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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 11:03:38 AM   
KonDomme


Posts: 778
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline 		Never once since I signed up on this site have I ever read anything posted by beth that I did not agree with but this "this slave's submission isn't predicated on inspiration...it just IS the way she IS. He didn't and doesn't have to "earn" her submission...it flowed naturally, like it always does...every day. it is indeed, HIS way...or the highway...it's what this slave signed up for." is how I have always considered the personality on either end of the whip. Submissiveness is not a gife it is a personality trait as is Dominance. Neither can be turned on or off the mind set just is. God I love your beat, Merc. You are indeed the most fortunate of Dom's. Stay well both of you. 

(in reply to Vanityfull)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 11:21:13 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Merc, I am sooooo glad you wrote what you did. All during lunch I was thinking about this thread.

I mulling over the idea that it really isn't so much the concept that bunches the undies but the phrase "my way or the highway". Perhaps because it's not mushy and romantic enough to inspire those warm fuzzies.

The reality is, for ALL of is, there is a certain, my way or the highway. Even from the sub/slave's perspective. They have a "way" a life path of submission/service that he or she will thrive best in. It is unique to each. They, hopefully, connect with their partner in a complimentary M/s or D/s way. The way that is that sub/slave's way of submitting and serving.

IF, that dominant or master/mistress, drastically changed their interests and needs from that slave/submissive on a permanent basis, it is doubtful the relationship would continue. In essence, a "my way or the highway". I am talking about things that would be deemed as not dominant, not mastering, etc. Change the perception of that D or M in the sub/slave's eyes.

I honestly do not know why this is seen as a bad thing. Especially from a slave/submissive point of view. They go on and on about needing consistancy, strength, all of those admirable M or D traits, yet when that is expressed in a certain manner....."OMG that is terrible!!!"

In my life, my house, it is my way. I am not going to attempt to change myself, to keep subsophie happy. Some minor aspects of life that don't really matter to me, like white or pink panties.......pffft, who cares, but the core of who I am and how I wish to live my life, no.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/23/2009 11:23:32 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 12:05:34 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


I'm going to be ME before, during, and should it end, after any relationship I enter from casual to intensely intimate. Frankly, its a matter of laziness. I don't want to have to be 'up for the challenge' of a relationship - I want to ENJOY the relationship. If being 'me' I don't "earn" respect, trust, honor; so be it. No matter how much I may desire someone - I won't compromise me. It's taken too long for me to know myself, accept myself, and more importantly like myself; to earn anything by changing who and what I am. It is 'MY way'. It is me.

What I sought for a VERY long time is a complementary person who was just as strong, just as confident, and just as accepting of who they are that they too didn't have to be "up for the challenge" to submit; but were submissive. My counterpart is a Master of herself and her submission. It's a honor to have her serve me and my highway. 

Quoting my good friend Michael; "THAT is Mastery."


Merc, though sometimes we are at odds on certain topics I have always enjoyed your posts.  They are always well thought out.

One point, I don't dig the laziness.  Maybe it was a poor choice of words. You have never really struck me as "the lazy" type.  It is not a quality that anyone would find particularily admirable.   Perhaps you are more "set in your ways" and don't want to tolerate the bullshit of others?

Anywhooo, what if Beth questioned a decision?  Is she capable of this?  Is "the highway" the only alternative?  I would think that as long as you two have been together that if a decision were ever to be questioned you would be forced to give pause.



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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 12:19:09 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Tis amazing what certain phrases can do to people inside, be it on an emotional level, a physical level, a mental level or any combination thereof.  The phrase "My way or the highway seems to be one of those phrases that can cause all sorts of reactions, including the "bunching of the panties" as the wise and wonderful LaT put it.

