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RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 5:50:21 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

America - the country where the ownership of firearms is a right, but healthcare is a privilege.

Something is very wrong there.


Perhaps you would be more comfortable in....ohhh, let's say.... England.

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I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

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Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:05:22 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

define "free people"

are they people with or without a criminal record?

those who obtain them via legal and proper channels, at the local swap-n-trade gun shows (in which you can buy "under the table" bypassing local ordinances/laws) or "straw" shops - street gun dealers for gang members?



it's wonderful that many uphold the "right to bear arms" however i feel there should be stricter gun control laws ...especially where i live.




Laws only work with law abiding citizens. I doubt the criminals near you would be controlled with laws. Gun control is useless because it seems to only deter people who respect the laws.


Criminals don`t manufacture guns.

S&W and Colt do.It is law abiding citizens running companies like those who are making America awash with guns.

There will always be criminals and would-be criminals(passion crimes).

Arming them is the issue.Ultimately,the legally made weapon crosses over from the law abiding citizen into the hands of the criminal.Constricting that flow is up the the LAC.

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/4/2009 8:08:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:18:17 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		That would depend on many things. Small little female, big large dude. What do you suggest an equalizer be?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:27:23 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Double tap is that a kind of dance? Humm probably no methinks

....card game?


A term you will hear used on Law & Order rather than Dancing With the Stars.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:30:25 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

America - the country where the ownership of firearms is a right, but healthcare is a privilege.

Something is very wrong there.


I have got to remember the above; outstanding.

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:35:19 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

America - the country where the ownership of firearms is a right, but healthcare is a privilege.

Something is very wrong there.


Perhaps you would be more comfortable in....ohhh, let's say.... England.


Actually, I think he already is. Or is that a joke that went over my head?


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:36:27 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.


How is putting a bullet in the forehead of a man who's threatening to kill you not an answer?


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:42:53 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That would depend on many things. Small little female, big large dude. What do you suggest an equalizer be?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.


Get out,get w/ the cops, a zillion other things other than "here`s a gun".

If someone wants to take on a gun and it`s awesome liabilities, that`s fine.

Advising someone that a gun will help in a DV situation isn`t an answer and is irresponsible.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:45:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How is putting a bullet in the forehead of a man who's threatening to kill you not an answer?

With all due respect, Panda, that's the kind of statement that scares and angers people, which makes dispassionate discussion difficult. Using a firearm in self-defense to incapacitate an attacker is one thing. Executing him with a head shot, is another. If it's his second try, maybe. Enough is enough. But as a policy??
 
K.
 
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:52:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

define "free people"

are they people with or without a criminal record?

those who obtain them via legal and proper channels, at the local swap-n-trade gun shows (in which you can buy "under the table" bypassing local ordinances/laws) or "straw" shops - street gun dealers for gang members?



it's wonderful that many uphold the "right to bear arms" however i feel there should be stricter gun control laws ...especially where i live.




Laws only work with law abiding citizens. I doubt the criminals near you would be controlled with laws. Gun control is useless because it seems to only deter people who respect the laws.


Criminals don`t manufacture guns.

S&W and Colt do.It is law abiding citizens running companies like those who are making America awash with guns.

There will always be criminals and would-be criminals(passion crimes).

Arming them is the issue.Ultimately,the legally made weapon crosses over from the law abiding citizen into the hands of the criminal.Constricting that flow is up the the LAC.

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.

59, if the person beating their spouse has a domestic charge against them in their history, most states won't legally allow that person to be in possession of a firearm.  That includes, but isn't limited to police officers and military personnel.  A domestic violence charge is essentially the end of a military career.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 8:52:57 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That would depend on many things. Small little female, big large dude. What do you suggest an equalizer be?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.


Get out,get w/ the cops, a zillion other things other than "here`s a gun".

If someone wants to take on a gun and it`s awesome liabilities, that`s fine.

Advising someone that a gun will help in a DV situation isn`t an answer and is irresponsible.


