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RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:32:13 PM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Is not then, the "wanting to keep someone happy"--then a giving in, therefore not forcing?

 
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


No. it is not.  It is acceptance. I accept that the sun will rise tomorrow. Really nothing I can do about it.  I do not accept getting raped.  Pretty simple shit.


Dear Mr.Domiguy,

it is not acceptance atall, its survival, its getting the whole horrible invasion of youre body over with as quickly as possible so you can run home and shower the filth of youre skin and douche his diseased (possibly) slime out of youre cunt, even though you know the police need to swob you and pick around for pubic hairs... shudder.

hasnt happened to me, but i can imagine it.

it isnt simple shit atall.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:33:29 PM   
crazyredhead1957


Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe there are three kinds of forced;

The first… An act, a script, a scene, where both members know the wants and needs of the other and are accommodating.

The second…An act that is forced on the other but accepted willingly, even if disliked, because they feel acceptance is necessary to keep the relationship.

The third…An act that is forced without the agreement or acceptance of the other party and is against their will …a criminal offense.
Butch


kdsub, i agree completely.    i am fortunate in that, in BDSM, i have never had something truly forced on me.....#1 or #2 have happened, and otherwise my safeword has always been respected.  Even #2 also involves a willingness to comply, however coerced.  In vanilla life #3 has happened, and involves NO willingness..... believe me, i know the difference.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:41:40 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Is not then, the "wanting to keep someone happy"--then a giving in, therefore not forcing?

 
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


No. it is not.  It is acceptance. I accept that the sun will rise tomorrow. Really nothing I can do about it.  I do not accept getting raped.  Pretty simple shit.


Dear Mr.Domiguy,

it is not acceptance atall, its survival, its getting the whole horrible invasion of youre body over with as quickly as possible so you can run home and shower the filth of youre skin and douche his diseased (possibly) slime out of youre cunt, even though you know the police need to swob you and pick around for pubic hairs... shudder.

hasnt happened to me, but i can imagine it.

it isnt simple shit atall.


So when the big bad rapist comes up to you and says, "I'm going to rape you!" Do you just flop on your back, lift your skirt and start filing your nails?

Or do you say, "No. Mr. Rapsist I would prefer that you don't rape me today."  Then flop on your back, lift up your skirt and start filing your nails?

Bad analogy.  You are damaged. You don't care what happens to you anyways.  What is the difference if you are raped by a stranger or by some friend of your Dom's?  Your say means absoloutely nothing.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:42:51 PM   
crazyredhead1957


Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Is not then, the "wanting to keep someone happy"--then a giving in, therefore not forcing?

 
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


No. it is not.  It is acceptance. I accept that the sun will rise tomorrow. Really nothing I can do about it.  I do not accept getting raped.  Pretty simple shit.


Dear Mr.Domiguy,

it is not acceptance atall, its survival, its getting the whole horrible invasion of youre body over with as quickly as possible so you can run home and shower the filth of youre skin and douche his diseased (possibly) slime out of youre cunt, even though you know the police need to swob you and pick around for pubic hairs... shudder.

hasnt happened to me, but i can imagine it.

it isnt simple shit atall.


InTonguesslave, you are RIGHT.  It's not simple at all.  i've been there, done all that, and then the PTSD that never goes away.  Thank you so much for understanding.  *HUGS!!!*

(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:46:17 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Is not then, the "wanting to keep someone happy"--then a giving in, therefore not forcing?

 
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


No. it is not.  It is acceptance. I accept that the sun will rise tomorrow. Really nothing I can do about it.  I do not accept getting raped.  Pretty simple shit.


Dear Mr.Domiguy,

it is not acceptance atall, its survival, its getting the whole horrible invasion of youre body over with as quickly as possible so you can run home and shower the filth of youre skin and douche his diseased (possibly) slime out of youre cunt, even though you know the police need to swob you and pick around for pubic hairs... shudder.

hasnt happened to me, but i can imagine it.

it isnt simple shit atall.


So when the big bad rapist comes up to you and says, "I'm going to rape you!" Do you just flop on your back, lift your skirt and start filing your nails?

Or do you say, "No. Mr. Rapsist I would prefer that you don't rape me today."  Then flop on your back, lift up your skirt and start filing your nails?

