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RE: Hard limits. - 1/26/2006 7:57:24 PM   
Tapestry


Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet
Well, my Captain and i love sexual adventures. FFM, MFM, MFMF, those kinds of things.. Recently he's been toying with the idea of us playing seperately from each other. i just don't want to be with anyone alone, nor can i stand the thought of him being with someone without me there.

i seem to have developed a green streak a mile wide.

What you mean is, he's been toying with the idea of fucking other women without having you around, and trying to make things seem more appealling by getting you to fuck other people when he's not around.

But it's not appealling because you enjoy those things only because he is also a part of it and would feel the relationship had been violated, as well as less meaningful in his life if he fucked another woman without needing/wanting you there.

You guys have a lot of talking ahead. Figure out exactly why he wants it, exactly what it means and what it doesn't mean to him. Make sure you communicate what it means and how it makes you feel. See the positives and the negatives.

And then decide if this is a relationship that will make you fulfilled.

As usual, LA has certainly hit the nail on the head here. You need to talk and communicate and work on this together. Your feelings are fine, we are all allowed to have feelings, there is no right or wrong, they just are. If his being with someone else will bring you pain, and he chooses to go ahead anyway, you will decide if it's an acceptable level of pain or not. Either way, it's ok, and it's not a question of being submissive. We are all different and have different needs, if his needs and your needs are irreconcilable, then it may be time to move on.

No need to be ashamed of, feel guilty for, or feel bad about your feelings. Feel them, and decide how you will proceed based on what fulfills you. i am still not comfortable enough to even engage in simple MFM or FMF with my Master, even though He would very much enjoy this activity with me. But He is kind enough, and wise enough, and patient enough to wait until i am ready before He insists. Truly, there are Dominant men out there who value their submissive women and are willing to accept us and love us for who we are. i do in fact look forward to the day when i'm ready to participate in a 3-some with Him. Thankfully He is willing to give me time to heal the scars of my past.

Hang in there. It's not easy to discuss things like this with our Masters. We so very much want to please them. But if you don't tell him, he may go ahead with it, and your relationship may become damaged beyond repair. Good Luck!

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Hard limits. - 1/26/2006 8:03:12 PM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Well, my Captain and i love sexual adventures. FFM, MFM, MFMF, those kinds of things.. Recently he's been toying with the idea of us playing seperately from each other. i just don't want to be with anyone alone, nor can i stand the thought of him being with someone without me there.

i seem to have developed a green streak a mile wide.


I am not sure that I would define what you're feeling as a hard limit. maybe in time it will become that, but from what you describe, right now it's 1. A communication problem and 2. A conflict for you. To fix the communication problem, you must communicate :) your conflict over jealousy is another thing. It seems to me that just because we are all in sonewhat non-traditional relationships, we expect ourselves to throw all traditional feelings out the window, and especially can feel bad about being jealous.

A BDSM relationship is the same as a vanilla one, in the sense that we lower our boundaries, we trust, we make ourselves vulnerable. given all that, jealousy seems a perfectly understandable feeling. Try to see it as a good thing, a sign of the depth of your feelings, and then talk to the Captain about it.

good luck, keep us informed
Smythe




_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Hard limits. - 1/27/2006 6:36:05 AM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Do you have them? Are they physical, emotional or both?

i've come face to face with and emotional one recently and no matter what He tries or does, i can't seem to own up to the fact its there.

What do you all do when faced with a hard limit?


Everyone has limits; Masters/Dom's , submissives/slaves...no one is immune from that dreaded word :) What's important is that you recognize them and work on either removing them, or discovering why they can not be removed. From the sounds of it, your jealousy is the limit here. Find out why your jealous of the thought of him playing with others without you. No offense, but it really sounds like an insecurity on your part, and a desire to seperate or experiment on his.