I am of the belief that, when looked at objectively, it is a phrase that makes sense.  I've taken the last 2 yrs away from having a serious relationship with a submissive because I got burnt so badly with the last one.  I also did so because of a realization that I had not taken this time in a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnng time...time to look at myself and what I really wanted, not just from D/s but from a combination D/s-romantic relationship.  What I discovered was that I expect certain things from a submissive.  On certain things, there is no changing.  e.g.:  if you say you are going to submit to me, whether it be for a day, a weekend, a week, a month, a year and you are doing so with full knowledge of what I will and will not tolerate, where the lines are, etc., etc...then do so.  I KNOW tis not fun all the time, I know that there are days when you don't feel good, I know there are times when it seems too much and I can be/will be very supportive at those times...at all times...and will continue to provide guidance even though I may be tired or stressed (consistency, as LaT noted) and so I expect you to provide submission.  If you cannot, then the dynamic that we both agreed to HAS changed.  In changing it just that little bit, you have now made it "your way or the highway".  That is not what I sign up for is to follow the submissive's way...they sign up to follow mine. 

It again comes down to communication...understand me and what I want and how I think BEFORE you agree to submit to me.  Don't come back at me 6 mos or a year down the road and say "but I didn't KNOW you don't like it when I go all quiet and put a wall up".  I guarantee you that you willlllllll know it before then.  ~wry smile~...as a matter of fact, all submissives reading this right now do in fact now know that CD doesn't like a submissive who "runs away" when things get rough.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 12:28:55 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Merc,

There are two ways of saying "my way or the highway"

The one I am refering to is where that threat is what gets the "dominant" his way.  Do this or I will leave you, in essense.

I have never heard you have to say anything of the sort to get Beth to do as you want.  Unlike me, you have a very clear and distinct idea of exactly what you want your life to be like, that is what you are offering, take it or leave it.  She embraced that choice and the your vision.  That is a VERY different thing that what I am refering to.  She follows your vision, she obeys, but not because of the existance of the threat but because of a very real choice to follow your vision and obey.

To me, the difference is quite distinct but clearly I am not doing the best job of articulating it.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 12:34:33 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		The fact that you and beth arrived at  contentment in your relationships from a hugely different point, doesn't have anything to do with *bad* or good*. It just *is*, surely?.

I can't imagine being beth , or you, as I don't possess your nature or your background but it isn't much of a stretch to appreciate that you're both very content.

As for *my way or the highway* .... the application of that varies according to the couple.

I'll speak from the perspective of being desperately in "love" with my slave. It would still be the "highway" if it weren't my way; but unlike when love isn't present I would regret the change of circumstance. "Love" isn't a condition or requirement, it is an independent emotion, especially in our case where we've been together for so long. I am sure I don't love beth only because she serves "my way". I LOVE "my way" and I LOVE beth. I don't anticipate any change to that status, but if she were to not serve "my way" she'd hear; "I love you, but I can't be with you."

This is what I have always known with M. No matter what his feelings are toward me, and despite his affection for me over the years .......if I cannot/will not, fit his *highway* then I'll hear the same words. It's nothing like a threat or manipulation or some convoluted idea of Mastery.

agirl








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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 1:03:52 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		I’ve never heard the words “I love you” from Sir’s mouth. I can’t remember him ever using my name in reference to me. We never gaze ‘lovingly’ into each others eyes. I hardly ever get to see them fully opened. Does he love me? I really can’t tell, and don’t believe it matters. Do I love him? Not in the same way mentioned in the OP.
The love I have for him has to do with acceptance of what he requires of me, because of who he is. For me, this works out well, because with exception of one ‘fantasy’, the things he requires are the same things I need from a Dom as a submissive.
I can’t fulfill that one fantasy, and I believe if it were important enough to him, he would release me. I would hope he would. I’ve been in too many relationships that lasted longer than they should have, for the 'wrong' reasons.
As for earning my submission, all that is necessary is him being him, backed with honesty.
As far as I'm concerned, that is Mastery.
Kim

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 1:48:10 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
You have never really struck me as "the lazy" type.  It is not a quality that anyone would find particularly admirable.
Hi DG! - Hell, I AM lazy. For instance, I could illustrate it by giving a quick response - I'm not trying to be; and you should NOT find me "admirable". Quick & LAZY. However, because right now, I'm too lazy to go out and get my own lunch, I'll have someone else get it for me and use the time instead to answer you with some more details...

