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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 4:28:43 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

Yes they are. Pack alphas are still pack animals first and foremost and that's what the concept is based on.

no they aren't.

let's put this in the realm of humans. would a demagogue who uses the masses to fullfil his own ends be considered a group thinker? no, he is merely using a tool to accomplish his goals. he is still unaffected by external pulls upon his motivations and desires.

kidwithknife is correct. the term "alpha" is based on pack animal behavior

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 4:39:53 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Actually, he also said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

(It would be interesting to know how many people who consider themselves independent thinkers would also see themselves as alphas. As the two are essentially contradictory).

This is the part that is incorrect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

kidwithknife is correct. the term "alpha" is based on pack animal behavior

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 6:24:27 AM

kidwithknife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yes it is based upon a pack being led by the independent thought and actions of the alpha. You seem to be confusing loner with independent thinker. An independent thinker can lead a group.

But the alpha is basing their thoughts and actions, at least in part, on the effect it will have on the group as a whole. As opposed to coming to them entirely independent of any external factors.

To be clear, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. A truly independent thinker would be someone like the Unabomber.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 7:15:07 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

What is Groupthink

With that description as a metre, I am definitely NOT a group thinker. Which has caused me consider problems over the years. I have found that group thinkers are very uncomfortable with those that are not.

I am very lucky to have a job that values my quirky independent ways. We have a good team here and that is a wonderful thing.

I have found that male co-workers are much more accepting of independent thought that female co-workers.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 7:16:27 AM

Vendaval

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That has been my experience as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have found that male co-workers are much more accepting of independent thought that female co-workers.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 7:26:39 AM

LaTigresse

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Another thing I was thinking as I read further into the thread, a lot of people seem to be confusing the idea of the independent thinker with the inability to be a team player. That is just not correct. I love working with a team of independent thinkers simply because there is so much potential. I takes grown up effort to leave over inflated egos out of the equasion, but it certainly can be done.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 7:34:10 AM

Vendaval

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Good points, LaT. I like working in a group where people can keep their egos separate from their ideas and take constructive criticism as being pragmatic rather than a personal attack.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 12:26:29 PM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG
...I stood by myself on the side of the room that disbelieves the world is overpopulated. My position of course angers many people, it especially seems to anger people who have no idea how to articulate their position....

I would love to get into that with ya, because pro-pop arguments don't seem to make sense to me for a lotta reasons, but I think it would be a major thread hijack.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 6:12:44 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Another thing I was thinking as I read further into the thread, a lot of people seem to be confusing the idea of the independent thinker with the inability to be a team player. That is just not correct. I love working with a team of independent thinkers simply because there is so much potential. I takes grown up effort to leave over inflated egos out of the equasion, but it certainly can be done.

Wonderful point LaT!
It is possible for groups to be very positive and made up of independent thinkers!
It just takes a group that is accepting of different opinions and divergent ways of thinking!

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 6:38:12 PM

sophia37

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Most definitely both. Group thinking is just as important as independent thinking. As an independent thinker I sometimes forget there's anyone else in the world. When I sit down with others and discuss things, I see how valuable other points of views are to ones own thinking. Its just way to easy to settle into ones own "rightness" if-you-will. So even group thinking with like minded people is not always the best. Group thinking with different perspectives will really keep you sharp. Being driven crazy, by thinkers that dont match your style, while its sometimes stressful, in the end is essentially a good thing.

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RE: "Group Thinker" or Independent Thinker? - 3/23/2009 9:43:09 PM

OrionTheWolf

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The unabomber needed people to bomb, so.....

Taking into account the needs of a group does not keep one from being an independent thinker. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yes it is based upon a pack being led by the independent thought and actions of the alpha. You seem to be confusing loner with independent thinker. An independent thinker can lead a group.

But the alpha is basing their thoughts and actions, at least in part, on the effect it will have on the group as a whole. As opposed to coming to them entirely independent of any external factors.

To be clear, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. A truly independent thinker would be someone like the Unabomber.

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