RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (Full Version)

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TheUtopian -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 5:29:56 PM)

quote:

RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike...




What a crutch-minded, pathetic, dirty-ass, gross habit....


I gotta say --- I support your right to smoke/chew.....but excessive taxation or anything else that causes these fuckers to go up to about twenty-five bucks a pack/can, puts a huge smile on my face [:D]






- R








LDRandAstarte -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 5:33:57 PM)

hmmm that's all, it should be about $3 




LDRandAstarte -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 5:35:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian

quote:

RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike...


What a crutch-minded, pathetic, dirty-ass, gross habit....

I gotta say --- I support your right to smoke/chew.....but excessive taxation or anything else that causes these fuckers to go up to about twenty-five bucks a pack/can, puts a huge smile on my face [:D]

- R



I'll second that!




Sanity -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:03:08 PM)

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - One of President Barack Obama's campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday. The largest increase in tobacco taxes took effect despite Obama's promise not to raise taxes of any kind on families earning under $250,000 or individuals under $200,000.


This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.


To be sure, Obama's tax promises in last year's campaign were most often made in the context of income taxes. Not always.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."


Now in office, Obama, who stopped smoking but has admitted he slips now and then, signed a law raising the tobacco tax nearly 62 cents on a pack of cigarettes, to $1.01. Other tobacco products saw similarly steep increases.

(Full article here).




kittinSol -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:06:14 PM)

If you don't want the tax increase, give up the cancer sticks.




camille65 -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:16:30 PM)

And yet the FDA won't 'approve'  ECigs. I'm ordering some this weekend.




lronitulstahp -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:28:56 PM)

Thanks for that article Sanity....nice pic btw.

i can't believe there are dumbasses trying to link cigarette taxes with income, or other taxes affecting families...

quote:

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.
i hope that people can see when they're being manipulated and used as pawns in the "let's smear President Obama" movement....it's sickening how low people will stoop.[8|]




kittinSol -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:30:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

i hope that people can see when they're being manipulated and used as pawns in the "let's smear President Obama" movement....it's sickening how low people will stoop.[8|]



Completely agreed.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:46:33 PM)

FR:

I see the non-smokers are typing in their usual, "Hell yeah! Tax the shit out of them!"  We just passed a 56 cent tax in my state to fund a new state trauma network.  Of course they refuse to raise the fines on DWI offenders or force motorcyclists to wear helmets, and they are the ones who will be filling up the waiting rooms in these centers.  Our governor is a Democrat, and our legislature is dominated by Democrats.  Now Obama comes along and passes this tax.  As of today, the bottom of the barrel cigarettes here cost $4.00 a pack.  The majority of the people who smoke are lower income, and it shameful to shift the burden to them.  Of course many on this board insist that poor people should have no pleasures in life; they must live in despair and squalor.  Well, that's the compassion Democrats and liberals have for people.  All of this in the middle of one of our worst recessions ever.  Yeah thanks, Democrats.  For those of you that don't smoke; don't worry,  they will get to your vice eventually. 





kittinSol -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 6:53:40 PM)

Nope, I think it's a pity that this kind of increase hits the poor the most: I know that low income individuals tend to smoke more: typically, it's a poor person's pleasure. (On the other hand, it might well convince my stepchildren's mother and her boyfriend to give it up: these two morons literally poison them with that shit and smoke like chimneys, especially at home and in the car. So for that, I'm happy.)

Personally, I'm one of these lucky individuals who is able to have the very occasional cigarette without succumbing to addiction.  I've been getting free American Spirits once a year (they have a special offer: look it up) and it has kept me in cigs for two years now. If I ever have to buy them again, I'll probably won't bother. Not everyone is as lucky as this, though... it's a shame, but this isn't a perfect world.




Crush -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:03:19 PM)

You know...no matter how hard I try, I can't give up smoking.....because I never started!

The problem is that as they raise the tax to raise revenue,  enough people stop smoking to drop the actual revenue.  Standard "unintended consequences" scenario.   Happened with red light cameras too...they were supposed to pay for themselves from the fines they "delivered" but enough people stopped running red lights, so the cameras were turned off for lack of funds.

Static analysis at its finest....




DomImus -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:05:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - One of President Barack Obama's campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday. The largest increase in tobacco taxes took effect despite Obama's promise not to raise taxes of any kind on families earning under $250,000 or individuals under $200,000.


This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.


To be sure, Obama's tax promises in last year's campaign were most often made in the context of income taxes. Not always.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."


