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"Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 7:55:36 PM

MzMia

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Thanks Utopian for giving me the idea of this topic.
I have always been a very independent person and thinker.
As far back as High School, I was never really in the large "groups",
nor a "group thinker".
I always have preferred and enjoyed smaller groups, and individual interactions.

I have lived my life on the road less traveled/Land of being an Individual and
I have nothing against the "group", I just am not a "group thinker".
The only time I am anti-group think, is when the "group" enjoys ganging up on others,
which we all see all the time.

At work, I am courteous and I try to be friendly to everyone, but of course we have many
large groups and even a few large herds.
As usual, I enjoy my smaller groups, and I love to do my "own" thang at lunch, normally happily alone in my little adventures.

I am curious, do you consider yourself more of a "group thinker" or an Independent
voice out on your own?
Do you tend to usually join the "group" or do you prefer a few friends and striking out on your
own?
It is really hard to look at ourselves, but some of us are brave enough to do it, and we enjoy it!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/21/2009 8:01:01 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

Post #: 1

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 7:59:29 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I'm more of an independent thinker.

I find a work much much better solo than with others. I can make decisions easier and faster and in a better way but my current position means I have to work with others and I never quite grasp the way others think but I end up having to bite my tongue and go with the group majority which at times I find very very difficult.

I worked the job before others came into the scene on the job and so I feel I know more about it than others but because I'm the youngest my thoughts don't hold as much weight it seems.

It sucks but I end up just working most days to just nodding in agreement and going along with the majority.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 2

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:08:19 PM

WestBaySlave

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Joined: 9/24/2008
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Independent thinker here. Back in school, I was always trying to avoid groups - I'd rather do the work of four than work with four. I was that way then, I'm that way now. I don't even like small groups.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 3

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:10:15 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm more of an independent thinker.

I find a work much much better solo than with others. I can make decisions easier and faster and in a better way but my current position means I have to work with others and I never quite grasp the way others think but I end up having to bite my tongue and go with the group majority which at times I find very very difficult.

I worked the job before others came into the scene on the job and so I feel I know more about it than others but because I'm the youngest my thoughts don't hold as much weight it seems.

It sucks but I end up just working most days to just nodding in agreement and going along with the majority.

littlewonder? let me take you by your hand.
I have had to learn to go with the flow {especially at work}, I have learned
there are MANY people that feel they can cross many lines with me, and I am so
want to say something, but its not worth it.
I never have really understood "the group" or the herd.
I am lucky I am able to work mainly by myself, except for my little charges.
I work with young people that have multiple disabilities, but I have always found that it is
the people that are "non-disabled" and normal that seem to have the most issues!
At least with my students, I KNOW what their problems are.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 4

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:15:22 PM

Honsoku

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I will be surprised if anyone admits to being a "group thinker". I mean, who would see that as a positive thing? Almost everyone likes to think of themselves as a willful and independent person, regardless of what objective information shows.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 5

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:15:54 PM

sappatoti

Posts: 14844
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: the edge of darkness...
Status: offline

I'm definitely an independent thinker. Extending that into the world of career and occupational assessments, I score very high (around 98%) for those occupations that need independent thought and very low (under 10%) for those that need group interactions.

I should note that I had a feeling that I was an independent thinker long before I took those assessments, but not completely understanding why. The results of those tests clarified and verified for me, in a quantitative way, what I had already intrinsically known those many years before.

_____________________________

Never mind the man on the edge of the darkness... he means no harm...

"Community, Identity, Stability." ~ A Brave New World, Aldous Huxley, 1932

If you don't like my attitude, QUIT TALKING TO ME!

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 6

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:16:11 PM

awmslave

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Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

"Group thinker" does not make much sense. I would rather say: "group follower". Decisions are made and thinking is mostly done by group leaders.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 7

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:18:30 PM

TheUtopian

Posts: 259
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Thanks Utopian for giving me the idea of this topic.
I have always been a very independent person and thinker.
As far back as High School, I was never really in the large "groups",
nor a "group thinker".
I always have preferred and enjoyed smaller groups, and individual interactions.

I have lived my life on the road less traveled/Land of being an Individual and
I have nothing against the "group", I just am not a "group thinker".
The only time I am anti-group think, is when the "group" enjoys ganging up on others,
which we all see all the time.
At work, I am courteous and I try to be friendly to everyone, but of course we have many
large groups and even a few large herds.

I am curious, do you consider yourself more of a "group thinker" or an Independent
voice out on your own?
It is really hard to look at ourselves, but some of us are brave enough to do it, and we enjoy it!

I'll tell ya what Mia.....I've got a father sitting down at one of Palm Desert/Rancho Mirage's most exclusive golf courses right now worth about 40 million --- If I don't ever get single penny left to me when he passes on, I'll still always love, respect, and revere him most of all for his teaching/conditioning me to speak/think irrespectively of the group /status-quo.

