quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Considering the government is in the unique position of owning this company its only leverage is the tax code.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, unless you want to build your own roads, finance your own private military, and  provide for yourself all the the other government services that are taken for granted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I have never understood any of this.
I still don't understand.  All that was necessary was to let AIG go bankrupt, and then renegotiate all its obligations.  The bonuses would have been gone in three minutes, simply and legally.
Why it was necessary to pass an entirely new law which makes precedent for the government to be able to decide who makes too much money, who makes money unethically, etc. beats me and scares the holy crap out of me.

quote:

The dollar dropped the most against the currencies of six major U.S. trading partners since the Plaza Accord almost a quarter-century ago as the Federal Reserve’s plan to purchase Treasuries spurred speculation that it’s debasing the greenback. Source: DEAD DOLLAR

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It may be "obscene" to you. It doesn't make it wrong.

I've done work and made several thousand dollars for a few minutes work ... is that "obscene"?

Where do you draw the line at "obscene"? Anyone who makes more than you do?

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why are people who make $200k-$500k per year getting "bonuses?"
How about the people who make $15 an hour getting bonuses?
What about bonuses for our military who don't make squat for the work they do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I have never understood any of this.
I still don't understand. All that was necessary was to let AIG go bankrupt, and then renegotiate all its obligations. The bonuses would have been gone in three minutes, simply and legally.
Why it was necessary to pass an entirely new law which makes precedent for the government to be able to decide who makes too much money, who makes money unethically, etc. beats me and scares the holy crap out of me.

DS - I'd suggest you, and most people, weren't supposed to "understand" this.

AIG is being used as a tool to accomplish a goals on a number of fronts.

First - it enabled Goldman Sachs to be paid 100 cents on the dollar on their bad loans. It also sent over $100 Billion in US taxpayer dollars offshore, which served to strengthen the foreign banks while simultaneously weakening US Banks. Check the resume of Paulson and some of the other Treasury and Obama Administration lackeys and many have Sachs and Barclay's in it.

quote:

The 'Bonus Language' was deliberate. Dodd is already on record to having confided in the Administration, and getting their permission. They and the President knew the exact language and it's implication. Is their anyone who still doubts that the President lied about knowing this? Less than 60 days into the administration, implementing what he referred to as "the most critical piece of legislation"; and he didn't read it and understand the implications of every line? The resulting firestorm had the desired effect - universal public outrage. That changed the focus, using only a little bit of Administration integrity 'capital'.

Now for the next step. Not necessarily 'nationalization' but tighter regulation of the financial industry. The bonus law may be unconstitutional, but a universal law regarding executive compensation may not be. Today, there is news that the Administration is calling for increased oversight of executive pay at ALL banks, as part of a sweeping plan to overall financial regulation.

quote:

While this distraction was going on, the Fed dropped another $1.2 Trillion in newly printed Dollars into circulation. The result was quick and significant. The US dollar lost 4.8% against the Euro in one day. Against other world currencies the dollar saw its biggest decrease in value since 1985. In 1985 it was a deliberate and combined effort; implementing a plan agreed to by Germany, UK, France, and Japan. This week - it happened solely because of the Fed action. Reference: PRINTING DOLLARS

quote:

The dollar dropped the most against the currencies of six major U.S. trading partners since the Plaza Accord almost a quarter-century ago as the Federal Reserve’s plan to purchase Treasuries spurred speculation that it’s debasing the greenback. Source: DEAD DOLLAR

quote:

You are witnessing the beginning of the socialization of the US; eventually leading to a 'global' social village. Without an independent and private source of funds there will be no stimulus, no jobs, no new business, and no business expansion. The entrepreneurial spirit that was the engine of every economic boom in the history of the US economy will be bogged down by Governmental oversight on capital. The resulting bureaucracy, paperwork, and regulations will make it impossible for any entity to act or react to market opportunity.

quote:

It's great to have an anti-business (big or small) mentality but you better have a plan on where jobs will come from when you take them out of the equation. Based on their actions, I know this Administration sees 100% Government employment, as well as Government involvement every day in every aspect of a person's life, as a reasonable goal. I applaud them for this strategy of taking out the US Banks, to accomplish that goal much quicker than I believed possible. Without them - there can be no other 'answer' but the government. Doing it this quick eliminates the risk of loosing the plurality they enjoy which can't be changed until 2010; which by then will be much too late to do anything about it.

quote:

While the citizens clamor to 'right this wrong', focusing on the Bonuses, the laws which will be passed by 'acclamation' serve to accomplish a much more insidious goal.

NEVER assume that the language in the stimulus bill was an 'accident'. NEVER believe that those involved in its creation, passing, or signing were too stupid to realize the results. There is a 'plan'. It just can't be disclosed.

