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Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these?


Husky
  9% (4)
American Staffordshire/english Staffordshire terrier
  2% (1)
American pit bull terrier
  17% (7)
Rottweiler
  9% (4)
Doberman Pinscher
  2% (1)
ChowChow
  4% (2)
Great Dane
  7% (3)
Shar Pei
  0% (0)
Mix of any of the above
  17% (7)
none
  29% (12)


Total Votes : 41


(last vote on : 3/28/2009 7:21:32 AM)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 3:01:14 PM   
BlackPhx


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Sign the petition here http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust or at any of the Breed and Breed Rescue Sites. Be Proactive and let your representatives know you are opposed. I weep everytime I go up to the Akita Rescue in Jax, Fl. the woman who runs it Dorrie has over 60 Akitas (some special needs) looking for homes. One a beautiful little girl has learned to trust humans again thanks to her...http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9513211 is one of those that breaks my heart. She had every reason to hate humans and fear them, but once she knows and trusts you, she is the sweetest dog you would ever want to know.

poenkitten

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/25/2009 3:37:41 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


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Ok, I signed the petition.  I truly hope that this madness can be stopped.  I blame a lot of these kinds of things on the media-induced hysteria which is rampant in this country at this time.  I try to avoid the news media whenever I can because of crap like this.  They just seem to want to tell people what they want them to be upset about this week.  I prefer to do my own research & make my own decisions about issues.  Nothing I hate more than having a discussion with someone who spouts things directly from the news media as though they were original thoughts.  BAH!!!!!

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to BlackPhx)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 5:00:19 AM   
Mellissande


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

Please help me stop Breed Specific Legislation, Use this thread to help spread awareness of the issue and if you like, Debate about the problems with BSL. This petition is mine, I wrote and put it together. If you could please sign it and pass it on to anybody you know who would be willing to sign it as well.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust

help stop the needless killing of thousands of family pets. It is just a petition, You don't need to sign up for anything, You will not get any e-mails except for a confirmation that you signed. Maybe you don't have a bully breed now, But if you don't stand up now, Who's going to stand up for you when your dog is being banned?


Pit bulls (can be) dangerous.

Pit bull owners...all the more so.

If someone wants to stop pit bulls from my neighborhood (since I can't control stupid owners)...I'm all for it.



Hello, Are you saying that I'm inherently dangerous because I happen to have a pit mix and will eventually rescue more pits? How about the stupid lab owner down the street from you? or the idiot who doesn't know how to train his German shepard? Any owner can be dangerous. Not depending on what kind of dog they own, but whether they are educated in the ways of training animals. It's your mindset that fuels the media hype that puts bully breeds into a dangerous light. when investigated, About twenty five percent of the media reported "pit bull attacks" where actually pit bulls. When it was found that the dogs were not pit bulls, but had been misidentified, The media generally refuses to correct their statements. Dog bites don't sell stories, Pit bull bites do.


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 5:04:21 AM   
Mellissande


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Thank you for your support. Did you know that there is a bill right now in consideration to repeal the law in Florida that keeps them from passing BSL? As I'm in Kansas I'm probably not as well informed as you, But Florida is Home and if they start passing those laws there I don't know what I'll do. Let everybody you know in Florida know about the bill that's been put into consideration, If we don't fight it, Cities all over Florida will be allowed to pass Breed Specific Legislation.


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 5:20:28 AM   
Mellissande


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Thank you for signing Stop FL from removing the statewide prohibition of Breed Specific Legislation with HB 189 and SB 922

Search those, And you'll see what they're trying to do in Florida, Fast reply, I just wanted to find the bill numbers so You can see them


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 8:43:31 AM   
BlackPhx


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I have been an activist for this and a signer for Florida...I would much rather see if the dog has an unprovoked bite then the OWNER is fined and prohibited from owning another dog, with legal fines if they do so.