Bad analogy.  You are damaged. You don't care what happens to you anyways.  What is the difference if you are raped by a stranger or by some friend of your Dom's?  Your say means absoloutely nothing.


You know what domi yes just flopping on your back and saying go ahead is sometimes a good plan. A rapist generally gets off on the fight back and the violence involved in raping someone. Take that power away from them and they got nothing.
I've been there, done that, worn the tshirt. This kind of topic really is one you should stay well away from when you know fuck all about.
Rape i mean, not the force topic of the thread.
 

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:51:16 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Oh domiguy... I typcially love your humor and such... but on this one... I just can't go along with that.

You state that someone is damaged and her say means nothing... well I may have a bit of baggage but I am not damaged and my say means a lot to me and I think a few will agree with me.

When the big bad rapist comes along you don't flop on your back and say get it over with.  You determine what is safe to do.  A certain look in their eye and you know you die if you do fight.  I would rather be raped than to die.  I have been there and I know this to be true.  Two men looked at me like that... my father and a rapist.  I knew from experience with my father.. you don't mess with that look, I don't care how tough you are.

Joking about rape domi... is nothing humorous to many of us who have been there whether we are sluts or damaged or not.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 3/25/2009 1:52:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 1:52:27 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		My comments might be a little skewed on this subject.  If this topic was derived from the thread I am thinking of, Cat is correct in saying there is no 'forcing' about it.  When it comes to things like forced femme when a male sub actually enjoys cross dressing, I find the term to be inaccurate.  Wanting the head space that it is something you are participating in against your will doesn't really wash when it's something that you are specifically asking to engage in.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 2:07:22 PM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Is not then, the "wanting to keep someone happy"--then a giving in, therefore not forcing?

 
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


No. it is not.  It is acceptance. I accept that the sun will rise tomorrow. Really nothing I can do about it.  I do not accept getting raped.  Pretty simple shit.


Dear Mr.Domiguy,

it is not acceptance atall, its survival, its getting the whole horrible invasion of youre body over with as quickly as possible so you can run home and shower the filth of youre skin and douche his diseased (possibly) slime out of youre cunt, even though you know the police need to swob you and pick around for pubic hairs... shudder.

hasnt happened to me, but i can imagine it.

it isnt simple shit atall.


So when the big bad rapist comes up to you and says, "I'm going to rape you!" Do you just flop on your back, lift your skirt and start filing your nails?

Or do you say, "No. Mr. Rapsist I would prefer that you don't rape me today."  Then flop on your back, lift up your skirt and start filing your nails?


Bad analogy.  You are damaged. You don't care what happens to you anyways.  What is the difference if you are raped by a stranger or by some friend of your Dom's?  Your say means absoloutely nothing.
 
youre ignorance and prejudice is astonishing - one of youre finer moments of ignorance and prejudice amongst an extraodinary selection of egocentric diabtribe - you think im damaged, i think youre damaged and bitter with an inherent mysogeny complex - go figure!
 
but in the end i dont give a shit what you think of me, im just not prepared to let you get away with being such a smuck on the coat tails of a topic you are not qualified to discuss or pass a judgement on.  
 
edited to remove angry response
 

< Message edited by InTonguesslave -- 3/25/2009 2:55:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 3:38:05 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
I am going to put out the premise that when one acquiesces to a Dominant, the "against my will" concept is crap-that it is really:

i am too lazy to do it
i want someone who cares about me to ask it
i want to do it but my moral upbringing won't set me free
i am too scared to do it alone
i am too uneducated to know the difference
i don't want to have a conscience about it
i need someone to care enough to accept it
i get off on the "game"

At that point it is---acquiescence--there is no forcing.




I have seen the matter of "force" from both perspectives, and can tell you from experience that much of the claim of desiring it is indeed rhetorical and equates to a grandiose "do me" plot of some form. In other cases, however, I have known it to be true that some who give themselves as slaves understand the nature of the commitment, and will suffer an experience for the greater good of pleasing their keeper. Even as slaves, they may equivocate or outright protest, but they obey to suffer the ordeal ultimately to get through it and beyond it.

