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[Poll]

Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these?


Husky
  9% (4)
American Staffordshire/english Staffordshire terrier
  2% (1)
American pit bull terrier
  17% (7)
Rottweiler
  9% (4)
Doberman Pinscher
  2% (1)
ChowChow
  4% (2)
Great Dane
  7% (3)
Shar Pei
  0% (0)
Mix of any of the above
  17% (7)
none
  29% (12)


Total Votes : 41


(last vote on : 3/28/2009 7:21:32 AM)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/23/2009 3:29:40 PM   
LaTigresse


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Actually a reputable and responsible breeder of Siberian Huskies would never cross breed with a wolf. I could give a whole list of reasons why that would be problematic. Outside of some genetic predispositions when mixing the two, there is a size requirement in the Husky that must be maintained, that adding the wolf would ruin.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/23/2009 6:17:32 PM   
SavageFaerie


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I am shocked and dismayed that Great danes are on their list.  There is a reason they are called gentle giants.  I have not met one great dane that posed any threat other than knocking your ass down if they lean into you to hard.  I raised some and also rescued some and not once did one bure bread dane so any agression. 

If its the fact they are big I call total bullshit on this breed.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/23/2009 8:22:51 PM   
Mellissande


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This is a fast reply, I am sooo sorry I haven't replied all day, Had Hail storms and Tornadoes knock out internet on Fort Riley ALL DAY!!! I will reply to everyone, Again I apologize for disappearing.

I know of one extremely aggressive Great dane, The only mean GD I've ever met, But He was abused and is only mean to drug dealers as far as I've seen. He is being trained and the new owners are working with him on his aggression. Great Danes are hard to reign back in when they've found out how much strength and power they have. Generally it's not an issue if they are trained properly from young puppyhood. I must reiterate, Owning dogs of any breed is a huge responsibility, One must always be in control of their animals and Absolutely Must Properly Train their animals. No Exceptions! If a person has trouble training or hasn't the money to afford obedience classes then said person is an irresponsible owner and is setting their dog up for disaster and posing a threat to the general public.

I will reply to all posts tomorrow, Again I am sorry I was not online to reply earlier.


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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/23/2009 9:04:41 PM   
DesFIP


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I have vivid memories as a kid of being attacked by a Great Dane. I was on the other side of a screen door and he went wild, snarling and trying to get through it to me. Thankfully someone pulled it back and locked it in a room. I will admit the owner was not a good person though, so it possibly had not been properly socialized.

I just adopted a shelter Golden Retriever. Unfortunately most if not all of the shelter pit bulls are not coming from families in economic distress. Most if not all are rescued when the cops break up a dog fighting ring. Then you get animals bred and trained for aggression that frequently cannot be fostered nor retrained. It's a major problem. The ones that aren't any good for fighting but survive their experiences in the ring get abandoned. These animals just don't make good family dogs.

My previous Golden would let anyone in the house. Possibly if one of us were attacked she might have done something, as it never happened I can't say. Her shining moment of bravery came when she drove away a bear from the back door, and she was terrified of bears. She was also grateful to be on the other side of the glass door from it.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 4:21:02 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SavageFaerie

I am shocked and dismayed that Great danes are on their list.  There is a reason they are called gentle giants.  I have not met one great dane that posed any threat other than knocking your ass down if they lean into you to hard.  I raised some and also rescued some and not once did one bure bread dane so any agression. 

If its the fact they are big I call total bullshit on this breed.


It may simply be a size issue too. I see the effects of wrong choice all the time. Dogs need exercise, even a couch potato like a GD. If you live in an apartment or a home that does not have a properly fenced yard. You should be prepared to take 3-4 LONG walks a day. If you cannot do that, get a lapdog. They only need 3-4 short walks a day.

Not to mention, if owners are not disposing of the feces of a rott, great dane, large lab........it's gonna get really gross in the neighbourhood, really fast.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/24/2009 4:29:44 AM >


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SavageFaerie)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 12:10:01 PM   
Mellissande


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bksir, and Bear, You both convey very good points. These points of view are why I have put up this petition. I am not petitioning just to be able to keep my own dog, I am petitioning so that responsible owners never have to worry about their Pets being taken from them. I am petitioning for harsher laws on the people who abuse, abandon and neglect their animals. The laws being put into effect are doing nothing to stop the abusers, They are only punishing the animals themselves, 99% of whom haven't done anything to be punished for. If your dog bites someone, Yes that deserves punishment, Not only punishment of the dog, but also of the irresponsible owner, Because 9 times out of 10 if you take away the "aggressive dog" and put it to sleep, That owner is going to get another dog, Not train it properly and continue to pose a threat to the Human and animal community.