When it comes to 'work'. I happen to be motivated, ambitious, and egotistical enough to not let that laziness get in the way of accomplishing anything I want and need to. Although the ego is still there, when it comes to my relationships, I see them as places where I don't need to be motivated to do anything outside of my comfort zone, and that includes an effort to please anyone by being someone or something I'm not. There is no amount of motivation that can make me do so. I call that lazy.

When it comes to business, fortunately, that's not the case. I'll try to give illustrating examples; if a Bank who I desire a 'relationship' tells me I have to create a pro forma which requires me to spend a weekend working on it to provide an explanation and the details of my request for an LOC, I'm not happy about it. I know I'll end up doing the 'work', motivated by my desire to get my LOC. Once they get what they requested we go forward from there as financial partners in a relationship, asking things of each other along the way to prove we still want and need each other and we are fulfilling each others needs. Being presented with a similarly desirable personal relationship where my potential partner requires that before considering to be my partner we have to spend a weekend at a 'Dom/sub Sensitivity Workshop' -sorry, I'm not going to extend the energy. 

I may have the time, ability, and even desire to see what that workshop would be like; but the mind-set of my potential partner where that request originated establishes a requirement on our relationship that I will not and don't want to fulfill; up front or ongoing. I may miss out on a hell of an experience buy I know it my heart it's not one I'd be as excited about once the 'frenzy' dies down. I know it would require too much 'work' and effort. I may be able to convince them that the concept of what they are doing is diametrically opposed to who I am - but again - I'm too lazy to take the time to do so; because after addressing it, more 'work' would be required to insure the attitude wasn't pervasive. Not wanting the ongoing effort is again - an example of my laziness.

Of course I'm capable, not too lazy, to 'bitch-slap' but that's only a short term solution. My reference to personal sloth is directed to an ongoing, long term dynamic. When I come home, I want my martini chilled, not a slave in need of a 'backhand' to 'warm-up' to "my way". 

quote:

Anywhooo, what if Beth questioned a decision?  Is she capable of this?  Is "the highway" the only alternative?
Yes she is more than capable of questioning; she is required to do so. It may or may not surprise you, but beyond the questioning she is INVOLVED with decisions. I seek her counsel in many matters. Thinking about it, I ask her about decisions I have to make concerning business that I know she knows very little, or nothing about, just to take advantage of her intellect.

There is no dichotomy between a "my way"philosophy and her questioning my decisions. Quite the contrary I think it helps keeps the focus on "my way". There are many paths to the same destination and since neither of us can completely read the mind of the other, although we're working on it, questions are encouraged to make sure the path to the goal remains as in common as the goal itself.

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 2:19:47 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If I were to sit here and agree with your line of thinking, Michael, I would be a complete hypocrite.  I'm probably not able to speak on the matter as eloquently as some of the others, but I'll add My coppers.

"My way or the highway" also has another translation.  That being, "there are terms for wearing My collar."  If I am worth My salt as a Dominant, those terms were made clear long before that leather went on someone's neck.  I didn't slap it on and expect him to figure out the rules later.  The conditions of which were known beforehand.  As I have very recently said, the choice of accepting those must be made every day.

I can not say that "My way or the highway" translates to "I don't love you."  In fact, it might be quite the opposite.  There are some people out there who absolutely thrive on structure, but that structure must be maintained.  It can not be structure if followed only when it pleases someone.  Yes, that does mean that there will be times it won't exactly thrill someone, but some would argue that these are also the times that a person will submit.  That is what they agreed to when the collar was fastened, is it not?

Whether we like to state it outright or not, that collar is a choice.  Every day, by both parties.  This, I would have to say, is different than love.  There is truth in the expression of "I love you, but I can not be with you."  I would also suggest that "My way or the highway" can be a matter of each determining compatibility. It's completely possible that two can love each other a great deal, but other factors make them unsuited for each other.

One thing I'd also like to inject.  There really are some of us out there who really aren't thrilled with emphasizing what should be common knowledge in our dynamic.  I honestly do expect to be obeyed and I would venture to say that clip is well aware of that.  The fact that I have to reinforce it by saying so or reminding him of it in an unpleasant way doesn't make Me happy.  In fact, it means something is very seriously wrong and that needs to be resolved in the most time efficient manner. 