Is that a legitimate example of force applied and bent to? Why not? We should remember that force isn't legitimized only when something breaks or comes to a grueling halt. Where it relates to consensual slavery, it is a process of the mind and will that can only be understood when it runs its entire course in the light of real challenge; it is ultimately a matter of dealing with fear.

Or to quote Frank Herbert:

I was face my fear, I will allow it to pass over and through me.
And when it has gone passed I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Is this really just a mantra of acquiescence, or "bending like a reed"? Perhaps, but beyond the semantics, the force that brings the fear and the fear itself is still very real. That is, for those few who truly find themselves in these situations at all.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 3:58:21 PM   
sublace


Posts: 201
Status: offline 		 I sincerely apologize.   I don't sense M.Domiguy's words were intended to be corrosive.  Men do care. 


* "Inevitable" as the sun rising ( no choice, yield, submit to dawn).  

*The decision of passivity or NOT fighting an assailant. A choice to yield - for survival  (best choice to ...live) 

In other words -  Not accepting rape -  simply -   embracing life  ( this is making me sick, but I wish to mitigate and soothe if at all possible) 

"It was out of your hands, inevitable as the sun rising "

Bless anyone who has known such horror and is here today.
You're brave - 

(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:02:22 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

I personally can be forced to do something which is against my will without the kicking, screaming, fighting back etc. It's not because i want to do it either,   
Yes i want Sir to have a vested interest in me and yes i do things i don't want to to keep him happy. However at no point do i really want to do the thing i am being forced into against my will. There is a difference between wanting to do something and wanting to keep someone happy. Two different entities.


quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut
I can see where you are coming from but say someone attempted to rape me and i fought back like a wild banchee kicking and screaming. Thats force and against my will right? So what if someone tries to rape me and i don't fight back, what if i figure thats its going to happen whether i like it or not and just let them to get it over with. Is that not still force and against my will? 


I chose poorly in jumping in on your rape analogy...However, Both of these quotes I believe show a certain mindset.  I believe that you feel that you don't want to put up a "fuss" when it comes to getting raped...It is going to happen after all, why fight it?  If something is brought to you that you find disgusting since there is no other alternative you might as well just do it. Who cares about the personal ramifications?  It's such a fuss.

I am soooo tired of of the "no-limit" sub crappola.  If your Dom told you to go fuck a guy you didn't want to, you would do it. it's not consensual..It is rape, but you wouldn't want to put up a "fuss" because it's going to happen one way or another.

That is the point I was trying to make.  I hope you all can understand this...it really is quite simple.  I was not trying to be humorous in the least.

Misogynistic? Moi?  Hardly.  I expect much from women. I can't stand fucking strippers, and no limit subs. I want a woman that has lived up to her potential. That has views, intelligence and self esteem.  That possesses the ability to discern that not everything that someone tells her is right or right for her.  Out here she seems to becoming a rarity.

and so it goes.

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RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:04:45 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		As a general reply, because there's so much going on here...

I understand "force" to be a measure of force. Many (nearly all, in my experience) who are in a forced-kink dynamic do not engage in it without the "force". It's not the only driving power, just the one needed to push the submissive into the act. Forced-bi, forced-fem, forced-toilet, non-consent or rape play...

These are often (almost always, in my experience) edge play for that couple. Yes, it's true that it is not forced against the will. It is forced with the will, and the little added force of someone saying "do it" makes it happen.

In short, it's not all the force. It's a small needed push. (and to make it all kosher, in physics, a small push would be called "force")

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:17:02 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		This is it people there is no such thing as force.  If you accept it you were not forced.  If you were in fact "forced" call the po-po.

My boss wants me to work tonight.  I didn't want to but if I don't I might be fired.  There is a choice working or getting fired. Personally, I would tell the motherfucker to go jump in the lake.  Work on a wednesday night?  Fuck that noise! There is a Dark Horse brewery tasting at Sheffields tonight...I'm fucking going!

There is no such thing as slavery....You allow it to happen. there is no such thing as being "forced"...You again allow it all to transpire.