Bounty hunter, I'm glad you understand what I'm fighting for here, And Big beauty. You both see how kind your dogs are when trained and socialized properly, I know what you mean about the homeowners insurance, I have to have 300,000 property and liability insurance because My geronimo is a quarter pit, If he wasn't brindle you'd assume he was just another mutt.


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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 12:15:14 PM   
Mellissande


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This is a very odd case and cannot be considered the norm. Dogs, no matter what breed, do not just "go bad" there is always something there that would have been a warning sign if watched closely. In this case, She went after another dog, Most dogs don't randomly develop dog aggression, if they are aggressive towards other dogs it is because of poor socialization with other dogs. Just because a dog is great with people and highly socialized around people does not mean it has been socialized with other dogs. As I did not know this Akita though, This is all speculation. But that story just doesn't sound like the full story.

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Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 12:20:45 PM   
Mellissande


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I adore dogs, work with rescue organizations and rehabilitate dogs with aggression problems. My son has a pit that is a sweetheart. Yet......I do believe that there are SOME instances that breed/size exclusion is warranted.

No large breed dogs in apartments I can understand.

Yes this makes sense

quote:

No more than two dogs per household in town I can understand.

Again you're making loads of sense here. Most families cannot handle more than two dogs without having some problems either behavior-wise or financially.

quote:

I also would have no problem supporting a city registration of specific breeds, and.....requiring owners of specific breeds to undergo a training programme with their dog/s. If the dog and owner did not pass the class, the dog cannot stay in town.


This is where I have to disagree with you. Every single dog owner should have to take these courses, No specific breed is an exception to the rule that Dogs bite and get EXTREMELY aggressive when not trained properly, If you go about it this way you are still spreading the false sense that it is a breed problem and not an owner problem.


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 12:33:07 PM   
Mellissande


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

Up until Friday, I had a 13 lb chihuahua/terrier cross who came to me feral.  I worked with him diligently until he was the sweetest tamest dog ever.  But when people met him for the first time, many of them would ask if he bit before reaching out to him.  I had a stock answer:  He hasn't bitten anyone yet, but he is a dog, after all.  Dogs of all breeds, sizes, temperaments & upbringing are capable of biting given the proper circumstances. 

Exactly my point, Have you ever heard of the book, "all dogs bite, But balloons and slippers are more dangerous" ? I think that should be required reading in schools, It teaches proper "bite defense techniques" How to avoid being bitten by a dog who may not be aggressive, but may be stressed even, And how to recognize signs in a dog.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
You know, I've never actually met an aggressive pit/rottie/chow that wasn't poorly trained or abused. Now- aggressive labs? Holy crap- C owns a couple of maneaters that have sent more than one person to the ER- and they've had several training classes. They've finally calmed down... I think. 
wow, I hope they got all the training they needed, And I hope they continue with it, Where I'm from they would've been put to sleep after the first attack.

FelineFae, I hope your dog is happy now, But I do agree on a small standpoint that wild hybrids should not be bred and kept as pets, But short of euthanizing them because they were born, I don't see why a rescued animal cannot be kept as a pet being as it has no survival training and has lived in captivity it's entire life. I do not condone breeding the hybrids or buying them as pets, But if you can find it in your heart to adopt an animal I don't care what breed it is, You've saved that animal from death.

LaTigresse, I think you have some very conflicting views on what I am trying to do with this petition and I don't think you fully understand that there is nothing wrong with any breed of dog, There is nothing about any specific breed that merits any special precautions aside from the fact that every single dog, regardless of breed must be properly trained and socialized, or they will become a detriment to Society. And breed specific Legislation does nothing but put blame on dogs that have done nothing to deserve the hatred they get.


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Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 12:41:39 PM   
Mellissande


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I have vivid memories as a kid of being attacked by a Great Dane. I was on the other side of a screen door and he went wild, snarling and trying to get through it to me. Thankfully someone pulled it back and locked it in a room. I will admit the owner was not a good person though, so it possibly had not been properly socialized.

I just adopted a shelter Golden Retriever. Unfortunately most if not all of the shelter pit bulls are not coming from families in economic distress. Most if not all are rescued when the cops break up a dog fighting ring. Then you get animals bred and trained for aggression that frequently cannot be fostered nor retrained. It's a major problem. The ones that aren't any good for fighting but survive their experiences in the ring get abandoned. These animals just don't make good family dogs.

