.3. No Illegal Conduct Allowed: You will not use the Website in any manner inconsistent with any applicable laws or regulations. You may not include any personally-identifying information such as phone numbers, street addresses, Web site addresses, email addresses, Instant Messenger screen names, or any other information that if provided may be used to circumvent the Website's communication capabilities. You may not use the Website to advertise products or services, nor may You use the Website in order to solicit products or services, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com.

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(in reply to MG4Apuppygirl)

Post #: 7

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 11:01:23 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: asianchloe

Asking for a "tribute" is listed as Scam #8 but how is asking for a fee a scam? Pro-domming is a service and if someone requests payment for their services, where is the scam, lie or con? It's especially confusing since it seems Pro-Dommes are allowed on the site since there are profiles that state explicitly they are seeking tributes or clients.

[mod edit to remove names]

This seems pretty clear, really... "Fee vs. Scam" in a case of pro-dom'ing is the same as elsewhere -sometimes "fee/tribute" means fee, sometimes you get scammed. And on the internet there are a Lot of scammers asking for fees/tributes. One must use their judgement as an individual and Collarme as a site has to cover their butt, because some individuals have poor scam radar and some scammers are good at their game.

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(in reply to asianchloe)

Post #: 8

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 11:46:32 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Tribute is a scam, plain and simple. If giving away your money is your kink then go for it, otherwise stay far away

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(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 9

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 12:33:35 PM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

ProDomination is a viable business, financial domination or slavery as it has been couched IMHO is highway robbery in make-up and stilettos.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to asianchloe)

Post #: 10

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 1:12:26 PM

Freyathelady

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

Let's try to put this in perspective. Let's say you're a hair-stylist and you really love what you do so you join a message board where you can talk to other people who are into hair styling. Then people start messaging you and asking you to do their hair for free. You tell them you can't do that because, much as you enjoy doing hair, it's how you make your living and, if you didn't charge you wouldn't be supporting yourself. Then they cry fake and scam at you. Pro-dommes are professionals, just like any other and deserve the right to make a decent living and not be badgered to give out "free samples" They're also human and enjoy the company of like minded individuals. I don't think they should be banned because they have a lot to add to the boards, in terms of knowledge experience, etc. I personally never bother anyone by contacting them and demanding money but, if someone contacts me, I let them know up front what my boundaries are. If someone's not offering what you're looking for, just don't contact them.

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(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 11

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/17/2009 2:42:40 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

The question of whether it's a tribute or a scam is, imo, largely dictated by whether the pay-er has a smile on their face or is pouting at the conclusion of the transaction.
No problem in the world with pros on either side of the kneel. Woo hoo for Capitalism!
Op, your term 'lifestyle players' confuses me on several levels. First, I'd expect to see the terminology used on a swing site far more than I would on a bdsm site. Next, and more relevantto CM, I see lots of folks saying they're looking for relationships. I'm not sure what makes them 'lifestyle players'.
I surely don't think everything about CM is even-handed but I do appreciate the people I choose to interact with and the site as a whole.
Just not sure what's your beef really.
Davan

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-Me

Waiting is

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(in reply to Freyathelady)

Post #: 12

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 2:15:49 AM

VanessaChaland

Posts: 362
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

"Professionals"? Did you really say that? I've known many "pro-dommes" over my years. Most thought a blowjob was "kinky" when the started. They never heard of the majority of fetishes and kinks that their clients might request. They are usually one of two groups, very young adult women who hope to coast through life on their looks, doing very little and expecting to be compensated well for that, or middle aged women who feel that life somehow "shorted" them and are trying to make up for it by taking (what they see) a easy way to cash in on owning a vagina and being willing to do certain "acts".

The majority of them are out of business within a few weeks/months. Even more bitter that the major cash they hoped to obtain never happend. Very very very few make it decades and ever make any serious money.

Going to some cheesy online adult site, buying a whip and some handcuffs does not make one a "pro".

If someone has a true and sincere interest, is willing to spend a great deal of time learning, training, practicing and then makes a career out of it, more power to her. That type however is like one out of a million. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyathelady

Let's try to put this in perspective. Let's say you're a hair-stylist and you really love what you do so you join a message board where you can talk to other people who are into hair styling. Then people start messaging you and asking you to do their hair for free. You tell them you can't do that because, much as you enjoy doing hair, it's how you make your living and, if you didn't charge you wouldn't be supporting yourself. Then they cry fake and scam at you. Pro-dommes are professionals, just like any other and deserve the right to make a decent living and not be badgered to give out "free samples" They're also human and enjoy the company of like minded individuals. I don't think they should be banned because they have a lot to add to the boards, in terms of knowledge experience, etc. I personally never bother anyone by contacting them and demanding money but, if someone contacts me, I let them know up front what my boundaries are. If someone's not offering what you're looking for, just don't contact them.

_____________________________

If you want to know more about me and my interests, Google my name.