Now in office, Obama, who stopped smoking but has admitted he slips now and then, signed a law raising the tobacco tax nearly 62 cents on a pack of cigarettes, to $1.01. Other tobacco products saw similarly steep increases.

(Full article here).



Does anyone really expect a politician to keep these sort of tax promises once they are in office? We all pretty much knew the guy was talking out of both sides of his mouth, didn't we? Taxes, gun control... it really doesn't matter. He lied and the electorate bought it.




aravain -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:06:58 PM)

~FR~

I'm trying to figure out where the lack of representation comes in...




slvemike4u -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:18:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

You know...no matter how hard I try, I can't give up smoking.....because I never started!

The problem is that as they raise the tax to raise revenue,  enough people stop smoking to drop the actual revenue.  Standard "unintended consequences" scenario.   Happened with red light cameras too...they were supposed to pay for themselves from the fines they "delivered" but enough people stopped running red lights, so the cameras were turned off for lack of funds.

Static analysis at its finest....

I fail to see how less smokers can be viewed as an "unintended consequences"scenario.Sure there is less revenue from tax's,but on the other hand there are fewer smokers leading to a healthier populace,greater productivity from workers and less of a strain on health services.




Sanity -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:22:17 PM)


The AP isn't smearing the president in this news article, lronitulstahp, they're just reporting the facts. If Obama didn't want stories like this written about him he should either have been more honest on the campaign trail, or he should work earnestly to keep all of the lofty and solemn promises he made while campaigning.

But blaming the Associated Press for Obama's faults this way seems to me to be lacking in something. We're only about two months in - you would think he could have kept his word this long.

And you know something? This is personal to me, because my mother smokes. She's in her 70's, and she's been trying to quit for half her life, and she can't. She's on a fixed income, and now this so-and-so in the White House...

[sm=anger.gif]

Never mind. I just get so pissed off when I think about it. I really wouldn't mind it if they tried to ban the damn things, but this is insane, raising taxes on the poor and the elderly like this. Pisses me off to no end.


quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Thanks for that article Sanity....nice pic btw.

i can't believe there are dumbasses trying to link cigarette taxes with income, or other taxes affecting families...

quote:

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.
i hope that people can see when they're being manipulated and used as pawns in the "let's smear President Obama" movement....it's sickening how low people will stoop.[8|]





kittinSol -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:23:58 PM)

Apparently though, smokers are cheaper than non-smokers, even taking into account their bigger health needs, because they die younger than non-smokers. There's nothing more costly than an old person who just won't cark it. You've got to love these kinds of rationalisations, right? [X(].




Crush -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

You know...no matter how hard I try, I can't give up smoking.....because I never started!

The problem is that as they raise the tax to raise revenue,  enough people stop smoking to drop the actual revenue.  Standard "unintended consequences" scenario.   Happened with red light cameras too...they were supposed to pay for themselves from the fines they "delivered" but enough people stopped running red lights, so the cameras were turned off for lack of funds.

Static analysis at its finest....

I fail to see how less smokers can be viewed as an "unintended consequences"scenario.Sure there is less revenue from tax's,but on the other hand there are fewer smokers leading to a healthier populace,greater productivity from workers and less of a strain on health services.


I don't deny that it is a good thing...just that gov't agencies plan for taxes at a certain level, yet fail to take into account the drop in taxes as a direct result of their action, which cause people to not engage in certain behaviors.

However, the gov't never met a tax it didn't like and didn't want to keep....ex: the tax cuts that expire next year.....




Vendaval -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:26:12 PM)

Say what?  I don't know anyone that spends that kind of money on lottery tickets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Are these people playing the lottery too.Shameful....


and in her next post kittin will whine about them not having health insurance when they are spending 1000 a month on lottery tickets and smokes.




Sanity -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:26:40 PM)


You know what's really weird is, it seems like it's mostly the people who would like to legalize drugs who back the Obama nicotine tax. [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Apparently though, smokers are cheaper than non-smokers, even taking into account their bigger health needs, because they die younger than non-smokers. There's nothing more costly than an old person who just won't cark it. You've got to love these kinds of rationalisations, right? [X(].




kittinSol -> RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... (4/1/2009 7:30:26 PM)

Really? I don't know. I'm not for legalising drugs and taxing them. I'm for decriminalising their use and for not throwing drug users in jail (more money saved, incidentally, but no increase in revenue from some dubious source - the problem with this approach is that it flies in the face of the Reaganite 'war on drugs'. The cops hate the idea. Strange, no?).




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