I'd like to personally thank you for this topic.





_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 2:34:26 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		I am no slave and i don't like this 'my way or the highway' stuff...I don't like the choice between doing something i don't like at all or can't do (yet) or being chucked out like dirt. If i hit a block like that with a Dominant I tend to find Him a bit stupid for not alowing me time to adjust or finding a little detour to get me there...I mean why allow me to wander off on the highway to catch another ride??? unless He lost interest or is stupid and not worth it...and in that case i will take the highway indeed, thank you very much. To me it is not Dominance it is a bit boring and sort of narrowminded and selfish...that's just my humble opinion not meant to offend any one...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 3:16:33 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
this slave didn't "inspire" his dominance any more than he "inspired" her submission.  it is who we are as well as the foundation of the relationship structure we agreed upon in the beginning.
 
for the folks that need that inspiration, that special-ness that no-one else ever gets, more power to them...but those that don't, in this slave's humble opinion, shouldn't be labelled "bad" or "not good" because of it, that's all.


In the words of Al Pacino... "hoorah!". I could not have said it any better and will not attempt to.



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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 3:18:58 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This is how I see it too.  "My way or the highway" COULD be a form of manipulation, but it doesn't have to be.  Nor is it a sign that someone doesn't care about his or her partner.  I know that "my way or the highway" is the only way a d/s relationship will work for me, and if a sub can't accept it, I'd have to let her go--even if I felt deeply about her.

"My way or the highway" doesn't mean "I'm not going to listen to your ideas," for that matter.  It means "Tell me if you have a good idea, but I'm still making the final decision."

quote:

ORIGINAL: alianora

I don't see this as a threat. I see it as a statement of fact from a man/woman who knows exactly what it is they want, and will not allow distractions to impede them.
I see it as confidence in their own way of doing things.
 
Now granted, much depends on the person who utters that phrase. Are we compatible? Can I accept such confidence in a man? All the time? In all ways?
If the answers are no, then doing things 'his way' is of no consequence because his way, would not match my way.

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 3:38:26 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I know I wouldn’t call that dominance either.  


Hmmm, perhaps it has to do with both dominance and submission?
I’d say it depends on when these words are uttered.
Before a relationship has been established, I think it’s a great way to establish the rules.  As long as the dominant is clear about what the rules are, even if the rules are ‘whatever the dominant says and no discussion’ I get to decide if I can follow them or not. I get to decide if I can live happily within the dominant’s “way”.  If I can’t, then it’s my choice, indeed my obligation, to hit the highway.  Saves a lot of time and drama!
If it is said once the relationship has developed, I should have known what I was agreeing to in the beginning and it is a statement that continues to reinforce the rules.  If there was something I thought I could do and discover I can’t, then, once again it is my choice to stay and do it the dominant’s way, or step out on the road.
It is the unforgiving tone of the phrase that concerns me.  We are all prone to make the occasional mistake, after all.  I decline to be afraid that my imperfections would not be tolerated.  But then again, if I thought that would happen, I’d already be out there by the on ramp with my thumb out.  Which, come to think of it, would bolster the claim that it was indeed, ‘the dominant’s way or the highway’. 


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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 3:52:48 PM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

I know I wouldn’t call that dominance either.  


Hmmm, perhaps it has to do with both dominance and submission?
I’d say it depends on when these words are uttered.
Before a relationship has been established, I think it’s a great way to establish the rules.  As long as the dominant is clear about what the rules are, even if the rules are ‘whatever the dominant says and no discussion’ I get to decide if I can follow them or not. I get to decide if I can live happily within the dominant’s “way”.  If I can’t, then it’s my choice, indeed my obligation, to hit the highway.  Saves a lot of time and drama!
If it is said once the relationship has developed, I should have known what I was agreeing to in the beginning and it is a statement that continues to reinforce the rules.  If there was something I thought I could do and discover I can’t, then, once again it is my choice to stay and do it the dominant’s way, or step out on the road.
It is the unforgiving tone of the phrase that concerns me.  We are all prone to make the occasional mistake, after all.  I decline to be afraid that my imperfections would not be tolerated.  But then again, if I thought that would happen, I’d already be out there by the on ramp with my thumb out.  Which, come to think of it, would bolster the claim that it was indeed, ‘the dominant’s way or the highway’. 