You can't state that as an absolute. Granted, it's not something I would recommend to every woman in an abusive relationship, but for some women, it's a very reasonable suggestion. And for any woman who's actually in the process of getting beaten half to death by her partner, and has a gun available to blow his head off, I think that more often than not it would be an absolutely capital idea to do exactly that. Women who are being threatened with imminent death frequently do not have the opportunity to get out or call the police. They often have seconds to live unless they come up with something all on their own.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:00:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		People act as if the gun is a magic button.

Not everyone has the gumption to shot/kill and then the gun gets taken and the vic is shot or pistol whipped,etc.

She can`t walk around with it in her hand all day as if was ass hole repellent.

Everyone`s got to sleep at some point.

Get out and get help.That`s the advise to give vulnerable people.Not get a gun.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/4/2009 9:02:14 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:01:46 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How is putting a bullet in the forehead of a man who's threatening to kill you not an answer?

With all due respect, Panda, that's the kind of statement that scares and angers people, which makes dispassionate discussion difficult. Using a firearm in self-defense to incapacitate an attacker is one thing. Executing him with a head shot, is another. If it's his second try, maybe. Enough is enough. But as a policy??



Maybe we're interpreting the hypothetical differently, but my understanding is that he's talking about a woman who's being beaten right now and threatened with imminent death. I'll admit that the way I phrased it was dramatic, but I don't know of any firearms instructor who would advise anyone in that situation to do anything but shoot to kill. The way i was taught by police firearms instructors was that any situation that requires you to use a firearm to defend yourself should be considered a shoot-to-kill situation. Harsh, yes, but shooting to wound can place the victim at greater risk than she was in before she drew her weapon.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:08:36 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

People act as if the gun is a magic button.

Not everyone has the gumption to shot/kill and then the gun gets taken and the vic is shot or pistol whipped,etc.

She can`t walk around with in her hand all day as if was ass hole repellent.

Everyone`s got to sleep at some point.

Get out and get help.That`s the advise to give vulnerable people.Not get a gun.


I think we're barking up different trees, Owner. As i said to Kirata, my understanding of the hypothetical is that we're specifically talking about a woman who's being beaten and whose life is in immediate danger. My answer reflects that interpretation. If we're speaking in more general terms, about a woman who's in an abusive relationship and wants to carry a gun for extra security, that's a little different. As i said, it's certainly not something I'd universally suggest to every woman. In my understanding of the hypothetical, the gun is not a "magic button," but an absolute last resort for a woman who may have only seconds to live unless she kills her attacker.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:11:27 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		In many cases, the woman possessing a firearm after she's left, isn't a terrible idea.  You guys have no idea of how often she'll be stalked or threatened even after she's out of the situation.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:14:15 PM   
allyC


Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		(FR) If someone wants to kill another person, they'll do it.  Enough people are stabbed, strangled, or beaten to death every year to prove it.   An automobile is a two ton weapon.  It kills and injures so many people a year it is absolutely ridiculous and yet 16 year olds can just jump behind the wheel after a short class and test and whee!  They're off!  Where is the public outcry about vehicles?  Should we ban them too 'cause let's face it - they kill a LOT more people than guns do due to careless use. The right to bear arms is one that is expected to already exist for Americans.  The constitution states that it shall not be infringed.   It is pretty simple to me.  Our forefathers understood how tyranny and oppression worked.  They lived through it.  They decided that they didn't want to form a nation that would be ripe for that sort of thing and so they provided that the right to bear arms should not be infringed..  If guns are made illegal, than only outlaws will have guns with the exception of the military and  law enforcement but strangely enough - being in the military or being a law enforcement officer doesn't magically make you a good person either.  So why should I, as a law abiding citizen, allow my country to render me defenseless against my government?  Against my law enforcement officers?  News flash - cops and soldiers commit crimes too.   I agree that as a self defense weapon in the home, a shotgun is your best bet.  But what about when I am grocery shopping and walking to my car?  I've been robbed in that kind of situation... funny thing.  I was robbed by a guy who bought his gun illegally and used it to take what belonged to me (and at that point, I feared for my life). Never again will I not at least have the opportunity to defend myself when I believe my life is in danger.  It took me being in a life threatening situation three times before I realized that the guns weren't evil - the people using them were (and yup, one of 'em was a cop)  Some of the worst crime rates in this country exist in states and cities with the strictest gun control laws.  If you render people defenseless, they become easy prey, period.   I'd rather not be. Well wishes, Cav's ally 