Why do I say unprovoked bites? Because though the bites that make the media are OFTEN unprovoked, hundreds of dogs die daily for defending themselves, their owners or homes. We have rowdy's here here who will throw rocks, oranges and poke sticks at dogs behind fences, figuring they are safe do so..after all there is a fence. They don't figure that a dog even a Jack Russell can clear a 6 foot fence if they really want to. I have seen the little escape artists jump as high as they can, catch the fence and climb over. When the rowdies are out, my dogs are in, I will not have them provoked into a bite. I will fight to the bitter end for my dogs, if someone breaks into my house or car and is bitten or if they are protecting me. I will also bring them in when those who are trying to make their dogs animal aggressive are out. They will deliberately run them along my fence line encouraging their dogs to posture and bark. When I can identify the dogs and owners I report them, because they are making their dogs dangerous to be around others.

poenkitten

(in reply to Mellissande)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 9:01:15 AM   
Mellissande


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Joined: 4/22/2007
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Wow, You're sure nice about it. If I had people trying to do that near my yard or to my dogs I'd be out there at least interrogating them or hold them there until police show up. I can't stand people who think it's "cool" when their dog barks and growls at other dogs or people. It's blatant disregard for safety and grounds for having your ability to own animals taken away. I hope that those bills don't pass, Like I said Florida is home for me. I'm fighting this from the outside in Kansas, But back home I know the people, I used to know some of our representatives personally. I just hope that they see how wrong it is and decide to let the law stand the way it is.

As for providing an alternative to BSL. I say any dog that is not being held by a licensed and respectable breeder should be spayed/neutered. That cuts down on aggression and the number of homeless pets will dramatically decrease every year. Every single dog should be microchipped and registered with the city, It's already the law to have them registered via rabies vaccine, But most places don't even enforce those laws, Why should they put one in place that does nothing but cost extra money, extra time, and Lots of lives? 1 out of every 600 pit bulls displaced by BSL ever finds a forever home. That is 599 dogs that will either be euthanized or tossed from home to home for the rest of their lives. Dogs that without BSL would have loving families and not have to worry about that gas chamber.


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 12:40:54 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


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Because my little guy grew up on the streets, he learned to be somewhat aggressive with other dogs.  I worked hard with him to alter that behavior.  Because it never could be completely altered, I didn't allow him to be off-leash much.  He liked and/or tolerated most other animals, but every now & again, he would meet one he just didn't like or felt the need to intimidate.  I never trained a dog before him.  I learned everything I could about training before& during our time together.  Just as I believe that it's child abuse to not teach your children boundaries, I believe that it's the worst animal abuse to not train them properly.

This is an issue about which I feel strongly & I appreciate the fact that you started this thread & the petition.  I hope that it makes people more aware of the reality of the issue and not to just accept at face value what the news media tells them.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to Mellissande)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 2:02:14 PM   
BlackPhx


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Linea..you bring up an interesting point.

Pure mentioned before that her relatives Akita tore into a Bichon Friese that was just walking down the street with his owner, pointing out that while the Akita was well socialized it just turned on this poor dog for no reason.

Dogs, like people and cats and other pets, don't always like one another. We don't expect every human to like every other human, and while we are capable of walking away , ignoring them or whatever, more than enough end up in the courts for fights, murder, etc. We are in control of our instincts (supposedly) yet, we have entire countries that war against others for racial or religious reasons.

Animals on the other hand are expected (for some stupid reason) to accept every dog or cat you bring in the house, or that passes by and pees on what it considers it's territory (a blatant insult and challenge in the animal world of marking territory) and be social with every other cat or dog despite their instinct to protect their pack, mate, cubs, turf or food. Why do we expect this?