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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 6:51:15 PM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline 		Fast Reply (more or less in response to the OP)

In an emotionally-based relationship,
the one who cares LESS, wields the greater Power.

The one who 'cares less',
may well be entirely divorced from any emotional investment whatsoever,
considering that CM/CC is the forum and context, here.

Ya, JMO

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 7:13:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I mulling over the idea that it really isn't so much the concept that bunches the undies but the phrase "my way or the highway".

The reality is, for ALL of is, there is a certain, my way or the highway. Even from the sub/slave's perspective. They have a "way" a life path of submission/service that he or she will thrive best in. It is unique to each. They, hopefully, connect with their partner in a complimentary M/s or D/s way. The way that is that sub/slave's way of submitting and serving.



You're absolutely right in that we all have, or ought to have, a list of must haves and deal breakers. These are the things that we absolutely need or can't deal with.

But the phrase "my way or the highway" has never in my experience been used to indicate compatibilities. It is always, in my experience, used as a threat to bludgeon someone into doing something that is far from what is best for them. And that's why we object to the term.

Basically it gets used to keep the sub insecure. "Do one thing wrong and you're out of here". Which really means, to me, that the D enjoys emotional abuse at worse, or seeks to set the sub up to fail, at best. Possibly because the D feels threatened by emotional intimacy, they use this to ensure there won't be any, to make sure they have a reason to kick the s to the curb whenever they feel that they (the D) are becoming emotionally vulnerable. After all you can't be hurt if you don't share intimacy, and if you have a revolving door of partners you aren't being emotionally intimate.

At least this is how I've always seen it work out. People who claim to want a relationship but aren't ready to open themselves up, can always find a way to sabotage it. And use of this phrase seems to be pretty common as sabotage, in consenting power relationships and out of them.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 7:21:23 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		When I first met Master that was one of the first things he said to me and to be honest I'm fine with that because it simply means is "this is what I want in my life, this is how it will be. If you don't like that type of life, if you can't be a part of such a life then you are welcome to leave".

It made perfect sense to me. I never feel browbeaten. I never feel as if I have something hanging over me or made to feel insecure or abused.

That doesn't mean he doesn't talk to me and find out what I need as well. It just means that if I don't feel we are a match then I should not feel afraid to leave but it also means I shouldn't expect him to change. I take him for who and what he is...not what he might be.

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 8:14:07 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Considering the importance we give to experience, if a teenage girl can do the same thing, then either we are all full of shit or that isn’t dominance
What experience is needed in order for one to be dominant?    Mastery of self/skills is something different, I feel.  But dominant?      M

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 9:35:43 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		It is my way and there is no highway. When excellent mastery is applied, the choice to not obey ceases to exist.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: My way or the highway? - 3/23/2009 9:36:22 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think anyone is wrong or not dominant or whatever if they choose that relationship dynamic for themselves, but a "one strike and you're out" announcement would probably be a dealbreaker for me, especially from someone I've just met. I'm open to a lot of possibilities, and very much willing to compromise, but I'm not perfect.

Personally, I don't require experience from a dominant, I just need to react submissively toward him, and to feel I can trust him/that he is a reasonable person. A "my way or the highway" statement, especially combined with an "obey or leave" would probably come across as a threat. Of course, everyone has deal-breakers that they will leave over, especially with someone new who they don't yet love/trust/etc., but that seems quite different from "If you've been my submissive for 3 years and there is even one thing, I tell you to do that you can't handle right then, I will dump your ass in a red-hot second."

On the flip side, if someone was my submissive, I would also try to find a workable solution if there was something I wanted from them that they couldn't give me, either due to circumstances right then, or due to limits/etc.

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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