My previous Golden would let anyone in the house. Possibly if one of us were attacked she might have done something, as it never happened I can't say. Her shining moment of bravery came when she drove away a bear from the back door, and she was terrified of bears. She was also grateful to be on the other side of the glass door from it.


First I am very sorry that you have those memories, That dog was very likely not socialized or worse was trained improperly as a guard dog. Second I'd like to say you are way way way off on your statement that most if not all pits in shelters are from fights. I don't know when the last time you visited a shelter was, But almost every pit I have ever seen in a shelter besides 2 that were confiscated from a drug dealer and "possibly used for fighting" (they weren't dog aggressive at all, just had been abused) Have all been either strays that were found and brought in by people or family pets that had to be given up due to unfair housing policies, Unlawful changes in insurance policies, And breed specific Legislation forcing them to have to give up their animals. I have volunteered at three different Shelters and have yet to see this "most if not all of them" as fighters. You should check with a local shelter sometime and see how many of their pits have been taken from dog fighting rings. The numbers are Shockingly low for the amount if pits that are taken in and euthanized because they can't get most of them adopted out. Alot of america thinks like you, But you should really do your research and check, Because I guarantee you'll be surprised at what you find.


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Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 3:26:21 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

LaTigresse, I think you have some very conflicting views on what I am trying to do with this petition and I don't think you fully understand that there is nothing wrong with any breed of dog, There is nothing about any specific breed that merits any special precautions aside from the fact that every single dog, regardless of breed must be properly trained and socialized, or they will become a detriment to Society. And breed specific Legislation does nothing but put blame on dogs that have done nothing to deserve the hatred they get.



No, I don't have any conflicting views at all. As a person that has trained in handling and rehabilitating animals, specifically agressive dogs, I am quite aware of the problem.

Not all breeds of dog have the same mindset. Dog breeds were created with specific usage in mind. Some breeds were created to be lap dogs, pets. There were bred for a docile temperment. Other breeds were created to be guard dogs and herding dogs, they were bred with less a concern for their ability to be social and friendly. It is a reality that some breeds will have a stronger tendency for aggression, that is what the breed was created for!

The problem lies in people wanting specific breeds to be "cool". The last decade or so, the gangster image of cool was to have some of the breeds that were bred to guard and fight. Yet these same people, gave zero thought to whether it was smart to bring those dogs into an urban environment where the very nature of what they were bred to do, was not exactly the type of dog you should have. Unless of course you want a badass guard dog enclosed in a 6 foot high fence.

I hope I am making myself clear. No, I do not BLAME the dog breed, I blame people that think they can have any breed of dog, regardless of what they were created to do, and treat them as though they were a breed that was created to be a family pet. Granted, there are many "dangerous" breeds that are delightful pets, AND there are many family pet breeds that either through bad breeding, or poor socialization, will be a less than stellar canine citizen.

Please, come to the shelters I work with. See the animals that I have to work with, and rehabilitate. I guaranfuckintee, the greater percentile are breeds that the people that either had taken away, or surrendered, they should have never got in the first place.  Including my personal favourite breed, the german shepherd. The overwhelming percentage of dogs I work with, that have aggression problems are as follows, pitbulls, rottweilers, german shepherds, minature pinschers, and labs. Whether you like it or not, there are some breeds that are more aggressive. It is simply a fact.

As for my suggestion, you mistook the intent. The best way to stop something you dislike (the issue of your petition), is to offer a solution to the problem. I offered a solution. It may not be your personal ideal, but it is a middle ground to offer the other side.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Mellissande)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 4:02:43 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


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When I was small, my grandmother had a Pom who didn't like anybody to put their face near hers.  I remember being told repeatedly not to do that & deciding that the dog might bite others, but most definitely wouldn't bite me.  Well, she did bite me & I have a scar on my upper lip to this day from that.  I never developed a fear of dogs, nor was the dog put down because she did that.  It was totally my fault & I accepted the responsibility even being that small.  I remember feeling badly because I was afraid they'd get mad at the dog!!

My little guy was startled in his sleep by my grand niece running by & he reflexively lunged at her, snapping at her diaper.  He didn't bite her or even the diaper, but my sister never trusted him after that.  He was overtired & over-stimulated, but I watched him like a hawk around little ones.

< Message edited by LinnaeaBorealis -- 3/24/2009 4:26:19 PM >


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(in reply to Mellissande)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 5:42:15 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

Please help me stop Breed Specific Legislation, Use this thread to help spread awareness of the issue and if you like, Debate about the problems with BSL. This petition is mine, I wrote and put it together. If you could please sign it and pass it on to anybody you know who would be willing to sign it as well.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust

help stop the needless killing of thousands of family pets. It is just a petition, You don't need to sign up for anything, You will not get any e-mails except for a confirmation that you signed. Maybe you don't have a bully breed now, But if you don't stand up now, Who's going to stand up for you when your dog is being banned?