_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Hard limits. - 1/27/2006 6:23:47 PM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Well, my Captain and i love sexual adventures. FFM, MFM, MFMF, those kinds of things.. Recently he's been toying with the idea of us playing seperately from each other. i just don't want to be with anyone alone, nor can i stand the thought of him being with someone without me there.

i seem to have developed a green streak a mile wide.

What you mean is, he's been toying with the idea of fucking other women without having you around, and trying to make things seem more appealling by getting you to fuck other people when he's not around.

But it's not appealling because you enjoy those things only because he is also a part of it and would feel the relationship had been violated, as well as less meaningful in his life if he fucked another woman without needing/wanting you there.

You guys have a lot of talking ahead. Figure out exactly why he wants it, exactly what it means and what it doesn't mean to him. Make sure you communicate what it means and how it makes you feel. See the positives and the negatives.

And then decide if this is a relationship that will make you fulfilled.



In His defense, His fantasy of me being with other men has been there right from the start of our relationship. No, it hasn't happened and it remains a fantasy for Him.

It's just now that He has brought up His being with another woman. i find i can't handle it. Yes, we've discussed it and He says we'll work on my jealousy.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Hard limits. - 1/27/2006 6:28:41 PM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes


quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixslave

i agree with bita truble. hard limits were discussed long ago and don't come up.


Same here...it's not up for consideration, negotiated, pushed, tested or ever been mentioned again since the very begining.


He knows all my hard limits.. that's why i put it the way i did about suddenly being faced with one. It came up in a simple conversation, had never come into the picture before and i'm afraid my reaction was less than He wanted. It's a brand new "limit" for me, one i never thought of before.

Does that make sense?

Yes, i know i need to discuss this with him.

(in reply to champagnewishes)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Hard limits. - 1/28/2006 8:01:30 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

I am not sure that I would define what you're feeling as a hard limit. maybe in time it will become that, but from what you describe, right now it's 1. A communication problem and 2. A conflict for you. To fix the communication problem, you must communicate :) your conflict over jealousy is another thing. It seems to me that just because we are all in sonewhat non-traditional relationships, we expect ourselves to throw all traditional feelings out the window, and especially can feel bad about being jealous.

A BDSM relationship is the same as a vanilla one, in the sense that we lower our boundaries, we trust, we make ourselves vulnerable. given all that, jealousy seems a perfectly understandable feeling. Try to see it as a good thing, a sign of the depth of your feelings, and then talk to the Captain about it.

good luck, keep us informed
Smythe


What I've learned is that its tricky, as the sub, to raise "issues." Technically, with the dynamics of a d/s relationship, the sub is supposed to be happy and able to live with everything when the DOM is happy. O, if only this were so.

Recently, I had a small problem with my own Mistress, enough of a problem to put me in a bad mood --- once I was there ---- I felt bound to bring it up, else the thing mushroom, else I keep it a bad secret from her.

To look back... my Mistress and I met ---- and there I am, aggravated with her. I was not aggravated for some noble reason, either. But...I could not shake it. So, I had to bite the bullet:

"I just have to say something.....I'm not in the best mood because..... I wish you had done "X"...... blah, blah, blah"

Somewhat related to the KoM thread, my Mistress got what I would call "defensive."

"I don't really see what the big deal is," or some such, she said. (getting agravated herself....)

The trick turned out to be this:

The moment the light bulb went on that I was not criticizing her, but talking instead about how what happened made me feel..... then we had a breakthrough. She didn't feel criticized (defensive) and I could raise the issue in a "work through it, constructive manner."

So, my advice is, tell the gold ole Captain how you feel. He needs to know, especially as the DOM, how what he does affects you and how it leaves you feeling. If what he does makes you feel like shit, he needs to understand that, so he can make some constructive changes.

Frame the issue in a way that he has an "out," aka, a way to make you happy and fix the problem. If he's willing to change for you, then you have something. If he's not, then you are going to have to adjust to him, which may or may not be possible. Either way, you've done your part and you've put him on notice.