Suggested Reading

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

This whole thing about bonuses is a distraction for the weakminded.  Who cares?  A drop in the bucket.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Since, to my knowledge, you're not vetted as a Constitutional Scholar, a quick search produced this information on this issue: ......But could such a tax also run into Constitutional problems? Some pundits (for example, here and here) have suggested yes.

quote:



For instance, although this is a great strategy in my opinion to insure that fewer companies take bail out money and succeed or fail on their own; won't the effort work against the ultimate goal of stimulating private sector business? It would seem that this action would be against the purpose given for the bail-out; but you can't expect Congress or this Administration to think that far ahead.

quote:


Then there's the question of the sanctity of contracts.
If the government goes around canceling contracts like those calling for AIG bonuses, people might stop entering into contracts that call for using government bailout money designed to get credit flowing again to help spend the nation out of recession.
Some firms could be scared away from the bailout program, said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of government affairs for the Financial Services Roundtable.
"Ultimately it will undermine the recovery efforts," Talbott said. "It will have a chilling effect on ability to attract and retain employees," Talbott said.
The House bill is HR 1586, the Senate bill is S 651.
Source: NO THANKS - I'd rather fail

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, unless you want to build your own roads, finance your own private military, and  provide for yourself all the the other government services that are taken for granted.

*yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYF6NI3RN3Y

I'd rather get my roads/security privately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Considering the government is in the unique position of owning this company its only leverage is the tax code.

the government shouldn't be able to own a company...

though maybe I overlooked that in my pocket constitution. it *does* sound like something our founding fathers would've just loved.

I'm sure the men who reveled in tar and feathering tax collectors would love the American government granting monopolies (monopolies in the 18th century sense) to a business and/or regulating a private business by taxation.

quote:


Aren't you pretty much arguing against yourself here?

For one, the "bailout" was Bush's legislation, which you continually and conveniently ignore.

quote:

It just amazes me to no end that a CEO who has had to have his company saved from bankruptcy by the federal government has the gall to imply that the government should have no say in its operations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
Possible, but extremely unlikely. I suggest moving to China or Singapore if you really believe that this is coming to pass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
One word: Paranoia

Every few years there is a clamor about how the end of America is upon us. Rarely assume conspiracy when stupidity or incompetence is a much more likely explanation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
One word: Paranoia

Every few years there is a clamor about how the end of America is upon us. Rarely assume conspiracy when stupidity or incompetence is a much more likely explanation.

Your perspective.

quote:

Mine? What you call incompetence is coming from an Administration who has at the top a man poor to a white mother and black absent father. Most, if not all of this appointees, the ones who almost paid their taxes, came from top end schools with impeccable business references. They are very smart to have accomplished professionally and politically. You don't get their with, what is necessary for your argument, "incompetence".

quote:

They don't have the same agenda as I do, but the fact that they have one and are executing it, is much more likely than thinking they now are incompetent which falls in the face of their past, and most recent, accomplishments. "Stupid" is the least likely trait I'd assign, but your reasoning has worst potential consequence than my "it was all planned" theory.

Is either eventuality your, or any other Administration supporters, expectation going in?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Why are you so reluctant to agree to what has already been admitted by the Administration and Dodd directly. The last $30 Billion that went to AIG was used to pay the bonuses. They didn't have the money until the check cleared.

I KNOW that Obama passed Bush Stimulus II and the first round going to AIG came from Bush I. The name endorsing this last check facilitating the bonus payout was President Obama. It doesn't matter to me or now whether you agree with it is reality.

quote:


It does NOT amaze me that you don't realize that the CEO you are referencing at AIG was appointed by the same people who asked the ridiculous questions. He had everything to do with paying out the bonus, but nothing to do with the management of the company prior to him taking the job last year. The questions only had to be asked by Congress because THEY approved the money to fund it....

quote:


Oh, and BTW it also doesn't surprise me that you don't know that the AIG CEO took the job out of retirement after successfully running other insurance entities as a favor to the Administration as is getting paid $1/year with NO BONUS or stock payout.

quote:

Let me ask you this, if you knew someone who was in a bad financial situation and you loaned him some money to pay his bills would you think ahead to make sure that person wasn't going to go out and use that money for a new car or a Caribbean cruise?

quote:

Congress provided the money for him to fulfill his contractual obligations. In the private sector, when someone provides capital, you assume they've read the documents pertaining to that release of capital. In this case that would be the specific bonus language. Why should he think that Congress and the President, who know his resume, would expect him to do anything else but fulfill his company's obligation?
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Does that mean you going to stop using the ones my tax dollars pay for?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Philosophy aside, the government, and by extension, the taxpayers do own AIG, so the argument here is we have every right to make demands on this company, regardless of what Edward Libby believes.

It just amazes me to no end that a CEO who has had to have his company saved from bankruptcy by the federal government has the gall to imply that the government should have no say in its operations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Against other world currencies the dollar saw its biggest decrease in value since 1985. In 1985 it was a deliberate and combined effort; implementing a plan agreed to by Germany, UK, France, and Japan.