Pit bulls (can be) dangerous.

Pit bull owners...all the more so.

If someone wants to stop pit bulls from my neighborhood (since I can't control stupid owners)...I'm all for it.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/24/2009 6:09:34 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

Second I'd like to say you are way way way off on your statement that most if not all pits in shelters are from fights. I don't know when the last time you visited a shelter was,


I was in the shelter ten days ago when I adopted this Golden. I will say that I live in a area that has a great deal of rural poverty. City shelters won't have as many dog fight rescues because this may well be more of a rural problem. As I'm in a rural area, we may have more than our fair share of dog fights and cock fight rings.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 1:30:45 PM   
BlackPhx


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quote:

There are a few other breeds that should be included, as being "known aggressive breeds", including collies, akitas, and labrador retrievers.
[ORIGINAL: purepleasure

Akitas do tend to be animal aggressive, they don't like other dogs on their property and can even snap at one another even though raised together. They can also be some of the most loving, intelligent, loyal, protective, and calm dogs I have ever owned. Right now we are fostering a female Akita rescued from the shelter and will probably end up keeping her along with our male. Yes they have had their posturing days and two fights, both of which they stopped the minute I ordered them out of it. Keiko is extremely protective of both Buttah and I and warily watches anyone who comes to the house, but isn't aggressive about it. You just know she has an eye on you. She is also a kisser, rides in the car without complaint for hours or bouncing around, goes to her bed when ordered to and takes food offered as gentle as a kiss. She has learned most of this since we have had her. Komodo is a good ol' boy in attitude and has a wicked sense of humor. He is constantly laughing at life, gently moves you away from me if you are yelling and waving your arms by leaning against your knees and using all 150 lbs to move you back. The entire time he wags his entire body as if to say sorry but I have to do this...No offense.

They like any other breed of dog are the product of their upbringing. Establish yourself as alpha, maintain that position, and train them without abuse and you have a companion that can't be beat. In Japan they were bred to hunt bear and deer, work as farm dogs protecting the home, and even as babysitters while the parents worked around the house and farm. A large breed, they tend to lay out of the way in a house where they can see you but not be underfoot.

The worst thing that happens is that a breed becomes popular. The minute they do (winning Westminster can be the downfall of a breed, or having a Prominent Person like a President keep them) the puppy mills go into overdrive and indiscriminate breeding occurs. Excessive Inbreeding, breeding of those with genetic disorders (hip displasia, deafness, blindness, skin conditions, asthma, heart disease) and behavior problems are almost standard with puppy mill dogs. They have produced Springer Spaniels and Cocker Spaniels (soft mouthed dogs) that are neurotic and biters, Collies whose skulls are so narrow there is barely room for intelligence, Deaf Dalmatians, Overly aggressive Bull Terriers and Miniature Pinschers, Shar Pei with turned eyelids and skin problems and and a myriad of others. A good many of these are the ones you hear about biting, rampaging  etc. Patronizing pet shops that buy from puppy mills encourages these problems.

Know your breed and their requirements. Border Collies with no work to do become problem dogs, their instinct is to herd and they are nippers..it is what they were bred to do to move sheep and cattle where the herder wanted them. Collies were not bred to nip but to intimidate with size, Akita's to protect and hunt, Springers and Cockers to hunt birds, The Majority of the Terrier breeds were bred to keep down vermin (rats, weasels, mice to name a few). Knowing the breeds history can save you a lot of time and grief as you train your own dog. Very few breeds were designed to lay up on a couch and eat doggie treats all day. They need to work or be exercised in ways that use their instinct under your control.

Your Control.

Despite what many "group classes" will tell you, not every dog is going to respond to the same type of training. Know the psychology of the breed as well as the individual and train with that in mind. Some dogs will work for 30 minutes to learn something and do it every day until they get it right. An Akita for example will learn in 15 minutes, do the exercise only as long as it amuses him, but won't forget the training. Remember how much you hated learning things by rote? So do they. Teach and move on and they will learn a tremendous amount in a short period of time. It took 10 minutes for me to teach Keiko where her bed was and what the command go to bed meant. She obeys it immediately, sometimes reluctantly, but obeys. The same with Komodo who didn't even have the command Sit in his language when we got him.