In my situation, I was able to pipe up, weather a small storm, and move on with my Mistress. I felt a lot better, although I got tagged with the "complicated" label. O well, she loves me anyway, and that was very, very good news indeed. I learned I'm able to talk to her and she can deal with it. That is very cool territory indeed.


(in reply to Smythe)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Hard limits. - 1/28/2006 10:58:02 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Well, my Captain and i love sexual adventures. FFM, MFM, MFMF, those kinds of things.. Recently he's been toying with the idea of us playing seperately from each other. i just don't want to be with anyone alone, nor can i stand the thought of him being with someone without me there.

i seem to have developed a green streak a mile wide.


I would say that this is a sign to pull back a little bit and evaluate when and why you started feeling this way. Barrelling forward to the "next level" with feelings like this is a recipe for disaster.

Polys may be able to give you better advice on the emotions that go with sharing but from what I've seen this is normal at one time or another. Even secure relationships may meet that one person that just flips your switches wrong. I would say that your feelings are legitimate because they are yours but knowing why you feel that way is your path back to success. If you keep a journal look back and try to see where your feelings may have changed. If you don't keep a journal start one and see if you can write though how you feel, when you started noticing you felt that way, who you may have been around during this time and in theory you will notice a pattern.

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Hard limits. - 1/29/2006 2:29:11 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonNphoenix
quote:

My limits have changed with my growth and I have been the one to tell him that they have change.


Most definitely...it is natural and a positive for limits to change. It is a clear indication of our growth and understanding of ourselves. The one thing that remains constant however are my Hard Limits...these will never change as they involve things I personally find morally unacceptable in regards to myself, things that have a high possibility of causing adverse physical or long term medical ramifications and things that would have direct effects on my children.



_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


(in reply to DragonNphoenix)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Hard limits. - 1/29/2006 2:36:49 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Does that make sense?

Yes, i know i need to discuss this with him.


Yes, it definitley makes sense... and you have drawn an even more sensible concludion...

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Hard limits. - 1/29/2006 10:49:51 AM   
submissivemiss38


Posts: 40
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: Ottawa ,Ontario
Status: offline 		But He is kind enough, and wise enough, and patient enough to wait until i am ready before He insists. Truly, there are Dominant men out there who value their submissive women and are willing to accept us and love us for who we are. ( quoted by Tapestry)

That is the kind Of Dom that I am searching for....who will take me where I am at and grow with me..........I`ll get there eventually lol

_____________________________

From Mary in Ottawa..........

(in reply to champagnewishes)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Hard limits. - 1/29/2006 1:55:26 PM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		That's exactly what my Captain is like. He never really pushes anything past a specific point. He knows my limits and understands them. He takes his time and is patcient with me, slowly pushing me past those limits.

He's got me way past what i already thought were tough limits.. and i'm already reaching past others.


(in reply to submissivemiss38)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Hard limits. - 1/29/2006 2:35:18 PM   
LindaLashes


Posts: 170
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		I hit a hard limit last friday, it left me dissapointed, I cried afterwards from emotional stress.
The strange thing is that I want to try and stretch that limit again and proove that it´s not such a hard one. My desire to please my Mistress and prove my worth to her kind of drives me to it, also I want to challenge myself.

< Message edited by LindaLashes -- 1/29/2006 2:46:52 PM >

_____________________________

Smack me around and call me Suzy...

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Hard limits. - 2/26/2006 7:43:00 PM   
randsboy


Posts: 63
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Olympia WA
Status: offline 		Hard limits will only make a Master more interested in stretching them further once u get to know each other. In reality in my and MAsters relationship the only hard limit is 'no serviceing a female'. as we had both had a het marrage even though totally gay and both have children. The no female rule stands very hard.

_____________________________

randsboy

always home during the day and willing to play. I do not drive, but could host. color & ethnicity not a problem

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Hard limits. - 2/26/2006 9:29:22 PM   
Isara


Posts: 87
Joined: 2/4/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

Do you have them? Are they physical, emotional or both?

i've come face to face with and emotional one recently and no matter what He tries or does, i can't seem to own up to the fact its there.