I know this is not something I expect and I am very cautious in introducing Komodo and Keiko (Akitas) to other dogs, making sure I am in complete control of h/him. Bast our cat is an indoor/outdoor cat and there isn't another cat, dog, possum or raccoon she won't try and run off her turf. She doesn't always succeed but she will also back down from a fight when I call her (try teaching a cat that, it ain't easy). No matter how well socialized an animal is (and both accept the cat), they are going to eventually run into another dog/cat/etc that rubs them the wrong way, smells wrong, barks wrong or even just looks at them wrong. Some days it is just a really bad day for them, just like we have. It's not just the so called Bully Breeds, I have watched chihuahua launch themselves in rabid anger at dogs 3 times their size (usually the other dog looks bemused), beagles who are the ultimate pack dog tear into a dominance fight or fight over food, and a Saluki gut a Doberman over a female in heat in the park (Doberman started the fight, Saluki finished it). Instinct is instinct and animals are a bit closer than we are to it, though they at least don't burn down neighborhoods, hang people, or shoot them en mass.

The trick..be in control of your animal. On a leash except in areas they are permitted off, under voice control at all times, and behind a fence. Socialize them cautiously, be aware of their body language, they are very clear in their intent and give clear visible clues to their intent and how they are feeling. Don't give them mixed signals (often you do that without knowing it). When you tighten up on the leash and collar you are telling them you don't trust this animal coming towards you and they prepare to defend you and themselves. They take their clues from the alpha and if you aren't the Alpha they will fill the position and react as one. Correct them when behavior is not what you want, firmly without yelling, hitting or weapons. Both times Keiko and Komodo have gotten into it, I have been able to break it up with voice commands and a quick hand to the ruff nipping with my fingers. They break up immediately and when they have postured a voice command has been enough to send them to their safe spots. They will each then come to me in "puppy" apology mode, creeping and wiggling then licking. I have never hit either of them, never had a reason to, but I am quick to establish dominance the minute a dog enters my home. I can open their mouths and take food from it, treat a wound no matter how painful, brush them, handle their feet, clip nails etc, because as their Alpha it is my right. They never sleep on the bed or furniture, because that is for the Alpha pair and the Beta but they do sleep in the room, do not take food from the stove no matter how much they want it or beg. They eat last, not first.

Understand and be in control of your animal is something I preach constantly. Let your dog know you are Alpha, give him clear signals as to what you expect in behavior and remember to work with HIS instincts, not yours and even the "Bully Breeds" make wonderful safe pets.

poenkitten

< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 3/26/2009 2:08:01 PM >

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 6:06:58 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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I:LL make sure every one here at the circle c signs the bill and with so many friends in my hunting and showing circle I can all most guarantee at least 100  singnees..All of our dogs are trained to the max, all we have to do to get one out of danger or out of the way of another aggressive dog is to use the command "OUT" and they come and sit by our side...Again folks its the owners not the dogs  for most of the aggression is bred out of the aggressive hunting dogs especially the AKC, I would never buy a dog from an akc bloodline..My line of hounds and curs go back to my great grand father who had to have them to work the cattle and to protect them from the bears and cougars that live here long ago perhaps from my great great great. but haven't
been able to go back that far..first they want to take our guns now thats changed we can keep the guns but its going to be ever increasing harder to buy ammo in the not so distance future now our dogs damm I am ready to move to russia..I'LL be the first to admit dogs are dangerous in the wrong hands hell  all of Michale Vick's dog were rehabilitated with the exception of 3 one was unable to adjust and two were is such shape that they had to be put down,I will do all that I can to solve this problem not only with my mouth but my money as well..bounty

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 6:18:36 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mellissande

bksir, and Bear, You both convey very good points. These points of view are why I have put up this petition. I am not petitioning just to be able to keep my own dog, I am petitioning so that responsible owners never have to worry about their Pets being taken from them. I am petitioning for harsher laws on the people who abuse, abandon and neglect their animals. The laws being put into effect are doing nothing to stop the abusers, They are only punishing the animals themselves, 99% of whom haven't done anything to be punished for. If your dog bites someone, Yes that deserves punishment, Not only punishment of the dog, but also of the irresponsible owner, Because 9 times out of 10 if you take away the "aggressive dog" and put it to sleep, That owner is going to get another dog, Not train it properly and continue to pose a threat to the Human and animal community.