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:20:07 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Maybe we're interpreting the hypothetical differently, but...

Okay. I took what you said more as an offhand comment, without correctly tying it to the specific details of that particular hypothetical.
 
K.
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:21:35 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Okay so as promised I have returned and have opinions to cast.

Owner59 Thanks for that it is important to express the proper emotions when posting.

So lets just jump right in.

So CNN says that New Orleans has the Highest Crime Rate in a relatively recent survey, I am sure we can all agree that nothing has really changed there recently.

Another Poll shows most gun crime related statistics are designed to keep gun sales down for anger related crimes (Here's a little PDF file you can print out Although the source of the pamphlet wasn't listed the "Factoids" all checked out when researched)

My Point?

The people who commit crimes with fire arms are rarely the ones who have obtained them legally and by the laws already in place.

Each time a law is changed the only people the chang in law effects is someone who is already law abiding.

My Question.... If a Criminal can go to Mexico and get an AK-47 for less than $300 and make it back to America to commit a crime, with a gun that was manufactured in America but shipped to Mexico where the laws while on paper are strict the reality of getting a gun in Mexico is rather easy. Oddly enough we don't hear about this on the news because it isn't really happening sure one or two isolated insidents but on the whole with Hundreds of Thousands if not millions of illegal guns have found their way to Mexico since 1987.

No we don't need to go to Mexico there are plenty of illegal guns on the streets RIGHT NOW that our Police and Military are unable to Track, Stop, or even slow down right now which is where the majority of firearm crime is comeing from. (Again it's from 1995 I was unable to find something more Recent)

Sure the registered firearm still present crime but not close to the amount of stollen or illegally purchased ones.

The Laws cannot protect you from those who do not abide by the law.

My Fire Arms are registered.
They are Secured
I am Papered (Permits are in order for Carry)
I try to keep up with the ever changing laws on fire arms*

*This is one of the giggest problems that I see with Fire Arm Laws. I as a Law abiding citizen offten end up unknowingly breaking the law because the law keeps changing. One county I can Carry with a CCW with the loaded gun on the dash with the ssafety on, another requires me to keep the gun unloaded and in plain sight, another requires me to put the gun in my trunk and in a lockable gun case with Orange tag denoting that the fire arm is loaded of not.

While I am trying to be a good citizen the Jack ass with the stolen 9mm just drove past me while I am getting the 3rd degree from a Highway patrolman who thinks the fact that I am "So law abiding" that it's a little "Suspicious".

Criminals break the law so making laws that only really affect the law abiding is STUPID. Do you honestly think that a criminal is gunna see that it is now illegal to carry his favorite hand gun and give up crime and go work at a gas station?

Seriously there will come a time in everyones life when they are forced to think about their own safety and they will make a decision. MAKE IT FOR YOURSELF I am not in need of your rational for my decisions.

I Carry. I'm a Law Abiding Citizen. Why are you unable to see that there is a difference between my gun and another and that is the person who holds that gun.

Steel

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(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:22:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

Never again will I not at least have the opportunity to defend myself when I believe my life is in danger.  It took me being in a life threatening situation three times before I realized that the guns weren't evil...

A friend of mine used to joke that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.
 
K.
 
 

(in reply to allyC)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:24:12 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		The automobile analogy really doesn't work.....yet you guys keep dragging that tired line out.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 60
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