What do you all do when faced with a hard limit?


Everyone has hard limits, be they the refusal to hurt a child? Kill someone, or rob a bank with a gun just because "Master or Mistress told me to." (Extreme I know, but it's something some don't consider)Hard limits exist in our vanilla lives just as much as they exist in our "kink" lives. I am always skeptical when people write to me and tell me they have "no limits" I generally write back with a "Then you will kill your family, after driving your car off a bridge, naked, covered in chicken feathers while singing "Happy Birthday" making sure it’s well documented for me then?" Of course they wouldn't. And if they would I'm scared and wouldn't want anything to do with them anyway. At the beginning of a relationship, or, during at times, hard limits are discussed. But they're never going to be pushed. How does that help? Mental scaring isn't what I'm after.

You're entitled to have your hard limits. I refuse to use needle play with my boys or girls, needles bring back memories from a traumatic experience for me, and I don't want to hurt them, or me by thinking I'm all knowing.

Being honest about our fears can be very hard. But because you're submissive doesn't mean you're a doormat, who has to put themselves-or their mental wellbeing at risk because they think it their duty. I as a dominant have that right also? To say no to doing something if it pushes all the wrong buttons.

Hard limits can become...less hard limits, but still, that doesn't always happen. Some limits are always going to remain hard. Dominants aren't mind readers; you've got to let us know what's going on. Trust your Dominant to care about you enough to want to ensure your mental/emotional wellbeing as well as physical wellbeing.

I think a lot of the time people get so caught up in the fantasy aspects of BDSM that they forget their 'humanity' for a time and are willing to compromise themselves. Just because I regard my boy or girl as a pet doesn't mean I want them in harms way if I've suggested something that is going to be too traumatic or disturbing for them.

Hell, if Morgan my cat could tell me she really hated something I'd probably listen...unless it was to do with the vet. Then, on that one I win. ;)

Regards.

Isara.


_____________________________

"I can't -- not just like that. I'm a complicated person, you see, Aunty... Sometimes I'm nice, and sometimes I'm nasty -- hee hee!...and sometimes I just like to sing little songs, like: "See the little goblin, see his little-- " Edmond Blackadder

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Hard limits. - 2/26/2006 10:40:36 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Isara


Everyone has hard limits, be they the refusal to hurt a child? Kill someone, or rob a bank with a gun just because "Master or Mistress told me to." (Extreme I know, but it's something some don't consider)Hard limits exist in our vanilla lives just as much as they exist in our "kink" lives. I am always skeptical when people write to me and tell me they have "no limits" I generally write back with a "Then you will kill your family, after driving your car off a bridge, naked, covered in chicken feathers while singing "Happy Birthday" making sure it’s well documented for me then?" Of course they wouldn't. And if they would I'm scared and wouldn't want anything to do with them anyway. At the beginning of a relationship, or, during at times, hard limits are discussed. But they're never going to be pushed. How does that help? Mental scaring isn't what I'm after.



Hate to disappoint you but i have no stated hard limits. my Master determines my hard limits to whatever HIS are. And HIS happen to be nothing illegal, no harming animals, elderly, children or human kind in general. So i won't be robbing any banks at any point. As for driving off a bridge, well Master has no use for a dead slave, particularly a slave as good as i am to him, so that won't be happening either. Maybe you can come up with some more realistic examples.

i am not a doormat either - far from it in fact, unless of course he has a need to wipe his feet


(in reply to Isara)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Hard limits. - 2/27/2006 2:15:32 AM   
Isara


Posts: 87
Joined: 2/4/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		[/quote]

Hate to disappoint you but i have no stated hard limits. my Master determines my hard limits to whatever HIS are. And HIS happen to be nothing illegal, no harming animals, elderly, children or human kind in general. So i won't be robbing any banks at any point. As for driving off a bridge, well Master has no use for a dead slave, particularly a slave as good as i am to him, so that won't be happening either. Maybe you can come up with some more realistic examples.

i am not a doormat either - far from it in fact, unless of course he has a need to wipe his feet


[/quote]

See? I've got to disagree with you on this, I'm not saying that your Master hasn't set your limits, because, well, ;) I don't know either of you.