Bounty hunter, I'm glad you understand what I'm fighting for here, And Big beauty. You both see how kind your dogs are when trained and socialized properly, I know what you mean about the homeowners insurance, I have to have 300,000 property and liability insurance because My geronimo is a quarter pit, If he wasn't brindle you'd assume he was just another mutt.



WE love our baby's all of them and Diane would beat you to death with a fence post if anyone was caught abuse one of them yet I get the crap you hunt bear and hogs with then that abuse in which we reply that why they were bred to do a specific job..I can't find a link to the page to sign...I will get to it...

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 8:00:33 PM   
BlackPhx


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Here is one site Bounty http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/Locations/USLocations.htm that lists the states currently considering BSL. This link gives information to help fight BSL http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/BSLindex.htm and Mellissandes petition http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust .

For those actually interested in the Statistics, this paper breaks it down nicely

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

What NONE of the Statistics show anywhere, is the population numbers of the breeds..take my own the Akita.. 48 attacks, resulting in 1 death, 39 maiming, 8 apparently no damage, in a 24 year period for the US and Canada.  It sounds like a lot until you realize that Orlando had 21 Murders for 2008 and 2316 Aggravated Assaults in that same year. The Akita rescue group I work with has 60 dogs alone, another 20 fostered out and there are Breed Rescues everywhere. I estimate the population of Akitas for Florida to be easily 5000 (a rather small number considering the population density), unknown so far across the US and Canada..so we are not talking a large percentage of dogs attacking from this breed in 24 years. Most of the dogs at the Akita Rescue have been abused, mistreated or owned by people who fell in love with the fuzzy fur ball  puppy sooo cute and didn't realize they were going to grow up to be a 80-120 lb dog that would dominate the home if they weren't strong enough and consistant enough to train them and take the Alpha position. Heck when we got Komodo sit was not a command he knew, nor heel or anything else and he was almost 2 years old and he is pretty typical of the dogs that get dumped at the shelter or rescue from this breed.

Can't we just ban bad owners...or people...the dogs are doing a lot better than we are in NOT harming us.

poenkitten




< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 3/26/2009 8:02:19 PM >

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 9:36:00 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx

Here is one site Bounty http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/Locations/USLocations.htm that lists the states currently considering BSL. This link gives information to help fight BSL http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/BSLindex.htm and Mellissandes petition http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust .

For those actually interested in the Statistics, this paper breaks it down nicely

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

What NONE of the Statistics show anywhere, is the population numbers of the breeds..take my own the Akita.. 48 attacks, resulting in 1 death, 39 maiming, 8 apparently no damage, in a 24 year period for the US and Canada.  It sounds like a lot until you realize that Orlando had 21 Murders for 2008 and 2316 Aggravated Assaults in that same year. The Akita rescue group I work with has 60 dogs alone, another 20 fostered out and there are Breed Rescues everywhere. I estimate the population of Akitas for Florida to be easily 5000 (a rather small number considering the population density), unknown so far across the US and Canada..so we are not talking a large percentage of dogs attacking from this breed in 24 years. Most of the dogs at the Akita Rescue have been abused, mistreated or owned by people who fell in love with the fuzzy fur ball  puppy sooo cute and didn't realize they were going to grow up to be a 80-120 lb dog that would dominate the home if they weren't strong enough and consistant enough to train them and take the Alpha position. Heck when we got Komodo sit was not a command he knew, nor heel or anything else and he was almost 2 years old and he is pretty typical of the dogs that get dumped at the shelter or rescue from this breed.

