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RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 2:25:48 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		King or Dictator?....A little much,don't you think Sanity.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 2:32:45 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
After he's done taxing our cigarettes in order to impose his will on the people, what comes next, mike. We won't give up our freedom all at once, we'll give it up a little at a time, and only kings and popes and dictators believe they have the moral duty or whatever you want to call it to decide for the people what liberties they may or may not enjoy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

King or Dictator?....A little much,don't you think Sanity.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:17:57 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


As an ex smoker who absolutely hates the habit, I still believe that it should be MY decision whether or not to smoke.

Or to eat fattening foods.

Or drink soda pop.

Or have a beer.

Or have any kind of sex I want without a condom.

Or bungee jump.

Or go hang gliding.

Or climb a mountain.

Or go mountain biking.

Or race on the NASCAR circuit.

Or pilot an experimental aircraft.

NOT the federal governments!


quote:

Wow...that little "monologue" reminds me of the funeral scene from "Four Weddings and a Funeral"...so, so sad....

Sanity...my post was in response to Domi....He and i like to JOKE every now and then...

As far as your post....it's still a choice.  The federal government hasn't outlawed ciggies. 


edited to add this:
quote:

Extra taxes are just another form of taking liberty away, of imposing the will of someone who thinks he should have the power of  king or a dictator over us.

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.


< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 4/4/2009 3:23:04 PM >

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:29:46 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


After he's done taxing our cigarettes in order to impose his will on the people, what comes next, mike. We won't give up our freedom all at once, we'll give it up a little at a time, and only kings and popes and dictators believe they have the moral duty or whatever you want to call it to decide for the people what liberties they may or may not enjoy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

King or Dictator?....A little much,don't you think Sanity.

Raising the tax on tobacco is not and never has been analogous to stripping people of their liberties......Why you would make such a major leap is beyond me....unless you have another agenda?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:40:38 PM   
CruelNUnsual


Posts: 624
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.



id be more concerned about taxes, they affect far more innocent people than wiretapping and imaginary losses of civil liberties.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:53:03 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.



id be more concerned about taxes, they affect far more innocent people than wiretapping and imaginary losses of civil liberties.
There really isn't much left to say after this post."imaginary losses of civil liberties"...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CruelNUnsual)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:53:24 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.



id be more concerned about taxes, they affect far more innocent people than wiretapping and imaginary losses of civil liberties.
Cigarette taxes???????  Because that's what we're talking about here. Ask any smoker if they'd prefer cheaper cigs over roving wiretaps or being put on a  watch list  because they once went to a website that contained anti-government sentiments (or even hardcore porn), or attended a peace rally, or married a Muslim.  think besides a staunch few, and they might just be hot under the collar....most would prefer a free America to a cheaper pack of Marlboro Lights.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 3:56:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 4:50:50 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		 
You're not aware that it is unconstitutional for the federal government to regulate our drug use? Educate yourself. This is why Obama has to use prohibitive taxes to usurp our liberties in this regard. For example, Congress recognized that the prohibition of alcohol required a constitutional amendment and so a Constitutional amendment was therefore passed.

Regarding opiates and cocaine:

quote:

In 1914, a watershed event in America's race towards Prohibition occurs: The Harrison Narcotics Act is passed, which severely restricted the sale of opiates and cocaine. As interesting as what was restricted was how it was done. Recognizing that it was unconstitutional for the US government to simply outlaw drug sales/use, they employed a tactic that had been growing in popularity: They called it a tax. Instead of outlawing the drug trade, they required that anybody involved in it had to be registered and pay a tax. However, the tax was not equally applied; doctors and pharmacists were required to pay only a registration fee, while other people were required to pay a prohibitive tax on every sale. As a result, the sale of opiates and cocaine was effectively restricted to medical professionals "in the course of [their] professional practice only." Others, unwilling or unable to pay the tax, would be charged with tax evasion and fined/imprisoned if they sold the restricted drugs. Thus, the federal government was able to tell itself that it was acting within the constitution because it was 'just using its power to tax', which of course they did have a right to do. (The argument against the constitutionality of federal prohibition at the time was primarily one of state's rights and limited federal power; the states could outlaw drugs, the federal government could not.)


Prohibitive taxation on cigarettes is an illegal end run around the constitution and, while it may seem like fun for you and Iron t to try to change the subject to "that damn George Bush" (as usual) George Bush isn't the subject of this thread, Barack Obama's flat out lies during his campaign to not raise taxes on the poor "one dime" is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Raising the tax on tobacco is not and never has been analogous to stripping people of their liberties......Why you would make such a major leap is beyond me....unless you have another agenda?


< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/4/2009 5:14:13 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 5:13:24 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		This tax raise does not meet the bar you yourself have cited...namely prohibitive .As evidence of that I just bought a pack...and tomorrow I shall do so again. Now lets see just how many Americans find this tax so prohibitive that they quit.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 5:20:28 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Sure it does. In this very thread domiguy (who is generally on your side of political things) alluded to the fact that he is quitting because taxes are becoming prohibitive. The total federal taxes on tobacco products are especially punishing to the poor, who make up the majority of smokers.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 5:25:15 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well tell you what Sanity if this is true...lets make sure we all remember to thank him in the end.But and this is a big but....if cigarette sales remain at or around their current levels....than you write him and apologise for characterising a simple little tax hike as prohibitive.Either way the President gets a letter,right?
BTW Domiguy quitting is proof of absolutely nothing other than he had reached his tipping point.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 5:53:09 PM   
CruelNUnsual


Posts: 624
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.



id be more concerned about taxes, they affect far more innocent people than wiretapping and imaginary losses of civil liberties.
Cigarette taxes???????  Because that's what we're talking about here. Ask any smoker if they'd prefer cheaper cigs over roving wiretaps or being put on a  watch list  because they once went to a website that contained anti-government sentiments (or even hardcore porn), or attended a peace rally, or married a Muslim.  think besides a staunch few, and they might just be hot under the collar....most would prefer a free America to a cheaper pack of Marlboro Lights.