However. Even in a M/s relationship, just because you are slave/sub/switch/dominant whatever, we don't give up that intrinsic part of ourselves that says "Hurting X" or doing "X" is wrong. Your master may have set your limits, but I doubt, even if you were with a different master, you'd be hurting animals etc.

The reason these examples were chosen? Was specifically because they -weren't- realistic. That extremity of them was used to make a point; people may say they have no hard limits. But I don't believe it's possible. I'd be worried about their mental health if they truly didn't have hard limits of any kind.

My point wasn't about Masters/Mistresses etc choosing limits for their slaves or subs. It was more about the innate 'humanity' we all have. Yes I've heard the argument that slaves aren't human but are rather property. They might be treated like a pet, or labeled property, but they -are- still human and have been raised in a society that has values, granted they vary from place to place, but value systems nevertheless, ideals and to varying extents morals.


_____________________________

"I can't -- not just like that. I'm a complicated person, you see, Aunty... Sometimes I'm nice, and sometimes I'm nasty -- hee hee!...and sometimes I just like to sing little songs, like: "See the little goblin, see his little-- " Edmond Blackadder

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Hard limits. - 2/27/2006 6:59:54 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Isara



See? I've got to disagree with you on this, I'm not saying that your Master hasn't set your limits, because, well, ;) I don't know either of you.

However. Even in a M/s relationship, just because you are slave/sub/switch/dominant whatever, we don't give up that intrinsic part of ourselves that says "Hurting X" or doing "X" is wrong. Your master may have set your limits, but I doubt, even if you were with a different master, you'd be hurting animals etc.

The reason these examples were chosen? Was specifically because they -weren't- realistic. That extremity of them was used to make a point; people may say they have no hard limits. But I don't believe it's possible. I'd be worried about their mental health if they truly didn't have hard limits of any kind.

My point wasn't about Masters/Mistresses etc choosing limits for their slaves or subs. It was more about the innate 'humanity' we all have. Yes I've heard the argument that slaves aren't human but are rather property. They might be treated like a pet, or labeled property, but they -are- still human and have been raised in a society that has values, granted they vary from place to place, but value systems nevertheless, ideals and to varying extents morals.



That's the whole point though, isn't it? If i were with a different Master, i may well HAVE limits. i am HIS, however. Owned by him. No limits to him (emphasis on the "him"). To me, "no limits" does not mean some unowned submissive person running around offering him/herself to anyone limit free - that would be ridiculous. Nor would i beg someone to own me who did not hold the same ethics and values that i do (see the ethics thread). So yes i suppose you could say i have limits; but only those which my Master has chosen for me. It happens to be, the man who owns me would not have me do those things you mentioned. So it is a moot point. i find it interesting, however, how passionate people get about this subject, as though those with stated limits really have to prove to those without stated limits must be mentally ill.


< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 2/27/2006 7:02:45 AM >

(in reply to Isara)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Hard limits. - 2/27/2006 12:30:52 PM   
typesgirl


Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		So much good advice already.

Hard limits are HARD limits...they don't get pushed or questioned unless they somehow cease to be HARD limits and only you can decide that. Any Dom who pushes limits that a sub has labeled as a Hard limit is doing something naughty and disrespectful to His own property. It's a No No

typesgirl

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Hard limits. - 2/27/2006 12:41:12 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		Hard limits??????? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Just kidding. i have a few. If they were not respected i would be very distressed. But they are very few as i wish to be as pliable and adaptable as possible. i agree with MH - communication - absolutely, positively critically important.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Hard limits. - 2/27/2006 1:49:10 PM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your replys.

The situation has been discussed and any misunderstandings taken care of..

Communication is the key in WIIWD right??

CP

(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 40
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