(in reply to Freyathelady)

Post #: 13

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 5:28:36 AM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

tribute = you pay, and you actually have your needs met.

scam = you pay, and you don't.

(Of course, the question of "why am I paying for this at all?" is one you have to ask yourself. Especially when there are so many goups and munches out there who exist to help you find others who aren't into this to just make a buck. I know there are plenty of reasons why someone would want to use the services of a pro... So this is hardly an either/or situation.)

(in reply to VanessaChaland)

Post #: 14

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 6:20:13 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland
"Professionals"? Did you really say that? I've known many "pro-dommes" over my years. Most thought a blowjob was "kinky" when the started. They never heard of the majority of fetishes and kinks that their clients might request. They are usually one of two groups, very young adult women who hope to coast through life on their looks, doing very little and expecting to be compensated well for that, or middle aged women who feel that life somehow "shorted" them and are trying to make up for it by taking (what they see) a easy way to cash in on owning a vagina and being willing to do certain "acts".

Life experience can vary so much! The prodommes and former prodommes I've known have been skilled, and nice people, not bitter. However, I'm not surprised, VanesssaChaland, that my own experiences are so different from yours. Your posts tend to be full of complaints, and complainers attract other complainers to form mutual bitch societies. If you try to build others up more, instead of tearing them down, you might find that people who are successful in their emotional lives want to be around you. Then you will see such people all the time, not just once every million times.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to VanessaChaland)

Post #: 15

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 7:15:45 AM

sfdrew

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/15/2007
Status: offline

How many people have really been punished for violating the TOS? In my opinion it's like many real laws that they use to pull over or confront people for more serious suspected crimes. People are rarely arrested for jaywalking, but if a cop suspects a person has or is committing some other crime they can use it as an excuse to search the person. It's basically a lax legal excuse for profiling.

I don't think anybody has a problem with a true professional asking for compensation for their services, but at the same time, nobody likes to get scammed. There may be a glut of people crying wolf, but I doubt they really have a problem with it unless somebody complains.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 16

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 10:00:06 AM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland

Going to some cheesy online adult site, buying a whip and some handcuffs does not make one a "pro".

I apologize in truncated the rest of your post, there was a lot of good information there. This line I disagree with. All the women who buy a whip and some cuffs come to the internet, write a similar profile to a real, skilled, reputable pro-domme and call themselves the same thing.

When a client comes along and sees two similar things, it equates to a 50-50 choice. There are a few ways to define "pro domme".

1) Anyone who gets paid for providing the service of "domme."
2) Anyone who, themselves, claims to be a pro-domme.
3) Anyone who has earned the respect of their community by providing legitimate services and reputable dealings.

Personally, I like using #1. It's objective, but it opens the market to anyone who's pretty enough to throw money at. Truth is, I wish pro-dommes had a guild like the registered companions of the Firefly series.

Directly on point of the topic, tribute vs. scam vs. payment:

A tribute is a scam you knowingly and willingly walk into. It's an act of good faith, a gamble up front which can pay off in the end or be money down the drain.
A scam is a payment in which extortion happens. Payment delivered, goods or services were not rendered.
A payment is exchanging an equivalent value of money for goods or services to be rendered.

Since a tribute is a gamble, it cannot be a scam. The aim of a tribute is for both to determine the nature of the relationship. Is the domme a person who will hold up their end? Is the paying submissive going to hold up theirs? Either way, the tribute will tell. Hence, it cannot be a scam. You always get what you pay for in a tribute.

_____________________________

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to VanessaChaland)

Post #: 17

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 10:29:28 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

I agree 100% with VanessaChaland. Dommetoots are rather pathetic. Their existence out here does seem to be in contrast to the TOS of Cm. big deal.

It is a scam. It is primarily based upon one's economic class. if you broke you turn to Dommetoootion. Not quite as gritty as being a true hooker.

Point of interest. If you care to check this out....Look at the number of female African American subs, then check out the number of African American dommetooots. Around Chicago it is about a two to one ratio of dommetooots to subs.

Maybe black chicks are simply more dominant than their white counterparts? (I have heard this as one reason as to why black dudes like to bang our proud white sistahs, black chicks can be such twats...lol) The more realistic answer is that they, african american women, need the money and view this as an easy way towards a rich and fulfilling retirement without having any true skills.

Thoughts?

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Post #: 18

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 1:22:54 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Cuz male doms don't want people figuring out that requiring a blow job on a first meet is the same thing as requiring giving them a gift or money because then subs might not be so easily ordered into it.

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Post #: 19

RE: question about "scams" vs "tributes&... - 3/18/2009 1:32:06 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Cuz male doms don't want people figuring out that requiring a blow job on a first meet is the same thing as requiring giving them a gift or money because then subs might not be so easily ordered into it.

Damm you mean all this time I have been receiving tributes well shit I wish someone had told me smile..

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Post #: 20

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