That is a proposition you would lose in a heartbeat.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/4/2009 6:46:08 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

in my opinion extra taxes aren't nearly as scary as...ummm....i dunno...say...wiretapping, or removing civil liberties and setting up black ops at will.  And as far as bedroom monitoring goes:  i've been much happier knowing my bj's aren't going to have Pat Robertson pounding on my door with a bunch of angry villagers....His "folks"  are no longer running the government.



id be more concerned about taxes, they affect far more innocent people than wiretapping and imaginary losses of civil liberties.
Cigarette taxes???????  Because that's what we're talking about here. Ask any smoker if they'd prefer cheaper cigs over roving wiretaps or being put on a  watch list  because they once went to a website that contained anti-government sentiments (or even hardcore porn), or attended a peace rally, or married a Muslim.  think besides a staunch few, and they might just be hot under the collar....most would prefer a free America to a cheaper pack of Marlboro Lights.


That is a proposition you would lose in a heartbeat.
Well either you underestimate(or is that "misunderestimate"? ) the average American smoker...or we are in a load of trouble.  Personally, i find apathy much more deadly and toxic than nicotine.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/8/2009 8:41:38 PM   
thegirlincharge


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/1/2006
Status: offline 		"Extra taxes are just another form of taking liberty away, of imposing the will of someone who thinks he should have the power of  king or a dictator over us."

See now that's the point, Sanity,  he is not taking anything away from anyone, he is recognizing the things that can be taxed and in doing so not harm anyone. Smokers can smoke all they want! I smoked 2 packs a day until 6 years ago when I quit...I know the addiction, but I also know that anyone can do without them. I have never seen a smoker quit only because cigarettes were too expensive. Taxes are a necessity and luxuries should be taxed.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/9/2009 5:08:11 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegirlincharge

"Extra taxes are just another form of taking liberty away, of imposing the will of someone who thinks he should have the power of  king or a dictator over us."

See now that's the point, Sanity,  he is not taking anything away from anyone, he is recognizing the things that can be taxed and in doing so not harm anyone. Smokers can smoke all they want! I smoked 2 packs a day until 6 years ago when I quit...I know the addiction, but I also know that anyone can do without them. I have never seen a smoker quit only because cigarettes were too expensive. Taxes are a necessity and luxuries should be taxed.




Go to yahoo, google, about any search engine and use a query like... oh, tax increases 2009. What you get depends on your perspective. The results can be seen as either depressing or aggressive, maybe both. They cover everything from the topic under debate to federal increases on wage earners (the much vaunted 200k and over) woo hoo, but then drift down a laundry list of state, local and federal tax proposals. Gas, groceries, sales, property, income, business, tax cuts that are being allowed to expire, the list goes on and on.

I left New York a couple of weeks ago where people were calling in mad as hell over tax increases in the state budget. Being mad as hell on the internet and calls into radio stations does absolutely nothing however. The rates still raise, you still pay more. There's a quote, I think on the tax heritage site that says Americans spend more on taxes than housing, food, and clothing combined. Think about it.

Be careful about words like luxury in relation to taxes. We as a nation immediately think of tobacco and alcohol when it comes to luxury, but phrasing is floating around in many places where luxury is being abandoned in favor of necessity where lawmakers are starting to try and figure out what you need and what you don't. You need, for example, water. You don't need any other type of liquid, so sodas, milk, orange juice, etc can all be considered for additional taxation. And as anyone who pays a water bill knows, those rates never - at least in my experience, go down.

Tobacco is just the main focus. Like most things political, the real thrust is hidden behind the scapegoat, or the one thing that most will go along with and those in power will tout their special programs to further confuse what's actually being done.

Taxes will go higher on most things. The reason is simple. There are fewer people paying higher bills in a national sense with no form of government actually limiting or controlling spending.

People in general have gotten the message over the last year. Government hasn't.





_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/9/2009 6:55:06 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		My ECigs arrived yesterday. I will no longer be paying tax on tobacco. They take some getting used to (heavier to hold than I expected!) but overall I'm pleased.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/9/2009 7:00:04 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Ecigs? What are they, camille? I've never heard of it before.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/9/2009 7:14:37 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Here is the link to the one I bought:
http://www.njoythefreedom.com/

The set up was a wee bit more complicated than I expected, I had to plug a battery (which looks like the tobacco part of a cigarette) in to charge. The filter section is actually a cartridge, and there is actually no smoke emitted. A small amount of 'vapor' is, but there is no smell and it dissapates (sp, I know) immediately. I can use them indoors if I want although don't feel like explaining to every person that would freak out lol.

The taste is slightly odd, more like a generic brand than my usual Marlboro Light brand but I can adjust. I am still in the experimental stage but I hope it works out.

Funny thing is that the FDA won't approve these (IMO because of the very tobacco tax being discussed here) and I'm not sure how much longer NJoy will be available. There are tons out there, a lot of Chinese brands and European and British ones, I choose NJoy out of all the ones I reviewed.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Yet another cigarette tax hike... - 4/9/2009 7:17:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thanks. It's interesting. I hope it works well for you :-) - do you find that you depend on the gestual/ritual of smoking? In any event, I'd love to try that thing just to see what it's like.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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