Can't we just ban bad owners...or people...the dogs are doing a lot better than we are in NOT harming us.

poenkitten





Damm its scary, 12 citys in my state either have a law in place or are considering one...I can't believe a redneck state like WV would let the aholes get away with this..I am calling our local shelter manger tomorrow to see what can be done and sending an email out to our senators..bounty 

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RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 9:48:10 PM   
Mellissande


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http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf 
Unfair and Extremely biased account by a person CLEARLY not familiar with the breeds he/she is speaking about. The dog bites reported also were not documented properly, They only looked for bites by specific breeds of dogs. States that it is difficult to guage a pit bull's aggression because of the "popular method of cropping their tails" Pit bulls and amstaffs, Have never had their tails docked and it goes well against breed standard to do so. This article is Clearly pulled out the ass of Some reporter with a hatred for any large breed of dog.

I read a breakdown of the lies reported in that article, I have to find it again, But the statistics where taken from random hospitals, and the breeds for some of the attacks were made up as bully breeds when the attack was actually by unknown breeds. The person who wrote that article and "collected evidence" if you can call it that, Was not in it for the best interest of anyone but their pocket, And I'd like to see where they got a degree in animal psychology to determine the mindset of multiple different breeds s/he'd obviously had no experience with.

Bounty, I told you this BSL is sweeping the nation and causing irreparable damage to thousands of families. Some states have laws that stop BSL from ever happening, But like in FL they're trying to overturn those laws. Thank you for having your friends sign the petition. I don't know if I can do any good with this but I'm going to do my damndest to get this petition up to 100,000 signatures and go before Congress to fight this. Our dogs give us their all, They show us the deepest loyalty and affection we could ever ask for and I refuse to turn my back on them when They can't fight for themselves. They'd defend us to the death, Shouldn't we at least try to do the same for them?!


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 9:52:32 PM   
Mellissande


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Breed     % vs Population Registered               # of Reported Attacks                                                     Population
Approx 240,000
12
Chow Chow .005%
Approx 800,000
67
German Shepherd .008375%
Approx 960,000
70
Rottweiler .00729%
Approx 128,000
18
Great Dane .01416%
Approx 114,000
14
Doberman .012288%
Approx 72,000
10
St. Bernard .0139%
Approx 5,000,000
60
Pit Bulls .0012%

This is from the MABBR link http://www.mabbr.org/legislation2.html

That's something to think about. That shows population versus number of bites.

Edited because the table didn't show upright


< Message edited by Mellissande -- 3/26/2009 10:05:09 PM >


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

(in reply to FelineFae)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/26/2009 9:57:25 PM   
Mellissande


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http://www.atts.org/stats1.html


This link shows the average aggression stats for many breeds of dogs, The results will ASTOUND you. Pit bulls register as less aggressive than Golden Retrievers.


_____________________________

Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken.
— jack Kerouac

(in reply to Mellissande)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/27/2009 1:40:04 AM   
WyldHrt


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Here's one that may help some people understand the words "breed misidentification" as regards dogs involved in biting incidents:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
How many people are able to spot the real pit bull on the first try?
I used to use this "game" all the time when talking to people who believe everything the media says about pit bulls.

Fun with breed ID mistakes:
- The rescue I used to volunteer with got a call about 2 loose pit bulls and a chow chasing people at a park (animal control hadn't responded). The available folks loaded up, went to the park, and captured 2 jack russell terriers and a pomeranian that were, indeed, running loose and aggressively chasing children.
- On a trip to Morro Bay with a friend and our 3 dogs, this man comes up saying, "Oh, what a gorgeous pit! Is he friendly?" Ummm.... he? We looked at each other and I said, "Which dog are you referring to?" He pointed at Traffic, my friend's 115lb presa canario. Informing him that Traf wasn't a pit bull and that my 65lb female was started an argument,  wherein he said things like, "You're wrong, I know a pit bull when I see one, and he's a pit." and "The girl is too small and doens't have the right ears." Oh, I see. My girl's ears were not cropped, and Traf's were, making him a pit bull and her, apparently, a golden retriever or something. 
- A friend of mine is an AC officer in Washington state. She also happens to be a rather famous dog trainer, specializing in pit bulls. One day while she was answering the phones, she got a call about a blood covered, aggressive pit bull on someone's property that was threatening people and would not leave. She asked if the caller was sure the dog was a pit bull and got an emphatic "yes". All the AC trucks happened to be out at the time so, figuring the dog was a pit, my friend grabbed a leash, strapped a vari-kennel in her truck and took off. She arrived on the scene to find the caller locked in the house screaming... and a very large, mangy, and aggressive purebred dalmation (with a rash on it's throat, hence the "blood covered" part) on the front porch. Long story short, she captured the dog, but got bitten in the process. That was one of only two bites she received in her entire career, and she still curses herself for believing the caller when she said the dog was a pit bull.