''Group think'' '' The hive mentality'' and ''Group-minded situational ethics'' suck.....This nation was bourn of the individual...

- R

< Message edited by TheUtopian -- 3/21/2009 8:40:22 PM >

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Vae Victus! - Woe to the conquered....

My tears are the cure for cancer - I sweat testosterone, bleed black, and piss excellence.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 8

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:24:52 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

I will be surprised if anyone admits to being a "group thinker". I mean, who would see that as a positive thing? Almost everyone likes to think of themselves as a willful and independent person, regardless of what objective information shows.

lol, I don't expect everyone to tell the truth.
It might give a few people something to think about.
I don't think there is anything WRONG with being with "the group".

But if you can't think outside of the "group", or are scared to say
what you really OFTEN think, because you think the "group" might not like it,
that is another issue.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Honsoku)

Post #: 9

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:27:07 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

"Group thinker" does not make much sense. I would rather say: "group follower". Decisions are made and thinking is mostly done by group leaders.

"Group think" might not make sense to you, but it is a term commonly used and accepted in most area's of psychology.
The "group" tends to "think" as a large cohesive unit, by definition.

What is Groupthink

Groupthink

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/21/2009 8:41:46 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 10

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:36:26 PM

StrangerThan

Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I am curious, do you consider yourself more of a "group thinker" or an Independent
voice out on your own?
Do you tend to usually join the "group" or do you prefer a few friends and striking out on your
own?

I've never thought of it as group thinking. Always seemed more of a herd mentality than anything. I work with groups all the time but as a leader of those groups not a part of them.

A majority of my vacations in life have been taken alone, even when I wasn't alone. That's not because I didn't want anyone with me, but mostly because I often went places that didn't appeal to other folks. I'd do the week or two every year with family, but everything past that was either somewhere in mountains or on a boat trip or on my favorite stretch of beach. That particular piece of sand is 22 miles long and the only access by boat. It's one of those, if you don't take it, you don't have it kind of places as there are no roads, no people, no houses, no stores, no power, and no water. What there is however, is lots of nature, lots of peace, the same sights and sounds that have been ghosting across that piece of land for a thousand years.

I have, what I jokingly refer to sometimes as a caveman complex. There's something about having to earn your comfort rather than have it at the flick of a switch that appeals to me and something I need to do now and then. The family things are nice, the group things are nice, but when I really want to relax and enjoy things, I either go alone or with a very small group - maybe 2 or 3. And there is probably nothing else on the face of the earth that satisfies that caveman complex more than being out in adverse weather and being able to create that comfort.

I think everyone sees themselves as an independent thinker, and everyone is to a degree. While we like groups and participate in them, I agree with the poster above that not many are going to pin that herd label on themselves voluntarily.

Someone once told me that you could tell what kind of person you were by where you went to relax. Maybe there's some truth in that.

_____________________________

--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 11

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:40:57 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

Yes… no… sometimes.
My intent is to be productive toward whatever goal is at hand. If achievement of that means being in a group, that’s what I do. If it means going it alone, that’s what I do.
I prefer alone time, or one on one, mainly because those types of environments are more intimate. Also, I tend to get overwhelmed if too much is going on at one time. Too much noise, bright and, or, flashing lights…. Oh yeah, I can feel the headache coming, just from thinking about it. And then there’s the fact that I’m just odd. (different from most others)
I don’t think bravery has anything to do with it. As a matter of fact, it takes more for me to stand with the crowd, then it does to stand alone; it is what is most comfortable for me.
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 12

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:51:40 PM

UPSG

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Joined: 1/22/2009
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Nothing wrong with groups or nations of people working through problems collectively.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with seeking counsel.

I've already taken a profile questionnaire in the past, supposedly created by a female FBI agent, so I know where my personality type stands related to the designation of follower or leader. This is of course assuming a certain veracity to the questionnaire and results.

I would say usually I tend to be what one would call an "independent thinker." But we are a product of other things besides ourselves. Great boxing coaches produce great boxers. Talent often times requires mentoring or direction from a good teacher to bring about full bloom, or to strengthen the weak parts of a pupil. So, there are elements from a previous teacher to be teased out of an "independent thinker."

One of the great men of our times I admire is Hugo Chavez. I share his vision or hope of a united Latin America. As a U.S. citizen why is that? He is suppose to be evil.

I probably don't think like most people most of the time. That has its consequences. Sometimes it has very beneficial consequences. The majority of students in a fairly large class of mine, received D's and F's on an exam, and I received a fairly high grade.

Hmmm... I'm not sure dare and independent thought are synonymous. A person can be a "follower" and still exhibit a great amount of dare.

I would say I have less dare than some and I probably tend to be a little more deliberate in my thought and plays. But that probably depends context and situation also.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 13

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 8:54:57 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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UPSG, no man is an island.
We all need friends and family, and support systems.
There is surely nothing wrong with being in "groups".

Maybe you need to read the definition of groupthink, to see what I am discussing here.