Bad Breeds? No. Bad Dogs, yes, Bad Owners definitely, Many who don't think they ARE Bad Owners..but if you don't take the time to train your dog, to socialize him and to BE the Alpha you are a Bad Owner.

I will fight against Breed Specific Legislation every time it comes up. It is hard enough dealing with the Home Owners Insurance companies without giving them State Sanctioned reasons to deny people insurance.

More Mutts have bitten people than all of those breeds combined, but they don't make the news. More Miniature/Toy Poodles, Pomeranian and Chihuahua have chewed on people of all ages than the others combined, BUT, they can't do the amount of damage the bigger breeds can so generally the wound is cleaned, an antiseptic salve is put on it and a band aid applied without a bite report. It doesn't make them any less dangerous. Often they are fear biters..you are so much bigger, your a threat and they attack instead of running.

I really wish people would stop blaming the animal for their own actions or lack thereof. The breed ain't bad, just as no race is bad..but there are bad dogs and people in both.

poenkitten

< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 3/25/2009 1:35:42 PM >

(in reply to purepleasure)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 1:49:19 PM   
purepleasure


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poen,

My cousin's akita was socialized with other dogs.  My extended family has had boxers, collies, german shepards, labradors, akitas( a different one), huskies, poodles, border collies, shih tzus, bichons, mutts.  In the past it was "nothing" for us to grab the dogs and head to the dog parks... for those that didn't have fenced yards, or visit those of us that did/do have fenced yards... so the dogs could run free without leashes.

It gave the humans a chance to catch up with each other, and the dogs to get some extra exercise.

My point is, with some breeds, it's impossible to tell if they will become agressive with no provocation.  The victim and its owner were taking a walk.  That's all.  And I stand by my statement of "known aggressive breeds" should be registered in the municipality in which they reside.  Had it been a child on a bicycle instead of a neighbor taking their dog for a walk, it would have been no less horrific.

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 2:31:19 PM   
BlackPhx


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However Pure..they are not talking about registering the dogs (which is already in place with required Licenses. Microchipping, Rabies tags, etc.). They are systematically state by state trying to BAN them completely. IF they succeed there will be no Akitas, Dobermans, Shepherds, Pit Bulls, Shar Peis or any other breed or dog that contains even one of those breeds in their ancestry they decide is to dangerous to live in that state. Everyone owning one will be required to either move to a state that still allows them, keep them as contraband or put them to sleep, no matter if the dog is a good citizen or not. That is a far different story from registering them like a hand gun, which is already in place and if you own one of those breeds or a mix with them, you are already paying a premium on your insurance if they know about it.

I would hate to see a friend of mine give up his therapy dog just because she is an Akita or the hundreds of Blind who have Guide Dogs who just happen to be German Sheperds. I would hate to see thousands of dogs destroyed because they are no longer allowed in a state and there is no place for them to go.

poenkitten


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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 2:38:13 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

Please help me stop Breed Specific Legislation, Use this thread to help spread awareness of the issue and if you like, Debate about the problems with BSL. This petition is mine, I wrote and put it together. If you could please sign it and pass it on to anybody you know who would be willing to sign it as well.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust

help stop the needless killing of thousands of family pets. It is just a petition, You don't need to sign up for anything, You will not get any e-mails except for a confirmation that you signed. Maybe you don't have a bully breed now, But if you don't stand up now, Who's going to stand up for you when your dog is being banned?


Pit bulls (can be) dangerous.

Pit bull owners...all the more so.

If someone wants to stop pit bulls from my neighborhood (since I can't control stupid owners)...I'm all for it.



I beg your pardon, pits can be dangerous with stupid owners, don't throw us all into one pile,I own 5 pits 4 females and one male .they are trained to do what I need for them to do..I suspect that those that all ready own said dogs will be grandfather in some way..Bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 2:44:40 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
Bounty not the way they have been writing this legislation...IF the Bans go through the dogs are gone unless you continue to own one illegally OR..in some states you can put up a cash bond (around 50K has been proposed) per animal as a guarantee against them biting another dog or person. Not too many people can afford that.

poenkitten

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 2:47:38 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx

Bounty not the way they have been writing this legislation...IF the Bans go through the dogs are gone unless you continue to own one illegally OR..in some states you can put up a cash bond (around 50K has been proposed) per animal as a guarantee against them biting another dog or person. Not too many people can afford that.

poenkitten



Thays just sucks,I am glad that I live in WV where as long as your dog is kenneled or chained you can own 5 with my kennel breeder lis I can own up to 30..I shall help in any way I can just ask..BH

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 40
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