To the OP- Online petitions mean less than nothing to gov't officials, as they are too easy to fake. Real paper petitions are a different matter, even if they have 1/10 the number of signatures. Better still are letters written to said gov't officials that are factual and well thought out. Here is a link to an excellent site with info that can be included in such letters:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/legislation.php
Check out the full site and the sister sites. Veronique has done an excellent job in getting the info needed out there.

LAT had a very good point about offering solutions, as things like that tend to make those in charge more receptive. Personally, I know very few rescue folk or responsible owners that would not support a law requiring people who want to own certain breeds to take a class and pass a test. Not only would is assuage the pro ban idiots a bit, it would also help the breeds in question if they could be kept out of the hands of idiots who have not clue 1 about what dog owndership entails, or the requirements of the breed they THINK they want to own.  While it would be lovely if this were a requirement for ALL dog owners, it's our breeds under the gun right now. Being proactive and supportive of things like permits, limitations on breeding, and bringing criminal charges against idiot owners whose dogs do damage because of their negligence shows the "powers that be" that most of us are responsible people who take animal ownership seriously.

As an aside, I noted a statement in an above post that said, in essence, that no dog suddenly becomes dog aggressive. This is untrue. Breeds with a tendency for dog aggression (pit bulls being one, but nowhere near the only one) will often get along with other dogs when young, but decide at some point (usually upon reaching full sexual maturity) that dogs of the same sex, or even all other dogs, become hard limits for them. This is common in several breeds, and something that owners should be aware of. Denying the nature of a breed does not help, understanding it does. That said, many people confuse dog aggression with human aggression, leading to statements like, "What if it had been a child on a bike instead of a man walking his dog". This is apples to oranges, really. While a particular dog may be both human and animal aggressive, one does not necessarily indicate the other.

Finally, I will suggest that the best thing for anti-BSL dog owners to do is get their well trained, friendly dogs out there and into the spotlight. I took my girl everywhere with me, and her awesome disposition and excellent manners changed many people's minds about what a "pit bull" really is. I took her to dog shows, obedience training demonstrations, and agility competitions (she was quite dog aggressive to other females from age 2, but desensitization training allowed her to walk comfortably and calmly beside me through the crowds of people and dogs) and had her temperament tested in public. I took her to the park and watched the kids crack up as she negotiated the slides and jungle gyms and then mob her when she was done, which she truly loved. I took her to eateries with outdoor seating, street fairs, fast food drive thrus (where she mooched extra fries whenever possible), parties (with the hosts' permission), anywhere and everywhere. I even took her to work with me once, and nearly pissed myself laughing while watching 65lbs of pit bull ooze her way onto my boss' lap so she could pin his shoulders with her paws and give him a good "face-erasure" licking (damned good thing he had an akita at home, lol). Our dogs are "positive press" opportunities with feet if we give them the chance. I had my girl for 13 years, and in that time she won many hundreds of people over to our side of the BSL fight by just being who she was, a real live pit bull with the proper temperament for her breed.