What is Groupthink

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/21/2009 9:00:50 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to UPSG)

Post #: 14

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:07:01 PM

cpK69

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Joined: 5/9/2008
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After reading the definition; I’ll fold.
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 15

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:10:12 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

I am curious, do you consider yourself more of a "group thinker" or an Independent
voice out on your own?
Do you tend to usually join the "group" or do you prefer a few friends and striking out on your
own?

I have a few friends, but I do almost everything alone. I take several vacations a year, and i don't recall how many years it's been since i went on one with someone else. I just enjoy my own company better than anyone else's.

As far as being a group thinker, no. I've never been. It's always been my curse to make up my own mind on every issue, which is why just about every conservative poster here thinks I'm a communist and (since I started criticizing Obama's economic policies) most of the liberals here think I have a poster of Rush Limbaugh on my bedroom wall.

Actually, come to think of it, that may explain why I don't have all that many friends. People generally feel more comfortable being around folks who they know how they're going to react in any given situation. And most people who know me know they'll never be able to feel that way about me.

Ah, well. Like i said, I prefer my own company anyway, for the most part. I've always got someone to talk to whom I can count on to say unpredictable things!

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to MzMia)

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:17:16 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I can totally relate Panda!
If you are on your side, and I am on your side, WHO the hell is on my side?

I really appreciate all the insightful posts.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/21/2009 9:20:40 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 17

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:22:39 PM

Termyn8or

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Joined: 11/12/2005
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Sorry to jump through, but you asked the question, my answer is independent, hands down. I only discuss things to gain more specific info. I have only found two people who can keep up with me in this regard, both do the same job I do. And that "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing" thing applies in spades to this profession.

A buddy of mine was driving a towmotor down a very steep hill and it fell over and basically rolled on down. If not for his physical agility he might have died. We were discussing this and his olady said "Go down there, with nobody else around, think of what is on hand and just how to get this thing out of the hole". So instead of everybody standing around coughing up ideas by the truckload, a little time to think did it.

Sometimes it takes one person to collate all the information and process it through one brain to get the answer, but sometimes people like that are scarce.

T

(in reply to MzMia)

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:24:34 PM

KneelforAnne

Posts: 1011
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline

Hello MizMia,

I think, in a way, I tend to be both. I enjoy brainstorming and conversations with others as their ideas tend to spark my own. While I don’t really “lead” the group others tend to find my suggestions worthwhile.

I am a very social person, enjoy one on one interaction lots ( for example lunch with a friend), small group interaction (between 3 and 5 people) a great deal as well and like large group interactions (parties and the bar scene) in small doses.

I do enjoy solitude and find that “alone” time is necessary for me to view the world from an objective standpoint. A nice quiet evening allows me to get my head on straight again.

Now…having just read the definition of “Groupthink” I’m not sure that any of the above applies. I would hope NOT to be in a group like that. If I read it right, it’s sort of a mob mentality? Either you’re with us or against us?

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 19

RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/21/2009 9:52:41 PM

UPSG

Posts: 331
Joined: 1/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

UPSG, no man is an island.
We all need friends and family, and support systems.
There is surely nothing wrong with being in "groups".

Maybe you need to read the definition of groupthink, to see what I am discussing here.

What is Groupthink

Ah! I understand you better now. By the way, I've never taken any psychology course, so, your link was helpful.

I would say there is little chance I would be regarded as a group thinker then. However, I'm subject to pressure too, and I know the feeling of fearing to go against the group even though your gut wants to.

Lessons have taught me that most often it's worthwhile in the long run - if not short term - to diverge from the group's stated or unstated consensus at that critical juncture your gut recognizes. I think this is especially so in the area of violence and armed robbery. Being dismissed by the group as "weak" is better than having federal agents come after you. They have better resources than the mafia, and in the end, someone is always willing to tell on you.

this part of you link stuck out to me: "Examples of groupthink “fiascoes” studied by Janis include US failures to anticipate the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Bay of Pigs invasion, the escalation of Vietnam war,"

So very true. There were those few voices raised predicting exactly what would befall the U.S. if it did not cut it's loses in Vietnam (prior to 1964 or 5).

Hard heads make soft asses. I would say concerning "group think," now that I understand the concept of it better, that the U.S. is currently the most "stuck on stupid" with group think that it has been since the U.S. Civil War. At least I have had two teachers, from the Baby Boomer/Vietnam era, tell two separate classes of mine that maybe two or three years ago. I'm surrendering a little faith in their view, but I honestly can't really say how true it is.

Hmmm... maybe I'm conflating "group think" too much and transposing that on partisan divisions? I suppose people that don't know each other personally can't be defined as a "group." I know in the social sciences a "group" is defined by members knowing each other.

Either way, there is lots of intolerance in the U.S. of differing views today. I personally view it as on a latter stages of Constantinople. But I suppose that's digressing off your topic to much.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 20

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