Worms, Roxanne worms.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:30:05 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I chose poorly in jumping in on your rape analogy...However, Both of these quotes I believe show a certain mindset.  I believe that you feel that you don't want to put up a "fuss" when it comes to getting raped...It is going to happen after all, why fight it?  If something is brought to you that you find disgusting since there is no other alternative you might as well just do it. Who cares about the personal ramifications?  It's such a fuss.


You did choose poorly opting for rape to further your crusade against no limit subs. As has been said by myself and others here when it comes to rape it isn't a case of it's going to happen so why fight it? Sometimes it is a case of not fighting means the attacker loses interest, the ordeal is over quicker or the physical damage can be lessened.

quote:

I am soooo tired of of the "no-limit" sub crappola.


Then don't have one, eureka, fucking simple !!
Each to their own and i say leave them to it.
I'm happy being a no limit sub.
You're happy not having a no limit sub.
Let it go and move on to your next rampage of ivory towerness.




_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:31:34 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		nm


< Message edited by sirsholly -- 3/25/2009 4:32:31 PM >

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RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 4:38:35 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think there are four separate things here.
First is that you just flat out love being overpowered and used.
Second when you need the top to push you into it because although you are interested in the play, you have a mental block against it.
Third, emotional abuse/manipulation. "If you don't have sex with me then you don't love me and I'll go date your archrival", trite but it still works on teenage girls I know.
Fourth. physical abuse. Walking to your car in a dark parking lot, guy comes out from around his van, shoves a gun against your head and says "Blow me or I'll kill you".

The first is willing, just a kink.

The second a way to learn something new, get over an irrational fear. He's done this to me when I expressed fear of incompetency at doing the new activity. I wanted to do it, I just didn't want to have any sense of failing if I was bad at it the first time. And for me, fear of failure is a huge and paralyzing block. Being bound and forced removed the block since I couldn't fail when I didn't hold any responsibility for choosing it.

Third is reprehensible but difficult to prosecute.

Fourth is criminal.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 5:41:40 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		I find the stuff everyone is talking about here all a whirlwind I am wanting to understand for myself and find what is the truth for me personally. I do agree with MarcEsadrian saying it has to do with dealing with fear.

I do not totally agree with the quote that follows however. It is like a quotient of it, I feel. Fear is not at all a nothing. It is deadly real and keeps us out of harms way more often than not.

Animals never not listen to their fear, they are on alert to their survival at all times.

Fear is real. Yes be with the fear, let it pass through but be present for it while it does, not like it is some foreign entity. It does not go away it evolves into compassion, it evolves. The end result is the person is more connected with themself but the fear didnt drift off into nothing. I feel this is an important differentiation to make.



< Message edited by heartcream -- 3/25/2009 5:49:57 PM >

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RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 6:38:21 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		The OP misses the point entirely. It is called "submission" for a reason. To me that means making a choice or a decision, yes. Personally I do not find it necessary to have the subject kicking and screaming against their will (as kinky as that image is, I admit) to enjoy what I do. Almost every submissive female I know personally would not consent to all of the activities I enjoy because of their personal limits. In fact, I only know of one who will - the woman I am involved with. Therein lies the satisfaction. I don't need to take it from her. That she willingly gives it to me of her own free will - particularly when most others will not - is the greatest satisfaction of all.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 6:48:57 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Again, at that point you were not "forced" to do anything.  Would find yourself getting turned on if I forced you to eat some food that you actually abhor? I think not.

Please people stay on focus....You do have some of the most beautiful eyes on Cm.


Hm...if it were you my domi dear just maybe.  I do see your point.  But it feels like force to me and more importantly...it's hot.  Who knows...sometimes I get those irrational silly woman feelings :P


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Discussion of "forced against your will" - 3/25/2009 7:00:22 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I expect much from women. I can't stand fucking strippers, and no limit subs. I want a woman that has lived up to her potential.

I avoid profiles that say "no limits," but I did date a woman from here (she went with me to my former sub M's wedding in fact) who was a stripper, and now has an M.S. and an MBA.  She paid for a year of grad school by dancing on the pole.  You're really limiting your perceptions if you think such people are losers.

As a more famous example, the fetish queen Mika Tan has a B.S. in biochemistry.  I think you could really stand to take a deep breath the next time you think about women who get paid to be erotic.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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