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(in reply to Mellissande)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/27/2009 5:40:24 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
Wyld..I am one of those who does well in visually identifying dogs and crossbreeds and I know I miss a few. The crossbreeds can be the hardest because far distant ancestry can show up in conformation and silhouette easily. Bouvier from Briard, Presa Canario from English Bull Mastiff  and so forth are all easy , and often owners are wonderfully surprised when I complement their dog by Breed. When I call animal control about a loose dog, they get a full description, color, size, approximate weight and direction headed with sex identification if I am close enough to see or it is marking territory.

Yes the numbers in that report are badly slanted..but here is the amusing part..as badly slanted as they were and as much as the person wanted to make it seem bad (insurance company get more money bad. Support BSL bad) he STILL could not come up with numbers that said this or that breed is killer dangerous. 24 years, 2 countries, and we humans were doing more damage in a single 6 month period to each other according to the FBI Preliminary statistic report. Jacksonville, Florida from January to June 2008 4020 violent crime with 49 murders in a population of 797, 350 that does not include Rape or Aggravated Assault. St. Louis MO which has a population of 348,197, 48 thousand people more than the number of Hybrid Wolves population he quotes for the 24 year period, from January to June 2008 reported 3507 violent crimes and 86 murders in 6 months. These are statistics you can take to your legislators, look up your states and cities and make your own comparisons. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2008prelim/index.html

And yes again certain breeds more than others can become animal aggressive, but again it is individuals within the breed, NOT all of the breed. Just like it is certain people in a population that commits violence against another human, not all people. Know your breed, know your dog, be in control of it. I can easily tell when either of my Akitas is having a "bad, got up on the wrong side of the rug day" and I can see the warning signs that one is feeling less than friendly towards to other at the moment and nip it in the bud. Voice, separating them, making sure only one is in motion at one time goes a long way towards a peaceful house. Komodo hates Pits (I have no idea why, he was almost 2 when we got him and no history on him) but has learned when the pack of Pits around the corner is being walked, come to the door and come inside. He does this without fail, turning his back on them now, and it took a lot of training to get him to that point. Like Bounty all I have to command is Out and he will break away from a fight/posturing no matter who the aggressor is.

Take a class to own a breed, I agree with..BUT I also think an awful lot of people buying small dogs and "designer dogs" (mutts) should also be taking classes. I doubt however that will come about no matter how much better it would be for our furry friends. Too many people rely on crate (I hate it and refuse to use them) training and refuse to put the dog through obedience classes already, then dump the dog at the shelter because it doesn't listen to them, tears things up or is trying to control the household.

poenkitten









< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 3/27/2009 5:41:26 AM >

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/27/2009 12:29:33 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline
Wyld, I'm just adoring you more & more.  I got the pit bull on the second try.  When I had Coco & the apt management was telling me I had to get rid of her due to her breed, my nephew suggested that I tell them she was some other cross-breed.  I showed her to him & asked what breed he thought I could pass her off as.  He replied, "Pit bull."  She was a classic example of the breed.  I loved reading about your girl, because I know after years of experience just how sweet natured these dogs can be.  Poor Coco had been abused & neglected her whole life, but she adored me & my little guy.  She bonded with me so quickly after I began to give her boundaries & to train her.   She was elderly when she came into my life, but so eager to please.  She had never been taught to walk on a leash so that was a huge challenge.  I only had her for a few weeks, but by the time I found her forever home, she was very easy to walk & had stopped trying to drag me down the street. 

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(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? - 3/27/2009 2:37:11 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
The sad part is they tend to lump Staffordshire Bull Terriers into the classification American Pit Bull and while they are cousins, the Staffy is a slightly smaller dog with a decent temperament. However everyone sees the classic head and wham..they are labeled. I have known some very sweet Staffies, British and US versions. They are so close visually that the UK Dangerous Dog Act which bans Pit Bulls, has spawned a spate of "Staffordshire attacks" which are more likely Pit Bulls hiding under the name. Most shelters don't even make the distinction here. Australia, England, and New Zealand make clear a distinction between the American Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier and thus the Staffies are exempted from Breed Specific Legislation.

Glad you could give one a hand up Linea.

poenkitten

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 60
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